Phoenix Park tunnel: 4 trains per hour from 2016

Jamie2k9 · 21-11-2016 06:22PM

The Mulk wrote: »

Did you notice if the carpark was full at 8:35, my wife used it earlier and said there was loads of spaces.
I'm looking to use it and would probably drive.

Hazelhatch has a massive car park, less than 50% full most days.

trellheim · 21-11-2016 06:27PM

The 08.15 from Adamstwon departed 5 minutes late, but I suspect this service will be held regularly around Park West unless they can manage to defer the schedules by a few minutes, time will tell. Same with 08.35 service, IC has to be given clear runs at such a critical hour

please outline reasoning here. In some rail environments commuter takes priority over IC runs due to less time sensitivity of IC vs Commuter.

Jamie2k9 · 21-11-2016 06:35PM

trellheim wrote: »

please outline reasoning here. In some rail environments commuter takes priority over IC runs due to less time sensitivity of IC vs Commuter.

IC would be very sensitive to punctuality, some might argue services are already slow and delays add to it. They also carry a lot of commuter traffic.

Commuter not so much and it's also a case of a stopping commuter service going slow verses slowing down a train doing 100 mph.

Guess all about striking a balance and good scheduling taking into account minor delays which can be unpredictable.

IE have no problems doing the opposite on Connolly side because it's likely 90% commuter where as on Heuston side it's the complete opposite.

The Mulk · 21-11-2016 06:35PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Hazelhatch has a massive car park, less than 50% full most days.

Good to hear, she's used to driving to Louisa bridge, but that has been close to full and getting busier the last while.
Hopefully this doesn't get too packed.
Can anyone shed any light on the feeder bus, is there designated stops on the Hatch Road, or a timetable on-line?

The_Wanderer · 21-11-2016 06:40PM

The Mulk wrote: »

Good to hear, she's used to driving to Louisa bridge, but that has been close to full and getting busier the last while.
Hopefully this doesn't get too packed.
Can anyone shed any light on the feeder bus, is there designated stops on the Hatch Road, or a timetable on-line?

Timetable here http://www.irishrail.ie/media/16_dublin-portlaoise_valind_from_20112016.pdf

The Mulk · 21-11-2016 06:42PM

The_Wanderer wrote: »

Timetable here http://www.irishrail.ie/media/16_dublin-portlaoise_valind_from_20112016.pdf

Thanks very much.

kildarecommuter · 21-11-2016 06:54PM

The Mulk wrote: »

Did you notice if the carpark was full at 8:35, my wife used it earlier and said there was loads of spaces.
I'm looking to use it and would probably drive.

As stated by other posters Hazelhatch car park is not even half full loads of space although I do find the €4.50 car park fee a bit high

The Mulk · 21-11-2016 07:01PM

kildarecommuter wrote: »

As stated by other posters Hazelhatch car park is not even half full loads of space although I do find the €4.50 car park fee a bit high

Is it not 9 euro a week with parkbytext?

axcel · 21-11-2016 07:37PM

Not sure if this is the right forum for it. But I'm very confused by the rail prices for trains through the tunnel. I would've assumed tickets would be slightly cheaper when we are forgoing the additional feeder luas. But I was trying to find out the annual price today as mine is up renewal this week, and altho prices won't be finalised until wednesday I was told the price would be more expensive to Blackrock.

I didn't question it till I heard on the news how this was going to save us all money. The funny till aswell is that they told me the price to Grand Canal would be the same as the price to Connolly including feeder service. So this kinda contradicts the Blackrock scenario.

Am I missing something?

(Point to point is from Kildare btw)

Idbatterim · 21-11-2016 07:58PM

would there be a much larger number of people using this new service, if the train stopped at heuston?

surely this could be done for fairly small money?

Jamie2k9 · 21-11-2016 08:05PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

would there be a much larger number of people using this new service, if the train stopped at heuston?

surely this could be done for fairly small money?

Why stop it when no services have been cut from Heuston, cross overs and signalling are expensive.

What benefits does Heuston offer?

L1011 · 21-11-2016 08:06PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

would there be a much larger number of people using this new service, if the train stopped at heuston?

No. Its not replacing existing trains. There are very few people who need to go from Heuston to GCD. It should be considered, but in light of:

Idbatterim wrote: »

surely this could be done for fairly small money?

