Recruitment for British army soars in Republic of Ireland

FrancieBrady · 13-01-2017 01:34PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so you can use it to have another dig at the british?

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

How many Mormons are there? How many Hinduism or Sikh's?

How many are captains in the Royal navy?

Honestly I'm trying to understand where you are going with this line of questioning.

Why all the antagonism to a reasonable question?
The last atrocity in Britain was carried out by British radicalised Muslims.

FrancieBrady · 13-01-2017 01:36PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

it isn't look over there, it is cop the **** on.

nationality/citizenship is a factor in a number of jobs, not just military. it's like asking why someone would move the US when they have no chance of being president.

Sorry Fred, that wouldn't necessarily stop you going to the US. Might stop you becoming a politician there though.

steddyeddy · 13-01-2017 01:37PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

like these

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_O%27Connell_(Irish_republican)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liam_Quinn

Irish citizens have been the biggest threat to British civilians over the last fifty years.

And vice versa Fred. We have a shared history of bloodshed.

muddypaws · 13-01-2017 02:02PM

The two young men that I know that joined the BA so that they could become paramedics here, couldn't join the medical corps over there, they have had to enlist in the infantry and then in 3 years I think it is, they can switch. That has nothing to do with them not being considered loyal, but rather that the BA can't do a CRB check on someone who hasn't lived in the UK for a certain length of time. Any UK citizen that wants to be in the medical corp also has to have a CRB check, which they wouldn't need to join other branches of the military over there. Its because of the role they will be in, and whether they could be a danger to people they may need to treat, not purely from a terrorism point of view, but for the same reason that foster carers, school teachers etc have to be CRB checked, they will be in charge of vulnerable people.

Jawgap · 13-01-2017 02:30PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That has nothing to do with it, frankly.

It has everything to do with it

If the question is why are Paddies signing up to go fight in the BA then the answer is "because they want to soldier" and the fact that the Brits go places and do things the DF don't is appealing because, to them, its exciting and they don't process risk the way older people do.

Timberrrrrrrr · 13-01-2017 02:40PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why all the antagonism to a reasonable question?
The last atrocity in Britain was carried out by British radicalised Muslims.

And previous to that it was the Irish yet Irish people are still allowed to join the BA as are Muslims. Again where is your line if questioning going as to how many Muslim.pilots there are in the RAF?

FrancieBrady · 13-01-2017 02:43PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And previous to that it was the Irish yet Irish people are still allowed to join the BA as are Muslims. Again where is your line if questioning going as to how many Muslim.pilots there are in the RAF?

I asked a question, if you don't know the answer, that is fine. It is a perfectly legitimate question I don't have to answer to you for asking, thank you very much.

FrancieBrady · 13-01-2017 02:44PM

Jawgap wrote: »

It has everything to do with it

If the question is why are Paddies signing up to go fight in the BA then the answer is "because they want to soldier" and the fact that the Brits go places and do things the DF don't is appealing because, to them, its exciting and they don't process risk the way older people do.

It hasn't really, it is quite patronising in fact and a generalisation.

Timberrrrrrrr · 13-01-2017 02:45PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I asked a question, if you don't know the answer, that is fine. It is a perfectly legitimate question I don't have to answer to you for asking, thank you very much.

So you have no reason for asking the question (seeing as you refuse to elaborate what the question has to do with the topic at hand) and just decided to derail the thread.

Jawgap · 13-01-2017 02:48PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I asked a question, if you don't know the answer, that is fine. It is a perfectly legitimate question I don't have to answer to you for asking, thank you very much.

In 2008 there was about 1 Muslim in the RAF for every 6 in the Army, if the ratio is substantially the same, then its about 60 to 70......

......it is also still completely irrelevant.

To paraphrase "Chaos" Mattis at the Senate confirmation hearing yesterday, it's not who, what or how you worship, it's your lethality that's important

.....

......at the least to the people you work with, others outside the organisation may care more about such irrelevant trivialities.

FrancieBrady · 13-01-2017 02:51PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So you have no reason for asking the question (seeing as you refuse to elaborate what the question has to do with the topic at hand) and just decided to derail the thread.

It has to do with why there is a bar on becoming a pilot and that has to do with recruitment - the topic of the thread.

ohnonotgmail · 13-01-2017 02:55PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It has to do with why there is a bar on becoming a pilot and that has to do with recruitment - the topic of the thread.

do you think there is a bar on muslims becoming pilots??

