How come Tinder is so difficult?

Foxtrol · 08-12-2016 05:07PM

Would the posters who are pretty much saying to guys who worry about their height to ‘get over it’ say similar to women who wear makeup/fake hair/heels/underwear that hide flaws they perceive themselves to have?

One eyed Jack · 08-12-2016 05:16PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Would the posters who are pretty much saying to guys who worry about their height to ‘get over it’ say similar to women who wear makeup/fake hair/heels/underwear that hide flaws they perceive themselves to have?

Yes?

What a strange question.

SarahMollie · 08-12-2016 05:18PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Would the posters who are pretty much saying to guys who worry about their height to ‘get over it’ say similar to women who wear makeup/fake hair/heels/underwear that hide flaws they perceive themselves to have?

To be fair, what I'm saying is more in line with "don't let it define you".

However, they were posting on here, saying the world was against them etc etc and sounding embittered, then yes.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 08-12-2016 05:21PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Would the posters who are pretty much saying to guys who worry about their height to ‘get over it’ say similar to women who wear makeup/fake hair/heels/underwear that hide flaws they perceive themselves to have?

At the end of the day there is absolutely nothing you can do about your height, so worrying about it is at best useless.

Being short puts a man at a disadvantage, more so in some settings than others. Being hung up on your height to the point where you're assuming everyone is judging you by it, getting bitter towards women, resentful that you're missing out and if only that one thing was different everything would fall into place, preoccupied with other mens' success with women... that's a far bigger problem. And it's an attitude which is very quickly noticed. For some posters here I'd hazard that they've sometimes been rejected because of the attitude and attributed it to the height; it's a vicious cycle.

"Just chill out about it" is far easier said than done, sure, but it's not bad advice.

08-12-2016 05:21PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Would the posters who are pretty much saying to guys who worry about their height to ‘get over it’ say similar to women who wear makeup/fake hair/heels/underwear that hide flaws they perceive themselves to have?

What's the alternative to getting over it?

Sure, go ahead and let your perceptions dominate your life and ruin your self esteem and keep you from being happy, you're on to something there?

Work with what you have, don't waste time on what you don't have. It's not revolutionary to tell people to be proactive in making their lives better.

Salrub · 08-12-2016 05:25PM

Amirah Alive Sediment wrote: »

I don't mean to sound patronising but it is a big positive that you have that degree of self awareness about the situation.

Six months is not long out from a break up, I'm sure we're all familiar with how slow and difficult it can be to get the confidence back after that. I think you come across as a sound man, you're obviously smart, and you don't have a bitter or angry attitude to women. Plus you're in your thirties now, height and hair are going to be far less important than the last time you were on the dating scene.

I'd say you'll be grand, chin up!

Thanks for the pep up. Yeah like I said I know that the mindset has to change which I think I'm getting there slowly but surely. Like you said I never had a bitter attitude towards women, if anything I'd be nervous around them. It's funny, when my ex broke up she said it was all my fault and that when we had agreement's she didn't like me "shouting" at her. Now I know in the heat of moment I can raise my voice and say things but she was well able to give it back and I'm only human so sometimes I did get annoyed by her. Anyway I suppose I'm still beating myself over things I did wrong in the past and it's just I'm anxious about I mightn't get to the same level I had with her with anyone again hence my worries over my age, height, looks etc. But I try and tell myself everyday that it will happen again someday for me again and that I can have what I had in the past or even better

The Talking Bread · 08-12-2016 05:29PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Would the posters who are pretty much saying to guys who worry about their height to ‘get over it’ say similar to women who wear makeup/fake hair/heels/underwear that hide flaws they perceive themselves to have?

noone is saying to "get over it". You are far over simplifying what the advice that was furnished is.

The poster seems only too happy to accept this advice so what is it to you to criticise. And I am glad to see he is claiming he has learnt a lot from advice here.

And women that hide such flaws (for reasons other than fashion, hobby, etc) by wearing makeup are in a way taking what they feel is a proactive step to overcome certain insecurities and gain a bit of confidence socially.

Of course you can reassure them but you can't tell them not to wear makeup. But you can certainly advise someone who is not doing anything proactive to overcome their paronoid mentality how to deal with it. Noone told him to forget about his height.

