Xylitol, why isn't it more widely recommended and used.

Muhammed_1 · 24-11-2016 04:11PM

The fact that I am not a dentist does not preclude me from having an opinion, or from making a recommendation.

You are the one making logical errors, not me.

It was the Dental Hygeinist magazine that made the claim that xylitol is natural. And it is natural. What is your problem with that?

I didn't say that xylitol should be used BECAUSE it is natural. I said xylitol should be used because it is effective.

Why are you attacking me like this?

Oral Surgeon · 24-11-2016 04:24PM

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

some links.

http://www.kiddsdental.com/nutrition/xylitol/research/does-xylitol-influence-gingivitis-and-0periodontitis

Xylitol has been known about for a long time.

If I enquired about flouride I would not be asked to provide links to studies.

Dentists should know about Xylitol. Asking me for links to studies implies a lack of knowledge.

This thread is about the lack of knowledge among dentists about xylitol, and about why xylitol is not more widely recommended.

The ramblings of a dentist in Idaho or rather Dr. John Peldyak is not research

Oral Surgeon · 24-11-2016 04:25PM

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

from dental hygenist magazine.

Why is xylitol not more widely recommended by Irish dentists?

An article in a dental hygienist magazine is not research!!

Muhammed_1 · 24-11-2016 04:29PM

Shoot the messenger why don't you?

I repeat, I am simply a normal person asking why xylitol is not more widely recommended.

Why am I coming in for such attacks?

Oral Surgeon, are the dental associations who do recommend xylitol wrong to do so?

We are talking Finland, Sweden, Britain etc.

Are they all wrong?

Everyone is wrong and you're correct.

Please!

Stop digging the hole.

Oral Surgeon · 24-11-2016 04:35PM

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

Your first approach was to mock and denigrate.

First impressions last.
You don't come across as a professional, and you do bring your profession into disrepute with your childishness and with your mocking attitude.

My attitude is only to balance your ridiculous and overzealous endorsement of an unproven concept

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

You cannot be keeping up to date with dental news if you're unaware of xylitol.

I have no interest in engaging with bullies, and sniping type comments.

"Dental news" is there to fill a gap in a newspaper or to fill the 30 second slot at the end of the news. It is BS, how many times have the news reported on "the end to the dental drill". If all patients were like you then they would head to their dentist a week later and give out about why they were not keeping up with the dental news and still using a drill.....

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

I have no interest in engaging with bullies, and sniping type comments.

If, as a dental professional, you are unaware of xylitol I am not going to provide endless links for you.

I repeat that I an disturbed by the reaction to this thread.

If you think that I am a bully, then you have lived a very sheltered life.

I am aware of xylitol, I just don't think that it is the panacea that you do.

The links that you have provided are rubbish.

What reaction did you expect? Thanks for your un-verified science and advice that can't be backed up by clinical research???

Oral Surgeon · 24-11-2016 04:36PM

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

Shoot the messenger why don't you?

I repeat, I am simply a normal person asking why xylitol is not more widely recommended.

Why am I coming in for such attacks?

Oral Surgeon, are the dental associations who do recommend xylitol wrong to do so?

We are talking Finland, Sweden, Britain etc.

Are they all wrong?

Everyone is wrong and you're correct.

Please!

Stop digging the hole.

Links please?

Muhammed_1 · 24-11-2016 04:39PM

use google, troll.

Oral Surgeon · 24-11-2016 04:44PM

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

use google, troll.

I have 2500 posts, most in the dental forum and I'm the troll??

Don't give dubious advice if you can't back it up properly. Am I to believe that Finland, Sweden and Britain are advising people to rinse with high quantities of xylitol??

Evidence, links???

You have read this so post it....

Muhammed_1 · 24-11-2016 04:46PM

Number of posts means nothing.

Your attitude here is clear for all to see.

gctest50 · 24-11-2016 04:47PM

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

use google, troll.

Surely you did research before you started making recommending regimes ?

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

My recommended regime is very likely to show good results.

only asking to paste in the sources

unless you go around recommending regimes without doing any research

Oral Surgeon · 24-11-2016 04:48PM

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

Number of posts means nothing.

Your attitude here is clear for all to see.

Snore!!

It is clear for all to see that you have no science.

Muhammed_1 · 24-11-2016 04:50PM

Talk about an aggressive forum.

Where is the moderation?

gctest50 · 24-11-2016 04:55PM

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

My recommended regime is very likely to show good results.

Did you do any research before recommending your regime ?

Muhammed_1 · 24-11-2016 05:02PM

Is it your position that the magazines and dentists I quoted are lying?

Is it your position that the promotion of xylitol as having dental benefit is a scam?

Have you evidence to support your paranoid opinion?

Enter into google 'xylitol and dental health'.

Are all the results scammers and liars?

Why should we trust what you say?
You haven't provided any links.

