Limerick-Ballybrophy Closure

Del.Monte · 17-11-2016 09:40PM

tabbey wrote: »

It is many years since I saw staff in Clonmel apart from the signalman.

You may refer to the lady in the tearoom, that is a separate entity, not IR.

I note that the tearoom that you refer to is NOT mentioned on the IR page - how surprising. :rolleyes:

Del.Monte · 17-11-2016 09:42PM

ClovenHoof wrote: »

The buses all have toilets now.

They don't but I wouldn't be anxious to sample them anyway - tie a knot in it first.

Del.Monte · 18-11-2016 11:12AM

Just got around to watching RTE's Prime Time programme with Alan Kelly etc. and it was vintage lazy journalism at its best. Instead of going to Nenagh and Roscrea we were treated to close-ups of ancient architecture, signs and water cranes at Ballybrophy. Equally ancient (deliberately chosen?) OAPs were asked for their views..and in studio a smirking Alan Kelly, on a vote gathering exercise, kept demanding investment while not once questioning the operation of existing services, the lack of a proper plan - including a direct curve at Ballybrophy. Alas, such is the lack of planning that has Ireland heading down the pan again.

Show a map of the rail network to any class of primary school children and I bet they could tell you with the aid of a few crayons what needs doing to improve things. The layout at Ballybrophy maybe a train spotters wet dream but it does nothing to aid the development of rail traffic.

Del.Monte · 18-11-2016 12:37PM

Deedsie wrote: »

I am impressed by the fact that most people here have a reasonable look at this. A proper plan, proper investment would make the Nenagh line a viable Ennis - Limerick - Nenagh - Dublin Main line. Perhaps Castleconnel & Birdhill stations should be closed to improve efficiency?

Expected the majority of people to be cut it and cut it now people.

Is the Waterford to Limerick line or could it become a viable line. An N24 upgrade along with a reliable bus route might be a more suitable approach.

Buses are not an adequate replacement for rail services as has been proved time and again when the replacement bus service itself is withdrawn. The Waterford/Limerick Junction line is a vital long-term cross country link. The development of the railway system through the entry of private operators like Belmond, Railtours Ireland, IWT and DFDS will be completely undermined by any further closures.

n97 mini · 18-11-2016 01:10PM

I count 29 level crossings on that line. Can someone tell me is this type of LC automatic or manual? It looks manual

https://www.google.ie/maps/@52.6635319,-8.5107121,3a,75y,217.47h,93.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s98hYlv0C3mgtHIrntw5NTg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

end of the road · 18-11-2016 04:14PM

a lot of the crossings are accommodation crossings i think.

Del.Monte · 18-11-2016 10:01PM

Cheery little notice currently on IE's website - no reason or apology for the inconvenience, just a stark FU message.

IE%2BSITE.PNG

n97 mini · 19-11-2016 01:16AM

Maybe they're upgrading the line?

Heisenberg1 · 19-11-2016 01:26AM

n97 mini wrote: »

I count 29 level crossings on that line. Can someone tell me is this type of LC automatic or manual? It looks manual

https://www.google.ie/maps/@52.6635319,-8.5107121,3a,75y,217.47h,93.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s98hYlv0C3mgtHIrntw5NTg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

That's a manual LC operated by a gatekeeper.

Idbatterim · 19-11-2016 10:42AM

Article in today's independent! If those kind of times can be shaved off journeys for a tiny investment, why in gods name isn't it been done?! Particularly on cork line?!

Secondly, don't cie own land they could sell off to fund works and provide housing etc?

Thirdly,it appears to me, that for the cost of one of the single rural motorways being built, a huge amount could be done for the entire rail network in the country!!!

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/stormy-times-ahead-seven-issues-down-the-track-for-irish-rail-35228156.html

CrowdedHouse · 19-11-2016 02:52PM

n97 mini wrote: »

Maybe they're upgrading the line?

Well there was a JCB and several high vis dudes on the line near the bridge at Roscrea golf club yesterday

end of the road · 19-11-2016 03:51PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

Article in today's independent! If those kind of times can be shaved off journeys for a tiny investment, why in gods name isn't it been done?! Particularly on cork line?!

Secondly, don't cie own land they could sell off to fund works and provide housing etc?

Thirdly,it appears to me, that for the cost of one of the single rural motorways being built, a huge amount could be done for the entire rail network in the country!!!

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/stormy-times-ahead-seven-issues-down-the-track-for-irish-rail-35228156.html

CIE do have land. the problem is however that the land they would sell is the one that has potential for re-use by the railway. Didn't inchicore works have some of it's land sold off? could have been kept to continue all maintenence there for stock operating in and out of the dublin area rather then having depots half way out the country. so it's a hard one to call, even though in the past i would have agreed with the idea of CIE getting rid of any bit of land it had outside depots stations and tracks.

n97 mini · 19-11-2016 06:33PM

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

That's a manual LC operated by a gatekeeper.

Quick flick shows 2 automatic crossings, the other 27 are manual. Does that mean 27 people employed on that line just to operate gates?

end of the road · 19-11-2016 07:47PM

could be done by a man in a van surely? the speeds the trains do would surely allow for it. but god only knows

19-11-2016 07:50PM

end of the road wrote: »

could be done by a man in a van surely? the speeds the trains do would surely allow for it. but god only knows

I have a vision of someone jogging ahead of the train.