It is a far better way than accepting your flaws in a negative sense and going into a depressive and no hope attitude when it comes to socialising.

zulutango · 08-12-2016 05:31PM

Salrub wrote:

Thanks for the pep up. Yeah like I said I know that the mindset has to change which I think I'm getting there slowly but surely. Like you said I never had a bitter attitude towards women, if anything I'd be nervous around them. It's funny, when my ex broke up she said it was all my fault and that when we had agreement's she didn't like me "shouting" at her. Now I know in the heat of moment I can raise my voice and say things but she was well able to give it back and I'm only human so sometimes I did get annoyed by her. Anyway I suppose I'm still beating myself over things I did wrong in the past and it's just I'm anxious about I mightn't get to the same level I had with her with anyone again hence my worries over my age, height, looks etc. But I try and tell myself everyday that it will happen again someday for me again and that I can have what I had in the past or even better

Man, you gotta live your own life for yourself. Go out and do things you enjoy and don't depend on a woman or anybody else for happiness. The great irony is that she'll come along if you don't look for her and just concentrate on living your own life.

Foxtrol · 08-12-2016 05:36PM

SarahMollie wrote: »

To be fair, what I'm saying is more in line with "don't let it define you".

However, they were posting on here, saying the world was against them etc etc and sounding embittered, then yes.

Amirah Alive Sediment wrote: »

At the end of the day there is absolutely nothing you can do about your height, so worrying about it is at best useless.

Being short puts a man at a disadvantage, more so in some settings than others. Being hung up on your height to the point where you're assuming everyone is judging you by it, getting bitter towards women, resentful that you're missing out and if only that one thing was different everything would fall into place, preoccupied with other mens' success with women... that's a far bigger problem. And it's an attitude which is very quickly noticed. For some posters here I'd hazard that they've sometimes been rejected because of the attitude and attributed it to the height; it's a vicious cycle.

"Just chill out about it" is far easier said than done, sure, but it's not bad advice.

Candie wrote: »

What's the alternative to getting over it?

Sure, go ahead and let your perceptions dominate your life and ruin your self esteem and keep you from being happy, you're on to something there?

Work with what you have, don't waste time on what you don't have. It's not revolutionary to tell people to be proactive in making their lives better.

I understand saying not to let height define you but many women let makeup define them and I have found from having this conversation before that there is a deafening silence when it comes to making similar harsh but fair comments towards them.

I know 4 women who I have been close to who refuse to be seen without makeup and others who I know who complain about not getting enough sleep yet feel like they have to get up 1.5 hours before they leave to get themselves ready for work.

I just don’t see the same level of ‘get over it’ when it comes to using makeup as a crutch, it seems like it’s a taboo subject amongst women to speak against.

08-12-2016 05:43PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

I understand saying not to let height define you but many women let makeup define them and I have found from having this conversation before that there is a deafening silence when it comes to making similar harsh but fair comments towards them.

I know 4 women who I have been close to who refuse to be seen without makeup and others who I know who complain about not getting enough sleep yet feel like they have to get up 1.5 hours before they leave to get themselves ready for work.

I just don’t see the same level of ‘get over it’ when it comes to using makeup as a crutch, it seems like it’s a taboo subject amongst women to speak against.

It's kind of like an arms race though - if only 5% of women wore make up regularly, the other 95% would probably feel content about how they look without make-up. But when 95% plus of women wear it most of the time, the average woman *actually does* become objectivelly more attractive and so each women feels they can't not wear it or they will become *relatively* unattractive in relation to the other girls. Women have been embellishing their apperance with make-up of sorts for thousands of years but it's use does seem to have exploded in the last decade and become seriously advanced - a predictable result of course of the existence of social media and smartphones with cameras. Life must be a brutal pressure-cooker for teenagers these days - how must an unattractive teenage girl feel looking at her good-looking peer (who always would have had a good life anyway, social media existing or not) putting up a really attractive photo of herself, getting hundreds of likes and comments from lads and girls when she only gets maybe 10 or 20 likes - brutal I'm sure.