FrancieBrady · 13-01-2017 02:56PM

Jawgap wrote: »

In 2008 there was about 1 Muslim in the RAF for every 6 in the Army, if the ratio is substantially the same, then its about 60 to 70......

......it is also still completely irrelevant.

Have you a link to that information?

To paraphrase "Chaos" Mattis at the Senate confirmation hearing yesterday, it's not who, what or how you worship, it's your lethality that's important .....

......at the least to the people you work with, others outside the organisation may care more about such irrelevant trivialities.

This makes absolute sense to me too,
'it's not where you come from, it's your lethality that's important'.

There is a bar on attaining at least one position because of 'where you come from, or don't come from' and in light of the fact that it is British citizens that have so far proven most lethal to Britain, the 'security' reason for it's existence doesn't seem to stack up.

Timberrrrrrrr · 13-01-2017 02:57PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It has to do with why there is a bar on becoming a pilot and that has to do with recruitment - the topic of the thread.

Love to see your evidence for this, also is the ban in place in the BACK or the RAF? Is it just Muslims? Have you evidence that there are no Muslim pilots in either organisation?

Jawgap · 13-01-2017 02:57PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It has to do with why there is a bar on becoming a pilot and that has to do with recruitment - the topic of the thread.

It has nothing to do becoming a pilot or achieving high rank - in the last few years at least one RAF Group Captain (equivalent to an army colonel) and one RN Vice Admiral has been of the Muslim faith.....

FrancieBrady · 13-01-2017 02:58PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Love to see your evidence for this, also is the ban in place in the BACK or the RAF? Is it just Muslims? Have you evidence that there are no Muslim pilots in either organisation?

I suggest you read the thread because your lack of awareness of what we are actually discussing is derailing the conversation.
I never claimed there was a 'bar on Muslims' becoming pilots.

Jawgap · 13-01-2017 03:00PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Have you a link to that information?

This makes absolute sense to me too,
'it's not where you come from, it's your lethality that's important'.

There is a bar on attaining at least one position because of 'where you come from, or don't come from' and in light of the fact that it is British citizens that have so far proven most lethal to Britain, the 'security' reason for it's existence doesn't seem to stack up.

Google is your friend, learn to do research instead of just swallowing propaganda

Maybe start with the literature published by the Armed Forces Muslim Association as part of their conferences?

FrancieBrady · 13-01-2017 03:03PM

Jawgap wrote: »

It has nothing to do becoming a pilot or achieving high rank - in the last few years at least one RAF Group Captain (equivalent to an army colonel) and one RN Vice Admiral has been of the Muslim faith.....

Is this wrong, it was posted earlier and started this discussion?

To become a pilot - You must be a citizen of the United Kingdom or holder of dual UK/ other nationality.

Whether or not you were born in the United Kingdom, you should have resided there for the 5 years immediately preceding your application.

I am aware there are Muslims in the army, I asked how many were pilots.

Jawgap · 13-01-2017 03:08PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is this wrong, it was posted earlier and started this discussion?

I am aware there are Muslims in the army, I asked how many were pilots.

Your citizenship is important, as is your residency - not your religion.

Plus 'define' pilot? The BA only has rotary wing pilots - the RAF and RN have both fixed and rotary wing pilots - but not everyone who has their wings will be operational.

Plus, pilots are just glorified drivers with big watches - it's the signals and electronics guys and gals at the back of the bus who get to play with the cool gear.

If you genned yourself up you'd realise a more prescient question would be how many air crew, EWOs, SIGINT and ISTAR related personnel possess or don't possess a particular irrelevant quality you seem hung up on

ohnonotgmail · 13-01-2017 03:09PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is this wrong, it was posted earlier and started this discussion?

I am aware there are Muslims in the army, I asked how many were pilots.

and you still havent explained why you think that is in any way relevant. The armed forces in the UK are subject to the same equality legislation as every other body.

FrancieBrady · 13-01-2017 03:11PM

Jawgap wrote: »

Your citizenship is important, as is your residency - not your religion.

Plus 'define' pilot? The BA only has rotary wing pilots - the RAF and RN have both fixed and rotary wing pilots - but not everyone who has their wings will be operational.

Plus, pilots are just glorified drivers with big watches - it's the signals and electronics guys and gals at the back of the bus who get to play with the cool gear.