Fred Swanson · 19-11-2016 08:00PM

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L1011 · 19-11-2016 08:47PM

n97 mini wrote: »

Quick flick shows 2 automatic crossings, the other 27 are manual. Does that mean 27 people employed on that line just to operate gates?

Likely a multiple thereof for shifts, cover etc

tabbey · 19-11-2016 10:26PM

end of the road wrote: »

Didn't inchicore works have some of it's land sold off? could have been kept to continue all maintenence there for stock operating in and out of the dublin area rather then having depots half way out the country. so it's a hard one to call, even though in the past i would have agreed with the idea of CIE getting rid of any bit of land it had outside depots stations and tracks.

The reason CIE and or the government chose to build railcar depots in Portlaoise and Drogheda, was to avail of EU regional development grants, which could be claimed in the Border, Midland and Western region, but not in Dublin & Eastern region.

Drogheda is just inside the border region and Portlaoise is midland.

For a short term gain to the state coffers, the powers that be sacrificed operational efficiency, at enormous cost to IR ever since. ghost trains running from Dublin and Bray to Drogheda and back, as well as long ICRs in service carrying a handful of passengers to Portlaoise.

Fred Swanson · 19-11-2016 10:30PM

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Isambard · 20-11-2016 10:23AM

so that's in all probability over 60 people just to open the gates. Scandalous, but not as scandalous as the lack of investment when times were better.

Where are all these empty workings? Don't trains start at the country end ion the morning and end there in the evening, in accordance with passenger flow?

loyatemu · 20-11-2016 09:43PM

Isambard wrote: »

so that's in all probability over 60 people just to open the gates. Scandalous, but not as scandalous as the lack of investment when times were better.

what's the alternative though - spend 10s of millions automating the LCs on a line that carries only a handful of passengers?

Isambard · 20-11-2016 09:52PM

chicken and egg
with past investment in this line and Lim Junc to Waterford , the situation now could be quite different. It's been engineered this way, IE has wanted to shut them for years

Fred Swanson · 20-11-2016 09:53PM

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tabbey · 20-11-2016 10:45PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Roscrea and Birdhill, which is the third, Killonan?

I suppose Killonan cabin could be closed if the branch closed, but the level crossing would remain on the route to Lmk Junction.

Fred Swanson · 20-11-2016 11:20PM

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loyatemu · 20-11-2016 11:28PM

Isambard wrote: »

chicken and egg
with past investment in this line and Lim Junc to Waterford , the situation now could be quite different. It's been engineered this way, IE has wanted to shut them for years

it's hard to see how a line that connects 2 small towns and a handful of tiny villages to a fairly small city could ever be viable (compared with other lines, obviously they're all subsidised to some degree). Even if you diverted the Dublin-Limerick trains onto it, you'd only be poaching passengers from the other line.

Waterford-Limerick at least has a city at each end, and a decent sized town en route (Clonmel is bigger than Nenagh and Roscrea combined). You could argue that with investment, a better timetable and promotion the Waterford-Limerick-Galway cross-country route could be an important link, it's difficult to make any such argument for the Ballybrophy branch.

Del.Monte · 20-11-2016 11:47PM

loyatemu wrote: »

it's hard to see how a line that connects 2 small towns and a handful of tiny villages to a fairly small city could ever be viable (compared with other lines, obviously they're all subsidised to some degree). Even if you diverted the Dublin-Limerick trains onto it, you'd only be poaching passengers from the other line.

Waterford-Limerick at least has a city at each end, and a decent sized town en route (Clonmel is bigger than Nenagh and Roscrea combined). You could argue that with investment, a better timetable and promotion the Waterford-Limerick-Galway cross-country route could be an important link, it's difficult to make any such argument for the Ballybrophy branch.

Or perhaps you would be freeing up space on the Dublin/Cork line - in much the same way that reopening Athlone/Mullingar would have beneficial effects on the Dublin/Cork line and Dublin/Westport/Ballina and Galway services.

BonkeyDonker · 21-11-2016 12:42AM

Del.Monte wrote: »

Or perhaps you would be freeing up space on the Dublin/Cork line - in much the same way that reopening Athlone/Mullingar would have beneficial effects on the Dublin/Cork line and Dublin/Westport/Ballina and Galway services.

How would you be doing that? The lines would merge at around Ballybrophy and continue on the same track from that point. Unlike Athlone/Mullingar which as I understand it would be removing the traffic completely.

The only capacity that would be free up would be past Portlaoise/Ballybrophy - which i cannot see being needed.

Now, personally I like the idea but more for the town like Roscrea etc who would have a direct, regular rail-link to Dublin and indeed Limerick. Opening this line direct would have been much more beneficial than the WRC in my opinion.

Fred Swanson · 21-11-2016 12:46AM

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Del.Monte · 21-11-2016 01:09AM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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There was never a direct curve at Ballybrophy but that is what is needed. The track layout was different and facilitated working to and from the branch but then it was 'improved' in the early 1980's.

Limerick-Ballybrophy Closure

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