The Talking Bread · 08-12-2016 05:44PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

I understand saying not to let height define you but many women let makeup define them and I have found from having this conversation before that there is a deafening silence when it comes to making similar harsh but fair comments towards them.

I know 4 women who I have been close to who refuse to be seen without makeup and others who I know who complain about not getting enough sleep yet feel like they have to get up 1.5 hours before they leave to get themselves ready for work.

I just don’t see the same level of ‘get over it’ when it comes to using makeup as a crutch, it seems like it’s a taboo subject amongst women to speak against.

But do you not see in their mind they are taking proactive steps to "get over their flaws".
It is there way of handling it. There way of building self esteem. Maybe getting no sleep to play with their face for 90 minutes before work is unhealthy but that is taking it to the extreme and you have happened to have met a very small minority in this respect.

At the end of the day wearing makeup does you no physical harm but being paranoid and moping and not confident does a lot more.

zulutango · 08-12-2016 05:45PM

The women here say that make-up is to make them look nicer but it's not because they're insecure about their looks. It's a remarkable twist of logic.

Some have claimed it's a form of artistic expression, which is probably true for some, but I doubt it's true for the majority.

It's almost as if stubbornness is taking over, and getting in the way of honest discussion. Despite saying it's about insecurity in a roundabout way, they can't actually admit that it's about insecurity. Because then they'd be (a) admitting to insecurity when obviously they are perfect and (b) wrong.

Foxtrol · 08-12-2016 05:46PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

noone is saying to "get over it". You are far over simplifying what the advice that was furnished is.

The poster seems only too happy to accept this advice so what is it to you to criticise. And I am glad to see he is claiming he has learnt a lot from advice here.

And women that hide such flaws (for reasons other than fashion, hobby, etc) by wearing makeup are in a way taking what they feel is a proactive step to overcome certain insecurities and gain a bit of confidence socially.

Of course you can reassure them but you can't tell them not to wear makeup. But you can certainly advise someone who is not doing anything proactive to overcome their paronoid mentality how to deal with it. Noone told him to forget about his height.

It is a far better way than accepting your flaws in a negative sense and going into a depressive and no hope attitude when it comes to socialising.

Of course shortening paragraphs of responses to three words would over simplify it and I’m glad the poster is accepting the advice as I agree with it.

What I’m pointing out is the hypocrisy of saying this is good advice for a shorter guy but then claiming there’s no issue with someone burying their insecurity under a mountain of foundation. One is actually resolving an issue while the other is just pushing it down.

zulutango · 08-12-2016 05:46PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

But do you not see in their mind they are taking proactive steps to "get over their flaws".
It is there way of handling it. There way of building self esteem. Maybe getting no sleep to play with their face for 90 minutes before work is unhealthy but that is taking it to the extreme and you have happened to have met a very small minority in this respect.

At the end of the day wearing makeup does you no physical harm but being paranoid and moping and not confident does a lot more.

So, you're saying it is linked to insecurity about their looks so? Finally ..

Danzy · 08-12-2016 05:49PM

There are lots of legends I think about Tinder, the disappointment seems to be on both sides.

As a person in a loving relationship, in their late 30s, myself and the lads after pint no. 9 have often listened with mouth agape at the endless casual sex it is meant to offer. lol

Believe half of what you see and even less of what you hear.

The Talking Bread · 08-12-2016 05:52PM

zulutango wrote: »

The women here say that make-up is to make them look nicer but it's not because they're insecure about their looks. It's a remarkable twist of logic.

Some have claimed it's a form of artistic expression, which is probably true for some, but I doubt it's true for the majority.

It's almost as if stubbornness is taking over, and getting in the way of honest discussion. Despite saying it's about insecurity in a roundabout way, they can't actually admit that it's about insecurity. Because then they'd be (a) admitting to insecurity when obviously they are perfect and (b) wrong.

Again a completely generalised personal opinion. And there is noone who said it is true for the majority. Everyone has insecurities and skin ageing is one for women. Much like height is for some of the male posters here.

Makeup is a fashion accessory as much as a skin concealor. Do you think Nicole Scherzinger, Amber Heard, Amelia Clarke are extremely insecure. They wear plenty of different styles of make up to suit the occassion, clothing attire, etc.