Enter into google 'is xylitol a scam?'

Do you get any results?

Bizarre paranoid posts make up a lot of this thread.

ShoulderChip · 24-11-2016 05:04PM

Sweet, I never knew that professional dentists were at our beck and call here, and that if they don't satisfy me they have brought their profession into disrepute. Gonna have me some fun so :P

Muhammed_1 · 24-11-2016 05:08PM

I'm going to ask a dentist to bake me a cake, and boy!, will I be angry if they refuse!

I equate Xylitol Denialism to climate change denialism!

gctest50 · 24-11-2016 05:19PM

The burden of proof lies with the person making the claim

Did you do research before recommending your regime ?

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

My recommended regime is very likely to show good results.

If you did research surely you made note of your sources ?

Oral Surgeon · 24-11-2016 05:24PM

Lying? No, but paper never refused ink and this is not the first time pseudo science has been advised here. It's not up to me to prove you wrong, it is up to you to prove that you are right.

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

Is it your position that the magazines and dentists I quoted are lying?

Is it your position that the promotion of xylitol as having dental benefit is a scam?

Have you evidence to support your paranoid opinion?

Enter into google 'xylitol and dental health'.

Are all the results scammers and liars?

Why should we trust what you say?
You haven't provided any links.

Enter into google 'is xylitol a scam?'

Do you get any results?

Bizarre paranoid posts make up a lot of this thread.

Oral Surgeon · 24-11-2016 05:26PM

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

I'm going to ask a dentist to bake me a cake, and boy!, will I be angry if they refuse!

I equate Xylitol Denialism to climate change denialism!

You are like a dog with a bone, what is your motivation on this topic?? What makes you such an expert?

Muhammed_1 · 24-11-2016 05:34PM

Don't give xylitol to your dogs, it is very dangerous for them.

Is that pseudo science too Oral Surgeon?

Muhammed_1 · 24-11-2016 05:47PM

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

Lying? No, but paper never refused ink and this is not the first time pseudo science has been advised here. It's not up to me to prove you wrong, it is up to you to prove that you are right.

Ahh.

So, your position is that the dentists and hygeinists I quoted are not lying, they are merely mistaken. They are unwittingly engaging in pseudo science.

You discount their professional training?
Why?

We know that they are professionals, or are very likely to be professionals. We don't know that in respect of your good self.

Your willingness to assume that dental professionals have simply got the science wrong is not very compelling to me.

I am entitled to read dental magazines without assuming that the science contained within them is wrong.
It is bizarre that you discount professional magazines without any evidence, except your diktats that they are all pseudo science.

helimachoptor · 24-11-2016 05:53PM

Muhammed, your pushing on xylitol is getting into schill territory.

Oral Surgeon · 24-11-2016 05:54PM

But that is my point. If you believe the articles you read and believe the authors then that is fine but don't expect me to believe it if their views are not based on well planned clinical trials in a well respected journal.

We all have our opinions. Mine is based on the absence of evidence. These other xylitol gurus is based on what?? You believe them because???

Andrew Wakefield was a professional and his opinion and bad evidence was very damaging to many people.

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

Ahh.

So, your position is that the dentists and hygeinists I quoted are not lying, they are merely mistaken. They are unwittingly engaging in pseudo science.

You discount their professional training?
Why?

We know that they are professionals, or are very likely to be professionals. We don't know that in respect of your good self.

Your willingness to assume that dental professionals have simply got the science wrong is not very compelling to me.

I am entitled to read dental magazines without assuming that the science contained within them is wrong.
It is bizarre that you discount professional magazines without any evidence, except your diktats that they are all pseudo science.

Muhammed_1 · 24-11-2016 06:02PM

helimachoptor wrote: »

Muhammed, your pushing on xylitol is getting into schill territory.

I am responding to unreasonable criticism.

You criticise me for that?

What do you expect me to do?
Fail or refuse to present my argument, and fail or refuse to address points made directly to me?

The question remains open.
Why is there such resistance to xylitol among Irish dentists?

dudara · 24-11-2016 06:04PM

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

Your willingness to assume that dental professionals have simply got the science wrong is not very compelling to me.

Let me use a personal example. I hold a Ph.D. in Physics. I spent a lot of my time studying the areas of physics as an undergraduate before specialising in my chosen field as a Ph.D. student.

Everything I studied and every approach I used was believed to be correct at the time, based on the generally accepted view of quantum physics. But I personally believe that in 20, 50 years time, what I was taught as fact will be discarded in favour of a new theory or view of quantum physics.

Imagine that you were a student of atomic physics at the turn of the 20th century. You would have believed in the plum pudding model of the atom, but that was later discredited through experimental evidence.

Science is constantly evolving and we cannot assume that we are absolutely right, beyond all doubt. To do so would be wrong. So we accept what we have but we continue to challenge. We continue to perform well-designed experiments and studies, so that we can keep improving.

