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Failed RADSL; Passed ADSL

  • 10-07-2003 02:03PM
    #1
    BKtje
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,093 ✭✭✭


    Maybe this is a broadband issue. If so please move it there.

    I rang (both RADSL)Netsource and IOL Broadband (ESAT) today, they checked both my lines (1 ISDN 1 analogue). ISDN failed but the analogue one isn't in the system yet (less than a month old). I thought ok and gave up my dreams of having DSL in the near future (exchange btw is only 300m from my house or so).

    I then decided to ring Esat's business number (ADSL) and chance my arm. He asked me where abouts i was (Dun Laoghaire) and then for my phone number. Within 2 seconds he'd given me the all clear. I was flabergasted. Said i'd get abck to him tomorrow with my decesion. (would mean id be without i-net access for a week while they unbundled it)

    Now what im asking is how i faled RADSL (supposedly the easier to pass technology) and yet passed ADSL(harder to get).

    Is it purely because Esat would have control over my line and have betetr equipemtn or what? Im assuming the copper in the ground will go exactly the same route with the two companies with same noise etc. Seems very very odd.


Comments

  • #2
    shinzon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭shinzon


    im in the same boat, passed adsl and failed radsl cause eircom ****ed up my account

    Shin


  • #3
    BKtje
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,093 ✭✭✭BKtje


    Well just cos it has happened to two of us still doesnt mean it aint odd imo.

    From all the threads ive read, RADSL is a much less sensitive technology and thefore anyone that can get ADSL can also get RADSL. Only thing i can think of is the the Esat test is much less strenous than the Eircom one..doesnt really make sense to have RADSL test more strenous than an adsl one. Im really confusled.

    Guess Eircom's customers (netsource/iol broaband) loose out and Esat Business gains. /me looks forward to installation of ADSL , even if it does cost €110 a month.


  • #4
    flamegrill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭flamegrill


    Originally posted by B-K-DzR
    (would mean id be without i-net access for a week while they unbundled it)

    Be very carefull there, it has taken up to 4 weeks for this to actually happen. Going with Esat will take between 6 and 8 weeks to get it installed, this is no Joke. I've signed several clients up to Esats business DSL, most being medium to large corperates. Average install time was 6 weeks. And thats for line sharing :(, the unbundled ones the average is 9 weeks. Its a really painfull process.

    FYI,

    Paul


  • #5
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    Originally posted by flamegrill
    Be very carefull there, it has taken up to 4 weeks for this to actually happen. Going with Esat will take between 6 and 8 weeks to get it installed, this is no Joke. I've signed several clients up to Esats business DSL, most being medium to large corperates. Average install time was 6 weeks. And thats for line sharing :(, the unbundled ones the average is 9 weeks. Its a really painfull process.
    Did any of them fail Eircom's DSL test and then get Esat's DSL successfully?

    Esat, under LLU regulations, have rights to have coils, pairgains and such removed, but I'm not sure how they would be able to test that the line would work until after these have been removed and this would imply that the order would have to be taken.


  • #6
    BKtje
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,093 ✭✭✭BKtje


    o flamegrill, thanks for the warning. I got a second analogue line into the house there a couple weeks ago just so i'd survive (voice wise). Your man on the phone said it took 1 week to unbundle the line for which time it would be down. Will ask more questions tomoz when i ring to order...9 weeks without gaming. GAH

    EDIT: Just say it takes 9 weeks....do i get charged line rental from eircom while this is happening... or does Esat take over and stop the line rental when they start unbundling?


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  • #7
    The Brigadier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    AFAIK the RADSL packages are all the same no matter who sells them. Everyone is in essence using the same lines, just buying at the wholesale rate from Eircon.

    However the Esat Business ADSL is a seperate entity. Esat are using their own DSLAMs at different exchanges to Eircom. Some have both, some Esat, Some Eircom.

    I for example can get all the Eircom flavours of ADSL and RADSL but Esat have not upgraded my exchange.

    The fault could be at the Eircom DSLAM which is why you can pass for Esats business package. Can you get ADSL from Eircom or Netsource?


  • #8
    BKtje
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,093 ✭✭✭BKtje


    When i rang eircom 8 months ago they told me my exchange was upgraded but that i was on an overflow exchange so couldnt...Netsource just told me no recently.

    So what your basically saying is that Eircom are skimping(or Esat spending extra?) on the DSLAMS which is causing people to fail?


  • #9
    ozt9vdujny3srf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,150 ✭✭✭ozt9vdujny3srf


    I also passed adsl and failed radsl :/

    that is an interesting discovery. Whats esat -business's number?


  • #10
    The Brigadier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    It is not a case of Eircon or Esat skimping. They are just using there own DSLAMs. At some exchanges you may pass with Esat, some with Eircon or some with Both.


  • #11
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    Originally posted by Truckle
    I also passed adsl and failed radsl :/

    that is an interesting discovery. Whats esat -business's number?
    Has anyone gone on to get Esat's ADSL after failing RADSL?