They look fantastic without it but still wear it almost every public outing.

The Talking Bread · 08-12-2016 05:54PM

zulutango wrote: »

So, you're saying it is linked to insecurity about their looks so? Finally ..

noone said it isn't for a percentage of women????????????? Find one post where anyone said it is merely or wholly a fashion accessory for every girl.

Makeup has been around for centuries.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 08-12-2016 05:58PM

zulutango wrote: »

So, you're saying it is linked to insecurity about their looks so? Finally ..

When you're buying clothes, is it literally the first thing you see, or do you make some sort of choice based on the appearance of the clothes? Getting a haircut, do you give any instructions or not even look at it? I'd say liking to wear a bit of makeup is insecure to the same extent.

The hostility that comes up in the make up conversation, and the peculiar insistence that in relation to make up making a moderate effort to improve your appearance as you see it means you're insecure... I can see how that leads to defensiveness.

Of course it can be a sign of insecurity. Of course it can be taken to damaging extremes. But that's not true in the majority of cases. It's something people do because they enjoy or because like most adults who leave the house they try and look their best. If you want to shoehorn the word insecurity into that it's up to you.

Foxtrol · 08-12-2016 05:58PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Again a completely generalised personal opinion. And there is noone who said it is true for the majority. Everyone has insecurities and skin ageing is one for women. Much like height is for some of the male posters here.

Makeup is a fashion accessory as much as a skin concealor. Do you think Nicole Scherzinger, Amber Heard, Amelia Clarke are extremely insecure. They wear plenty of different styles of make up to suit the occassion, clothing attire, etc.

They look fantastic without it but still wear it almost every public outing.

Then why cant we have an honest open discussion about makeup like we can about height? Once it is mentioned people come out of the woodwork in defense of the right to wear makeup.

On famous people you could say the exact same about most male actors who are made to appear taller in movies.

zulutango · 08-12-2016 06:00PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Again a completely generalised personal opinion. And there is noone who said it is true for the majority. Everyone has insecurities and skin ageing is one for women. Much like height is for some of the male posters here.

Makeup is a fashion accessory as much as a skin concealor. Do you think Nicole Scherzinger, Amber Heard, Amelia Clarke are extremely insecure. They wear plenty of different styles of make up to suit the occassion, clothing attire, etc.

They look fantastic without it but still wear it almost every public outing.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. It's about insecurity. You seem to agree.

Goya · 08-12-2016 06:00PM

zulutango wrote: »

The women here say that make-up is to make them look nicer but it's not because they're insecure about their looks. It's a remarkable twist of logic.

Some have claimed it's a form of artistic expression, which is probably true for some, but I doubt it's true for the majority.

It's almost as if stubbornness is taking over, and getting in the way of honest discussion. Despite saying it's about insecurity in a roundabout way, they can't actually admit that it's about insecurity. Because then they'd be (a) admitting to insecurity when obviously they are perfect and (b) wrong.

The stubbornness to me is the insistence of "Women wear make-up because they're insecure about their looks" instead of accepting it depends on how much make-up they wear and that it can be as simple as just wanting to look nice for an event/to attract the opposite sex. The thing that men do too!

If mere grooming means insecurity, then I assume you think the only way a person is truly secure is if they go out wearing comfy clothes for lounging around in and make absolutely no effort with their appearance?

The Talking Bread · 08-12-2016 06:01PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Of course shortening paragraphs of responses to three words would over simplify it and I’m glad the poster is accepting the advice as I agree with it.

What I’m pointing out is the hypocrisy of saying this is good advice for a shorter guy but then claiming there’s no issue with someone burying their insecurity under a mountain of foundation. One is actually resolving an issue while the other is just pushing it down.

How is building your self esteem by wearing makeup "pushing down" a problem. At the end of the day we are here to enjoy life and you can't do that without self esteem.
It isn't as if the world is going to run out of skin concealer in the next few years and these young women are going to have to go cold turkey and suffer the consequences of their decision to wear makeup in the first place whilst those who go au natural live in this happy bubble for ever.

Same with shaving. Being clean shaven isn't natural in itself. Whilst it is done for health (cleanliness) reasons, it is done to look good, respectable and attractive also.