You have to look at studies and experiments and ask... Were they well-designed? Was the analysis performed fairly and in such a way as to remove bias? Were the studies influenced by external or commercial factors?

Even professionals get it wrong. They can be using outdated theories, they can fail to factor for bias in studies or they can be influenced by external factors. Or they can simply be lying. There's a whole myriad of reasons.

Dianthus · 24-11-2016 06:05PM

The obsession with Xylitol is nothing short of evangelical. That must have been some impressive article you read in the hygienist magazine!

OP, most practitioners have enough of a challenge to firstly even get patients to attend regularly& show an interest in preventative dentistry.
Then to show said patients to brush& floss properly (I wold estimate that about 90% don't floss daily or anywhere near it)
Now add in diet advice& smoking cessation advice (again, mainly ignored).
Most dentists aren't "in denial", or "biased against" Xylitol. They're just focused on providing basic, simple instructions about thorough& effective mechanical cleaning. Statistics show that patients only retain 20% of discussions anyway, the rest is just lost in a blur of white noise- so getting technical with 5 carbon rings& 3 carbon rings & Strepmutans isn't going to convince them to start a new regimen, when they're not even mastering the basics of brushing& flossing. In an ideal world all our patients would be as enthusiastic& motivated as you, but unfortunately that's just not the case.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 24-11-2016 09:32PM

We all have open minds, but as the late great Cristopher Hitchens put it, have an open mind but not so open your brain falls out.

Dentistry and medicine has been stung before with media driven fads. Where recommendations and products were prescribed before good long term data came out. Ozone machines were a resent one. Also delivery systems are important. Fluroide was good because it required no compliance. A mouthwash requires you do something. Why not brush your teeth instead, it works better? The medical sciences require you take human nature into consideration, and also that you have studies of long duration on a wide range of people.

In this media internet age, what is information and what is nonsense is blurred. As innocuous as Xylitol is, and as little effect as it has, Its unnecessary noise in an complex area people already overcomplicate. We dentists as oral health educators like to simplify the message and bring the heavy effective weapons to the table, these little distractions cause more harm than good. I dont think any of the dentist here really care about this topic, it shows little promise compared to other novel bio-active agents in research stages.

If the op is into this, more power to him. If other people want to do it too, more power to them also. I would advise that brushing, flossing and limitation of the frequency of sugars is done as a priority to this. The old reliables are just that.

Muhammed_1 · 25-11-2016 11:56AM

The resistance displayed on this forum to xylitol is truly remarkable.

It's almost as if dentists don't want the best outcome for their patients.

Fitzgeme, do you believe the dentists I'm quoting are lying?
or are they merely mistaken?

Are they knowingly engaged in fraud?
Are professional dental organisation engaged in pseudo science?

No-one has provided any links stating that xylitol is ineffective.

This forum thread will stand in the future as a testament to the closed mind attitude of Irish dentists.

Muhammed_1 · 25-11-2016 12:10PM

I posted this earlier, from a professional dental magazine.

Xylitol's preventive and therapeutic benefits

Helps prevent tooth decay by reducing plaque formation
Blocks the acids that demineralize tooth enamel
Halts the growth of acid producing bacteria
Reduces gingival inflammation
Has a glycemic level of 7, which does not trigger an insulin reaction in the body, making it useful for diabetics
Has 40% fewer calories than sugar.
Raises the pH level to be more alkaline

Is that all false?
Are the dentists knowingly lying?

Are the dentists merely mistaken if not lying?
How come the dentists are unaware of their own mistakes?

Why do the dentists not express any doubt about their conclusions?
Are they being reckless as to whether or not they are engaging in pseudo science?

I don't find it compelling that people on this forum are contradicting professinal magazines and dentists.

My question by the way, posed in the OP, is why there is such resistance to xylitol among irish dentists?

I think my point is proven that there is serious resistance to xylitol among irish dental professionals.

The question remaiins open; why is that?

The obvious answer is that xylitol doesn't work but why are professionals forming that opinion?

It doesn't seem to gel with what is happening elsewhere.

A dental professional should not take ideaological positions in relation to treatments.

Dianthus · 25-11-2016 01:06PM

Boards.ie Dental Issues is not the Irish Dental Association or Dental Council of Ireland. Nor is it Dublin Dental Hospital or Cork Dental Hospital.
The handful of posters who have replied are evidence of nothing other than people generally interested in dentistry outside their 9-5 working lives.
Certainly no one here purports to speak for, or be a representative of, the couple of thousand Irish dentists in the country. Every clinician will have their own individual viewpoints& interests. As will every patient.
Let the facts speak for themselves. Anyone interested in Xylitol can easily find out more.
To achieve anything, issues with dental professionals/crusading for Xylitol should be done via the proper channels.

Xylitol, why isn't it more widely recommended and used.

Comments