No. At the very least you need to install a crossover and associated signalling which is a six figure sum. Realistically you need a second platform, bridge, lifts, exit to Conyngham Road to get more traffic (there are offices along there), etc, etc.

I'd be more interested in them putting a station in Cabra first.

marno21 · 21-11-2016 08:06PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Why stop it when no services have been cut from Heuston, cross overs and signalling are expensive.

What benefits does Heuston offer?

The people who want to go to Heuston can still use the existing services to Heuston. No point in an extra stop with the new service.

Idbatterim · 21-11-2016 08:21PM

but you cant get from grand canal dock or pearse or connolly to heuston as it stands, correct?

L1011 · 21-11-2016 08:51PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

but you cant get from grand canal dock or pearse or connolly to heuston as it stands, correct?

DART and Luas, which would be quicker than the train around the entire north city and the walk back.

Grandeeod · 21-11-2016 09:34PM

Oh "sigh":rolleyes:

Lots of inaccurate stuff in the media today, but I must correct one particular press release from today and they should know better. A quote from Rail Users Ireland.

Rail Users Ireland, acknowledges the initiative of the National Transport Authority in providing rail services through Phoenix Park Tunnel. We note that without the intervention of the National Transport Authority, Irish Rail would have continued to refuse to consider the introduction of such services.

While the NTA have spearheaded this particular project, they have done so under a Fine Gael lead Government. As far back as 2003, FG latched onto this particular campaign that was promoted by the controversial group known as Platform 11. That particular group, now known as Rail Users Ireland, appeared in front of an Oireachtas Committee and held numerous public meetings from Phisboro to Kildare town. All were heavily promoted by FG, because the FF lead Government didn't give a damn about the PPT as they had been consumed by the Interconnector (DART Underground) being the only game in town. While FG tried to use the PPT as a stick to beat DU with (which was wrong) it was obvious that once in Government, they would impliment it. Unfortunately they also scuppered DU. It is no coincidence that the NTA, under a FG lead Government have delivered this project. I would say it was FG policy since 2003.

One more disappointing aspect of the above press release is that no mention is actually made to DU being cancelled and put back into planning. There is a completely new generation on these forums and its unfair that they don't always get the true history of these projects.

Del.Monte · 21-11-2016 09:47PM

What use will Dublin Underground be if the mainline network is dismantled?

Grandeeod · 21-11-2016 09:58PM

Del.Monte wrote: »

What use will Dublin Underground be if the mainline network is dismantled?

It'll be grand! IE will only dismantle it from Longford, Portlaoise, Athlone, Carlow and Gorey.:D

Del.Monte · 21-11-2016 10:09PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

It'll be grand! IE will only dismantle it from Longford, Portlaoise, Athlone, Carlow and Gorey.:D

I'll go with that as long as you make it Athy rather than Carlow - that way foggy_lad will get his wish of having to travel everywhere by bus.

ChikiChiki · 21-11-2016 10:16PM

Great that this is finally going but on my journey from Maynooth this morning I had to wonder if IE assessed the operational impact in great detail on other lines as a result if opening the tunnel. We were stopped twice between Broombridge and Drumcondra for 5+ mins this morning in a location where we would usually never be held up. I would worry about the impact as punctuality on that line is poor at the best of times.

Think they may need to reissue new timetables in time to factor in delays etc with signalling but overall a positive step even if I have to get an earlier train as a buffer.

Edit; just looking back at posts I see others had similar complaints.

Grandeeod · 21-11-2016 10:50PM

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Great that this is finally going but on my journey from Maynooth this morning I had to wonder if IE assessed the operational impact in great detail on other lines as a result if opening the tunnel. We were stopped twice between Broombridge and Drumcondra for 5+ mins this morning in a location where we would usually never be held up. I would worry about the impact as punctuality on that line is poor at the best of times.

Think they may need to reissue new timetables in time to factor in delays etc with signalling but overall a positive step even if I have to get an earlier train as a buffer.

Edit; just looking back at posts I see others had similar complaints.

I don't know at this point in time if the delays are related to the new service. But from the few similar posts made, it really highlights the all consuming "me first" mentality. Apart from the poorly thought out DART extensions many many years ago, this project is the start of a really new urban penetrative service and some still want to moan about delays being related to it on day one.

aliveandkicking · 22-11-2016 12:55AM

Not sure if they are still active on this forum but I would like to congratulate the original Platform 11 members on the achievement of finally seeing the PPT running scheduled services. It was you guys who put this idea on the agenda all the way back in 2003. So Derek Wheeler and Thomas Sheridan if you are reading - well done, you guys laid the foundations for today and at least you have got some reward for your efforts over the years even if we haven't got the interconnector.

