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Brownian Motion

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭brownian


    Went for a jog at the end of yesterday's meeting with my friend and work partner DOG. He's an ultra hound really, so was expecting a long slow spin, but the boot went down from moment one, and we basically sat on 4:20 pace for the duration. There are no nice running spots, at least that we found, in the Hospitalet Llobregas (sp?) part of Barca, but we saw lots of industrial estates, trucks, sheds, warehouses and trucks. Nice to stretch the legs, tho, before heading in for a load of food and vino.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭brownian


    Not a run to go down in history. A hard week in work and lots of pre-Christmas stress (kids, anyone?) left me not really feeling the love and looking down the barrel of 25+km. Really, I've been running 25 or so for about 3 or 4 weeks now, and it's time to move up to the big 30...maybe next week.

    Anyway, off to Roundwood, park by the waterworks, and around the lake we go. Slogging a bit, but taking it hand as it's pretty damn cold (last day in shorts? Probably). The North shore section pretty nasty and muddy, too. Then hit new soft earth/gravel stuff, clearly someone has been working on the path, to make it less manky. That's nice in the long run, less so right now. Even less so when I find myself nose to tail to a dumper-truck doing about 5km an hour in the same direction I am...so lost a few minutes jogging slowly behind it, as the darkness starts to think about falling. These winter days are Short - gotta start getting out of the pit earlier 8-(.

    Anyway, around a second time, doing a sort of loop to avoid the trailmakers, and then a final time, to push it all up above the 25km mark. Car, dress, warm, stretch, drink milk, drive home.

    So what's going on with the crappy pace? Compared to say two or three weeks back, where 25km took a LOT less time? Some theories
    - just wasn't in the mood (true, but HTFU)
    - ground poor underfoot a lot of the time (true, but not that big an issue)
    - cold (true, probably did cost a couple of minutes)
    - no food en route (true, and perhaps a real issue - some part of my brain is playing with this 'run empty to learn to burn fat' notion; while not entirely empty, it was 4+ hours since breakfast, and I just had some water before starting.
    - little liquid en route; did stop twice at the car for a few sips, but maybe a third of a pint overall.
    - insufficient training (quite possible - just on 7km run between my 22km in Barcelona and Saturday's 27. Things are not set to improve; am about to head to Southampton for all day event tomorrow...)

    So, maybe it's time to start reading the 'meet up for training' thread on the main forum, and getting over to the PP of a Sunday, rather than driving down to Wicklow. That might help to 'feel the love' a bit more, as the solo training can be a bit draining....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭brownian


    So, not a fast run today, but it also didn't feel like one. A few stretches, a few core exercises, on with This American Life on the podcaster, and out to the park. Ten handy kms with just moderate effort; I'm conscious that it's 4 days since my last confession, and that last weekend's effort was nothing to write home about, so I took it easy on myself, and am encouraged by how easy it all felt. I did break a sweat, but nothing too savage.

    This American Life wasn't a bad podcast to try - this episode all about tic-tac-toe playing chickens in death row court cases, wild turkeys gone bad, and gone down, and foie gras without force feeding (yes, it's the annual Poultry issue).

    Hoping the weather doesn't make running too too ugly at the weekend - as it is, getting time around the shopping, ferrying and other Xmas stuff will be a challenge.

    Company food and drink tonight - aim not to go too baloobas.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 311 ✭✭DarByrne1980


    brownian wrote: »
    Company food and drink tonight - aim not to go too baloobas.

    really enjoying this log brownian - jayus its a long time since i heard the word baloobas!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭brownian


    really enjoying this log brownian - jayus its a long time since i heard the word baloobas!

    Jasus DB - you need to get out more. This may be the dullest log on Boards 8-)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭brownian


    Having howevered around the 15-mile mark for a few weekends, it was finally time to start pushing on. The overall pre-Donadea plan is to peak out at about 40km at about the 21st of Jan, and then taper down, marathon style. If that was ever going to happen, it was time to get the act together.

    The boss is away this weekend, so I left the two baby toddlers (14 and 17, actually, call off the child police) on their own in the house, but didn't bother with the long overhead of driving down to Wicklow. The last time I did that, and ran around the lake in Roundwood (scroll up), the net result wasn't that fantastic anyway. So, decided just to run down to Bray and back. According to Google maps, I'd have to run from Deansgrange to about 3km on the Bray/Greystones cliff walk, and back, to hit the 32km (20 miles, of course) mark.

    I made a bit of an effort to warm up - 5 minutes on the stationary bike, then some core exercises. A cup of coffee to clear out the pipes (to steal a krustyism), a half pint of water to combat dehydration and out the door. Also took along two gels - I plan to take one every 10k in Donadea, so a certain amount of field testing is appropriate at this stage. I go for the weaker isogels, that need no water - on a run through the burbs, the likelihood of water fountains is slim enough. As it turned out, it rained pretty frequently, so thirst wasn't much of an issue.