Foxtrol · 08-12-2016 06:03PM

Amirah Alive Sediment wrote: »

When you're buying clothes, is it literally the first thing you see, or do you make some sort of choice based on the appearance of the clothes? Getting a haircut, do you give any instructions or not even look at it? I'd say liking to wear a bit of makeup is insecure to the same extent.

I’m sorry wearing clothes and cutting your hair is not the same as making your face look like another person.

The hostility that comes up in the make up conversation, and the peculiar insistence that in relation to make up making a moderate effort to improve your appearance as you see it means you're insecure... I can see how that leads to defensiveness.

Of course it can be a sign of insecurity. Of course it can be taken to damaging extremes. But that's not true in the majority of cases. It's something people do because they enjoy or because like most adults who leave the house they try and look their best. If you want to shoehorn the word insecurity into that it's up to you.

Can you please explain how it is not linked to insecurity?

Triceratops Ballet · 08-12-2016 06:04PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Then why cant we have an honest open discussion about makeup like we can about height? Once it is mentioned people come out of the woodwork in defense of the right to wear makeup.

On famous people you could say the exact same about most male actors who are made to appear taller in movies.

We're having one, but some posters aren't interested in acknowledging the pov of others and are insisting that their opinion on the matter is fact.

zulutango · 08-12-2016 06:04PM

Flimpson wrote: »

The stubbornness to me is the insistence of "Women wear make-up because they're insecure about their looks" instead of accepting it depends on how much make-up they wear and that it can be as simple as just wanting to look nice for an event/to attract the opposite sex. The thing that men do too!

If mere grooming means insecurity, then I assume you think the only way a person is truly secure is if they go out wearing comfy clothes for lounging around in and make absolutely no effort with their appearance?

I'm not arguing men don't have insecurities. They do, of course. But that's beside the point.

What's at issue here is whether women wear make-up because they are insecure about their looks, and you all seem to be admitting it, but not admitting it at the same time. It's farcical at this stage.

You know, it's ok to have insecurities. You're not perfect. Nobody is.

Triceratops Ballet · 08-12-2016 06:05PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

I’m sorry wearing clothes and cutting your hair is not the same as making your face look like another person.

Can you please explain how it is not linked to insecurity?

because makeup is a fashion item!!! is wearing fashionable clothes also a sign of insecurity ?

The Talking Bread · 08-12-2016 06:05PM

zulutango wrote: »

Yes, that's what I'm saying. It's about insecurity. You seem to agree.

Twist my words however you want, anyone who properly wants to read my post will understand the point I am making.

Again you put forward your opinion that every woman does it out of complete insecurity and that is the only reason they buy their mascarra. You are entirely wrong with that. But it's your opinion. If you are a girl and have those insecurities, that is your personal mindset.
If you are a guy and reading into the mindset of every woman, good luck to you!

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 08-12-2016 06:05PM

And I don't know about everyone else here but I've been having conversations about looks and insecurity with other women since I was like fourteen. If I had a euro for every time I've said or been told "shut up and stop complaining you daft bitch you look great" I'd be rich.

Goya · 08-12-2016 06:06PM

Stealthfins wrote: »

This is an Irish attitude,you won't see it anywhere else.

Go to the UK and you'll see female doctors vet's and barristers married and going out with barmen, forestry workers, waiters, police men,, farm hands,gardeners...etc

These women are successful and don't have the measure their men's merit on the man's success....

If only these Tinder brats would grow up.

This is an Irish attitude you won't see anywhere else... because you don't see it in the UK?

(sure you don't).

Anyway, back to reality - you do of course see it outside Ireland (the US for example) and not just from women.

The Talking Bread · 08-12-2016 06:08PM

zulutango wrote: »

I'm not arguing men don't have insecurities. They do, of course. But that's beside the point.

What's at issue here is whether women wear make-up because they are insecure about their looks, and you all seem to be admitting it, but not admitting it at the same time. It's farcical at this stage.

You know, it's ok to have insecurities. You're not perfect. Nobody is.

Right I admit it. You are completely right! No need to be insecure and seek reassurance about your opinions!

How come Tinder is so difficult?

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