If you genned yourself up you'd realise a more prescient question would be how many air crew, EWOs, SIGINT and ISTAR related personnel possess or don't possess a particular irrelevant quality you seem hung up on

Why is citizenship important in your view?

ohnonotgmail · 13-01-2017 03:14PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why is citizenship important in your view?

security. what other reason are you imagining? the same reason that non-citizens cant become officers in military intelligence.

Jawgap · 13-01-2017 03:15PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why is citizenship important in your view?

Because they said so.

Look, it's their pitch, their game and their rules - if someone doesn't like it they don't have to apply.

I'm not sure why people would think that an army - any army - should just throw its doors open to all comers.

Anyway, you were making an issue out of religion and now you've realised how stupid that was you're now trying to subtlety shift over to citizenship.....

......if you do apply deffo don't apply for the SRR - you'd need to be a lot sneaker than that for those guys

FrancieBrady · 13-01-2017 03:17PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and you still havent explained why you think that is in any way relevant. The armed forces in the UK are subject to the same equality legislation as every other body.

Why is the 'nationality' of a pilot important specifically?

If it is a security issue it is an insulting and discriminatory one, given that it is British citizens themselves that have represented the most lethal threat to Britain in 50 years.

My opinion on that (which I think I am entitled to on a discussion forum) is that I am appalled that self respecting person would be in an organisation that (as a pilot or soldier) would expect them to ultimately give their lives for a state that doesn't trust them for certain posts.

I am sorry if you don't like that opinion, but there you go.

A Little Pony · 13-01-2017 03:18PM

Deleted User wrote: »

OxfordColours wrote: »

Are you saying you are some sort of truly impartial man with the abilty to take in the history without any sort of bias?

I'm harsh on imperialism and empire building, which Britain was undeniably involved in. If you read maryishere's past posts on these topics you'll find she is anything but, especially where the Brits are involved.

Nothing wrong with Empire. Some of the greatest civilizations in history had Empires. The Roman Empire, the Macedonian Empire, The Mongol Empire and so on.

Jawgap · 13-01-2017 03:20PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why is the 'nationality' of a pilot important specifically?

If it is a security issue it is an insulting and discriminatory one, given that it is British citizens themselves that have represented the most lethal threat to Britain in 50 years.

My opinion on that (which I think I am entitled to on a discussion forum) is that I am appalled that self respecting person would be in an organisation that (as a pilot or soldier) would expect them to ultimately give their lives for a state that doesn't trust them for certain posts.

I am sorry if you don't like that opinion, but there you go.

Nationality is different to citizenship - I'm an Irish national, but I'm a dual US/Irish citizen - I'll always be an Irish national, I'll never be a US national.

ohnonotgmail · 13-01-2017 03:20PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why is the 'nationality' of a pilot important specifically?

If it is a security issue it is an insulting and discriminatory one, given that it is British citizens themselves that have represented the most lethal threat to Britain in 50 years.

My opinion on that (which I think I am entitled to on a discussion forum) is that I am appalled that self respecting person would be in an organisation that (as a pilot or soldier) would expect them to ultimately give their lives for a state that doesn't trust them for certain posts.

I am sorry if you don't like that opinion, but there you go.

you think it is insulting and discriminatory for a country to trust it's own citizens above the citizens of another country? You really go out of your way in your hatred of the british.

FrancieBrady · 13-01-2017 03:22PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Nothing wrong with Empire. Some of the greatest civilizations in history had Empires. The Roman Empire, the Macedonian Empire, The Mongol Empire and so on.

Unless you are being oppressed by them of course and your resources are being plundered! Oh I forgot, we are in your opinion, supposed to be grateful for that! :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady · 13-01-2017 03:23PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you think it is insulting and discriminatory for a country to trust it's own citizens above the citizens of another country? You really go out of your way in your hatred of the british.

I do, if you expect me to freaking die for you! :rolleyes:

I don't hate a living soul tbh.

A Little Pony · 13-01-2017 03:27PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Nothing wrong with Empire. Some of the greatest civilizations in history had Empires. The Roman Empire, the Macedonian Empire, The Mongol Empire and so on.

Unless you are being oppressed by them of course and your resources are being plundered! Oh I forgot, we are in your opinion, supposed to be grateful for that! :rolleyes:

Why else do you think America is always in the Middle East? It is an Empire, expanding all the time to gain influence over its subjects.

Recruitment for British army soars in Republic of Ireland

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