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  • #12
    BKtje
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,093 ✭✭✭BKtje


    Has anyone gone on to get Esat's ADSL after failing RADSL?
    Im ordering it next week once Eircom switches my numbers around. (sticking analogue number to ISDN and ISDN to analogue as we want to keep the old phone number when we ugrade ISDN to DSL)


    Esat's Business number is : 1800 924 924 for whoever was looking for it.

    Maybe skimping was bad phrase to use James, but there must be some differences in them if one can pass Esat's but not Eircom's.
    I havent heard anything bad about esat's business products (apart from price and now long wait for install) so they dont seem to be lowering the standard of the service to try and get people in on the contract.


  • #13
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,289 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I have BB with €ircon i-stream (self install) at home but like the others it was a struggle to get - I failed the line test about 6 or 8 times up until mid April when I rang looking for it and failed yet again. Rang them straight back and said that I passed a while back (white lie) & could I now sign up and - hey presto - I passed!

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  • #14
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    Originally posted by B-K-DzR
    Im ordering it next week once Eircom switches my numbers around. (sticking analogue number to ISDN and ISDN to analogue as we want to keep the old phone number when we ugrade ISDN to DSL)
    I think the reason it might fail here is because of the ISDN. Eircom may not be interested in passing ISDN lines.

    It would be interesting to see whether, after they downgrade you to PSTN, the line still fails for Eircom's DSL (either RADSL or ADSL).


  • #15
    BKtje
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,093 ✭✭✭BKtje


    Plans changed slightly.
    Spoke to the guy who organises the Dun Laoghaire exchange.
    very nice man in the know :) (apparrently the Dun Laoghaire Exchange (esat's?) is on Patricks street. Thought Eircom's one was behind the Post Office)

    Anyway i discussed it with him and im actually upgrading my analogue line now as it would be a hell of a lot quicker. Also he promised to half the installation fee if i ordered today, which i did :)

    No need to unbundle the line so ill just cancel the ISDN..(no charge for that right? :rolleyes: )

    Would have been interesting tho to see if my line would have passed after i downgraded it but i think it will just be cheaper this way.
    I asked him if he knew why i woulda failed for RADSL and he basically said something about Eircom and ISDN ;)

    Anyway, orders in..im getting DSL :D


  • #16
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    Originally posted by B-K-DzR

    Anyway i discussed it with him and im actually upgrading my analogue line now as it would be a hell of a lot quicker.
    Just out of interest, does this analogue line pass for Eircom's DSL?


  • #17
    BKtje
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,093 ✭✭✭BKtje


    I asked netsource/IOL to test it but its too new (installed 2 weeks ago). So it aint in the system yet, woman from netsource said she'd contact me once the she found out so might still find out. Im kinda curious, once i get ADSL in im gonna ring round again and see what they say then.


  • #18
    flav0rflav
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 491 ✭✭flav0rflav


    DSL line testing in general, and this is no doubt applicable to eircom and EsatBT as anyone, follows this style:

    1. Lines are assessed based on crow flies distance from the exchange. You obviously have to be inside a certain radius.

    2. Lines are checked for extra detail in a line database that describes the exact structure of the line, ie. splitters, exact length, segment lengths, exact location, bundle groupings etc. This should be enough to have a good idea of suitablility. But obviously needs more effort than 1, but can be done on computer.

    3. Physical testing of the line for impedance and noise, etc. Most expensive, but most detail.

    When you get an initial assessment from eircom/esatbt it's almost definitely only of the first type. They may not even bother with the third type, they might just plug it in. And if anyone knows whether they are capable of the second test, it would be interesting to know...


  • #19
    BKtje
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,093 ✭✭✭BKtje


    As promised, netsource rang me this afternoon and gave me the very interesting answer that my new POTS phone line had passed the line test.
    I've now got an ISDN one thats failed and a POTS one thats passed.
    /me smells a rat ....and its not just that stuffed mascot but something much more sinister....

    (/me ponders wether to cancel the esat business and go with netsource or just stay with the guarantted great pings of Esat Business. Choices choices :) )


  • #20
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    Originally posted by B-K-DzR
    (/me ponders wether to cancel the esat business and go with netsource or just stay with the guarantted great pings of Esat Business. Choices choices :) )
    But according to this thread, Esat could not have passed the line since they are still waiting for the info from Eircom.

    "I then decided to ring Esat's business number (ADSL) and chance my arm. He asked me where abouts i was (Dun Laoghaire) and then for my phone number. Within 2 seconds he'd given me the all clear."

    I don't doubt what was said by Esat, but it would seem to contradict the ComReg decision.


  • #21
    spongebob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭spongebob


    Originally posted by SkepticOne

    I don't doubt what was said by Esat, but it would seem to contradict the ComReg decision.

    ESAT have a system in place for 40 exchanges where they installed kit last year and they have the data to hand.

    ESAT want the same information (on behalf of the industry) for the other 1060 exchanges in Ireland so that they can decide where to expand their network beyond the current 40 exchanges. It is invidious if you only get the data after you have made the investment already.

    I think that ESAT had a very low success rate at one of the Dublin exchages (or was that Limerick) owing to the bad quality of the lines there, had they known in advance how sh1te they were then they would not have bothered with it in the first place.