    Anyway, the route's as exciting as you expect - Deansgrange Cross, Ballybrack, Killiney Hill Road, Shankhill, Shanganagh (duck into the park here, for 3km off the road, and to enable me to turn around before dropping down the hill into Bray town); turn around at the Connaught Road junction in Bray, back to Shanganagh, another loop of the park (good podcast on This American Life about fundamental mormonism), then back the way we came. Climbing back up Killiney Hill Road into Ballybrack was a bit ugly. Back in the usual park, hit the engines a bit to see if I could follow the Book of Krusty, and finish any way strong.

    The pace isn't magnificent - 4:30 on average; I didn't do a lot of stopping (twice for ten seconds each, maybe, to open gels, and a couple more times to change podcast), but it's a reasonable steady slog. Looking back at the km splits, I didn't actually find any extra speed, though I did increase the perceived effort over the last 5km. Shame - it felt like 4:10-4:15 pace, but the watch says 4:30, pretty much.

    Could I have gone for another 20? To be honest, I'm not sure I could have done - there was a small twinge in my left calf (not a pretty tight achilles, this morning). Maybe..if I went a bit slower for the last 20.

    Now, let's see can I post a picture...5db76Mv.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    you're doing long runs, but it doesn't look like you're doing any other runs?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭brownian


    The 'plan' such as it is, is 2x10-15km during the week, and 1x20+ at the weekend. Notionally, the mid-week runs are faster (about 4:10/km, but would like to get it down closer to 4:00) and the weekends are slower (about 4:30, but would like to get down towards 4:15).

    Unfortunately, there's been an inordinate amount of travel over the last several weeks, and this has messed up my mid-week runs. Also, I've picked up a small niggle on the long run this week (could be due to lack of shorter runs, mid-week!), and so will end up with (at most) one shorter run this week, likely tomorrow. The niggle is healing nicely, but I'm going to cycle this evening rather than run, just to be on the safe side.

    That make sense, or am I being really daft in my approach?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    You're planning to do your long run at close to race pace, and all your other runs faster than that. The long run is half your weekly distance, more sometimes, and it all seems very light for 50k training. Wouldn't you be better off adding more, easier runs to your schedule?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭brownian


    RayCun wrote: »
    You're planning to do your long run at close to race pace, and all your other runs faster than that. The long run is half your weekly distance, more sometimes, and it all seems very light for 50k training. Wouldn't you be better off adding more, easier runs to your schedule?

    Yes, you're probably right. I've always struggled to find time and enthusiasm for slower-paced running, even though I know the wisdom is 'easy easy runs, hard hard runs' or words to that effect. By and large, I let the legs do the thinking, and then wonder why I'm stiff and sore for two days afterwards :rolleyes: Even training for marathons where I was actually focused on a time, I found it hard to get beyond 40 miles a week. For a 50km run, I 'ought' to be running a fair bit more - but a 10k run takes about an hour and a half out of my work day (which stretches from 0900 to 2200 most days - I know, poor work life balance), and while upping it to, say, 10 miles or 20k would be feasible, I can't see myself running more than 3 or so times a week. Maybe I should take that approach - adding 6k, say, would only cost half an hour - the stretch and shower overheads are the same for 10k as 10 miles.

    Looking ahead to Donadea (which is racing up on us), I can't see much scope for major increases in mileage. By the time we get past the million distractions of Christmas, we're close to taper time. As a result, I fear I might suffer a bit on the day; if I do, hopefully that'll encourage me to take a more considered approach next time.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭brownian


    Despite carrying a few small niggles from last weekend, I reckoned that Thursday was the absolute latest I could leave my first mid-week run (!) this week. I would have run yesterday (really), but the left Achilles was still tweaking a bit, so instead I put in 30 sweaty minutes on the stationery bike and did some core work.

    Anyway, today was back on the road (or at least the footpath and the park). Things felt a bit wooden-legged to start, but once I got into the park at Deansgrange Cross-roads I started to loosen out. A nice tail-breeze pushed me along handy enough; on the way back, it was less supportive, but more from the side than on the nose. Once warmed up, it felt pretty effortless, and I just chugged along. This illustrates what I said above in response to RayCun - the legs just churn along, and it would take an effort of will to run slower.

    Splits
    4.06
    4.02
    4.10
    4.06
    4.15
    4.23
    4.18
    4.16
    4.24
    4.16

    You can see the headwind effect on the way back.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    if you're limited to three runs a week, maybe after Donadea focus on shorter distances, 5k or 10k, and make one of those three runs a session?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭brownian


    Good idea.

    Sadly, I rather like the long runs, even though I don't train for them properly. But there's lots of room for improvement in PB at 10k (37 odd, but 14 years ago) and 5k (18:05), and sharpening up at this end might follow through to 13 or 26 miles. The 50k is a bit of an aberration - I wanted something to focus on over the darker months, and knew my pace was poor, but that endurance base was available.

    After Donadea I'm signed up for Connemara. I might conceivably break 1:25 for the half - that'd be a PB, but I'd take 1:29:59. I can't see myself breaking 2:57 for the full. The Ultra is reasonable step up from Donadea, if I recover any way well. Secretly (not all that secret, this is boards, after all), I'd not mind at all doing the ultra, having marveled at the hard guys for about ten runs of the half (and one full).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭brownian


    Have been staying off my dubious left Achilles tendon for the last several days. Also got a new pair of Brooks Ghost 7s, and some heel lifts, as the current pair of Brooks feel a bit wooden.