Anyone interested in the history of how the Phoenix Park Tunnel entered the minds of the political establishment have a read of this:
http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/Debates%20Authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/committeetakes/TRJ2003041500003?opendocument

Del.Monte · 22-11-2016 01:07AM

Whatever happened to Derek Wheeler anyway? Last I heard he was run out of the country by the Irish Film Board after making this movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0TkT3ctRIA

XPS_Zero · 22-11-2016 01:31AM

FF didn't give a damn about the PPT as they were consumed by DU?

Not consumed enough to build it apparently and it's easy to argue DU was needed WAY more than PPT and would produce far greater benefits
For people so into promoting infrastructure FG govt had a bizzare way of showing this commitment proposing that insane Airport Luas plan instead of metro north (dumping people at the roundabout onto a "people mover" I mean ffsake) then pulling that after the backlash and replacing it with...nothing.

It's dangerous thinking to start attaching entire parties to opinions on projects as there's often dispute within parties on what to adopt
I personally know people in FG and FF who've gone mad arguing with country members and branches of their own parties who throw a huge irrational hissy fit whenever a project for Dublin is being discussed, they then, in a very familiar pattern say the country could use that money, when you ask how you get vague nonsense like "jobs" or absurd specifics like a Galway or Cork Luas

It should also be noted that after 2008 every govt we've had dropped the ball on infrastructure at the very time it would have provided badly needed stimulus

The original deadlines for completion of both metro lines and Luas extensions F and B2 have all passed now in some cases with planning permission running out

Our political class seems to think we don't need to do anything to attract investment or Brexit exodus companies other than our one trick pony deal of 12.5% CT, the last remnant of the tiger eras magical thinking on economics (with the theme: do this one trick and everything will flow from it) now as anyone with half a brain could have foreseen other countries are gutting their rates meanwhile we've sweet FA else to offer other than crappy infrastructure a fragmented transport network and a disastrously investment starved education system at all levels

Paddico · 22-11-2016 03:31PM

L1011 wrote: »

Idbatterim wrote: »

would there be a much larger number of people using this new service, if the train stopped at heuston?

No. Its not replacing existing trains. There are very few people who need to go from Heuston to GCD. It should be considered, but in light of:

Idbatterim wrote: »

surely this could be done for fairly small money?

No. At the very least you need to install a crossover and associated signalling which is a six figure sum. Realistically you need a second platform, bridge, lifts, exit to Conyngham Road to get more traffic (there are offices along there), etc, etc.

I'd be more interested in them putting a station in Cabra first.

Had a look at the satilite views around Cabra, plenty of space for a station stop there alright

Paddico · 22-11-2016 03:36PM

L1011 wrote: »

Idbatterim wrote: »

but you cant get from grand canal dock or pearse or connolly to heuston as it stands, correct?

DART and Luas, which would be quicker than the train around the entire north city and the walk back.

Yes but would a platform 11 stop if you want to call it that, give communters more options coming in from Kildare and West Dublin

Paddico · 22-11-2016 03:39PM

L1011 wrote: »

Idbatterim wrote: »

but you cant get from grand canal dock or pearse or connolly to heuston as it stands, correct?

DART and Luas, which would be quicker than the train around the entire north city and the walk back.

Yes but would a platform 11 stop if you want to call it that, give commuters more options coming in from Kildare and West Dublin

n97 mini · 22-11-2016 04:36PM

Ideal place here for a station. Mind boggling number of connections possible!

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3654412,-6.2750721,238m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

Grandeeod · 22-11-2016 04:49PM

n97 mini wrote: »

Ideal place here for a station. Mind boggling number of connections possible!

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3654412,-6.2750721,238m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

Suggested by Platform 11 in the O'Reilly report. Knocked back for a variety of reasons.

L1011 · 22-11-2016 06:38PM

There werw actually pax on one of the evening inbounds there. Didn't jump on to ask if they were ex Parkwest or Drumcondra, but Parkwest could be a decent source.

Very few seats on the 1737 outbound.

Phoenix Park tunnel: 4 trains per hour from 2016

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