    M


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  • #22
    BKtje
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,093 ✭✭✭BKtje


    I assume that those 40 exchanges are the ones where they have LLU? If i get Esat's ADSL ill have LLU dsl if i understood the guy i spoke to correctly.


  • #23
    shinzon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭shinzon


    received this from philip nolans customer care manager today eircom seems to be backing away from an outright fail on my line to along the lines of it alright but its outside the distance for RADSL

    Could hold out some hope for the rest of you

    Dear ****,

    As advised in my mail of 10th July the main reasons for the failure of
    prequalification tests for i-stream are distance from the exchange and the
    sensitivity of ADSL technology.

    When a line fails we are not aware of the reason but more than likely in
    your case it's due to the technology involved which does not mean that your
    telephone line is not up to standard but that it's not suitable for
    i-stream. A line can pass and then on another occasion fail and an order
    cannot be placed when the line fails as we cannot guarantee the service.

    Lines are tested on an individual basis meaning that if your line fails it
    does not mean that your neighbour will fail also. A test would need to be
    carried out on their line to determine whether it passes or fails.

    eircom do not recommend that customers get a new line installed for the sole
    purpose of i-stream as the line would still be subject to a prequalification
    test and we cannot guarantee that the line would pass but the customer would
    still incur an installation charge.

    I am sorry that my reply is not favourable

    Kindest regards,
    ***************
    Escalations Manager
    Customer Care Marketing


  • #24
    flamegrill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭flamegrill


    Shin:

    ROFL, I'm not laughing at you here, I'm laughing at eircom :)

    I got a letter not two weeks ago stating the following:

    Dear Mr. Kelly

    I am responding to your query about eircom i-stream.

    Due to the sensitivity of the technology involved, eircom i-stream is not available to customers universally. Each customer's ability to get service is affected by certain factors:

    </snip>

    They then outline what the factors are yadda yadda :)

    Anyway long story short Mr Thomas Ryan for eircom, if your listening, first of all communication is a good thing, before answering anyones query about dsl have a check with yer tech guys first.

    I got DSL from netsource today, I ordered it last week and today i came home and the router was there smiling at me :)

    Rang them up got a user/pass combo and now im surfing at 512kbit/s :)

    Eircom you suck!

    Paul

    p.s. shin, send me yer details via email and I'll see what info i can dig up on your line :)


  • #25
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    Originally posted by Muck
    ESAT have a system in place for 40 exchanges where they installed kit last year and they have the data to hand.


    M
    No, it is worse than that according to the document.
    Esat BT contends that provision of this data in bulk format is desirable. Esat BT will then be able to readily identify the suitability of lines for DSL rather than relying on the current process which involves a pre-order request to eircom for each individual line. This is a highly manual and time consuming process for both Esat BT and eircom resulting in inefficiencies and poor service to consumers wishing to identify whether their lines can be DSL enabled.
    This means that there is no way "Within 2 seconds he'd given me the all clear" could have occured without the Esat salesperson making it up on the spot.


  • #26
    shinzon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭shinzon


    Originally posted by flamegrill
    Shin:

    ROFL, I'm not laughing at you here, I'm laughing at eircom :)

    I got a letter not two weeks ago stating the following:

    Dear Mr. Kelly

    I am responding to your query about eircom i-stream.

    Due to the sensitivity of the technology involved, eircom i-stream is not available to customers universally. Each customer's ability to get service is affected by certain factors:

    </snip>

    They then outline what the factors are yadda yadda :)

    Anyway long story short Mr Thomas Ryan for eircom, if your listening, first of all communication is a good thing, before answering anyones query about dsl have a check with yer tech guys first.

    I got DSL from netsource today, I ordered it last week and today i came home and the router was there smiling at me :)

    Rang them up got a user/pass combo and now im surfing at 512kbit/s :)

    Eircom you suck!

    Paul

    p.s. shin, send me yer details via email and I'll see what info i can dig up on your line :)

    thx m8 i will

    shin


  • #27
    Urban Weigl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭Urban Weigl


    Shin, it isn't possible for your line to pass for business ADSL, but fail for RADSL -- at least not from a technical perspective.

    The reason is that Eircom only test for 256kbps when installing RADSL, but they test for 1mbps for their business ADSL product.

    Point this out to them.


  • #28
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,289 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Originally posted by Urban Weigl
    Shin, it isn't possible for your line to pass for business ADSL, but fail for RADSL -- at least not from a technical perspective.
    since when have realistic technical arguments been part of the €ircon ethos?
    Point this out to them.
    as if they will listen / care

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  • #29
    flamegrill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭flamegrill


    As I said yesterday i got a lovely letter from eircom :)

    here it is in all its glory. To avoid any confusion about this matter I now have RADSL and its work sweetly :), I got a good chuckle out of this hehehe :)

    Eircom Letter

    :)

    Paul

    [edit] Just for the record, I could have gotten any of eircom's product, I'm not limited to their starter package. (I got netsource like :))
    [/edit]


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