    After an early dip at the 40 foot (cold, but not as cold as it might have been), I took the tendons, shoes and lifts out for a test run today - easy 10k in Kilbogget park, as usual. After 3k I took out the heel lifts, as the running felt a bit odd with them in. Overall it was fine - the left Achilles was present, but not sore, and in fact the right calf was louder in its complaints (tho I think it was just noise, not injury). Home to stretch, a little foam rolling and so on. The big question is - how will it feel in a couple of hours?

    Ideally, I'd like to get a longish run on the 27th (say, 20k), and again on the 29th or 30th. If then convinced that things are back to normal healthy service, look at 35 or so in the first week of the New year...and see if I can max out with a marathon around the 10th or 15th, before tapering for Donadea. It's all a bit sketchy; this achilles thing wasn't part of the plan. I can see myself lining up in Donadea with 32 as my longest training run, and still dubious Achilles.

    Anyway, that's enough of that. Happy Christmas!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 311 ✭✭DarByrne1980


    deadly stuff brownian. i for 1 have enjoyed ur logging. u never know 2015 cud bring the turaround in dat achilies that u need for Dondeaa. Looking forward to continuining to follow ur progress. Dar


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭brownian


    So, headed off down the Burren for the few days after Xmas. Got 25 lovely kms in the first day, doing the Caher valley loop walk and some of the Black head loop. Amazing scenery, some challenging climbs, all good. Next day, out again in the rain, over the Caher valley, just 16km. Hill walking next 2 days; one about 17km in howling howling gales (Black Head Loop), the next an easy 12km stroll from Fanore to Ballyvaughan as the wind fell off. All good.

    Saturday was to be the big run day - 30-40km depending on how things went. Up the Caher valley to the very end, then turn R towards Lisdoonvarna and then back northwards to the home base in Fanore. Left the house full of zip and bounce after the two days of no running. But after 5km the right calf was tightening up nastily. There's a lot of climbing, albeit gentle enough, and there was pain in both heels (on the sides of the heel itself). The old left achilles seems to have sorted itself out, though. Anyway, did a few stretches, ran on (up) another km. This was getting daft, the pain was building - so turned for home. 1km of downhill and all felt great - maybe it just needed a bit of speed to loosen out. Turned back again. Up another 3km, to the very top of the Caher valley. Sore again. Gave up, turned home. Jog/walk/limp for a couple of Ks, but right knee building up pain and IT band getting tighter....rang for rescue. Not a happy bunny.

    Went for a short walk to the pub on Sunday (4km each way), uncomfortable but no real pain. Clearly there's an injury here, but walking doesn't make it worse.

    Drove home yesterday.

    Today both legs remain stiff and sore (as they have every morning for the last few weeks), with the right calf a particular issue. Going for some dry needling in UCD on Wednesday, and hoping for a miracle cure to get Donadea back in my sights.

    The issues
    - sore heels (both feet, both sides of both heels)... are the shoes wrong for me?
    - left achilles - not bothering me much, but still tight and a potential future issue
    - right calf - currently in poor state on upper outside muscle. Doesn't seem profoundly hurt, but definitely not right.
    - right knee - tender, I think due to pull from calf and IT band.

    What next?
    Despite the not exactly miles-heavy regime to date, if I can get back on my legs for Donadea I'm going to train less - keep my distances around 20km and just hope for race-day energy. I don't think the back to back runs in Clare did me any good, and while the hill-running on the green roads was very enjoyable, I suspect that's not ideal training for longer distances.

    Post-Donadea (if it happens) I need to rethink my running; slower running has never been a strong point, but I need to do something to reduce my injury quotient.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭brownian


    Took a week off, then did a couple of 10ks. Calf still bothering me. Dry needling didn't help, but am unimpressed with the individual who did it, rather than the treatment, and will try again on Monday.

    Sadly, am reduced to a strategy of 'see how much better you can get by 1 Feb, do a couple of runs up to 20k, and then see how you go on the 14th'. Not the Donadea strategy I had in mind, and a decent chance of a DNF...but what can yo do. I won't injure myself (further), even for the glory of a black t-shirt.

    Hmm


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,672 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    Good luck with whatever you decide, but personally I think you're mad to consider a 50k off that training and given your propensity to injury.

    TbL


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,092 ✭✭✭BeepBeep67


    brownian wrote: »
    Took a week off, then did a couple of 10ks. Calf still bothering me. Dry needling didn't help, but am unimpressed with the individual who did it, rather than the treatment, and will try again on Monday.

    Sadly, am reduced to a strategy of 'see how much better you can get by 1 Feb, do a couple of runs up to 20k, and then see how you go on the 14th'. Not the Donadea strategy I had in mind, and a decent chance of a DNF...but what can yo do. I won't injure myself (further), even for the glory of a black t-shirt.

    Hmm

    Come down to Donedea anyway, do 5-7-8-10 laps whatever takes your fancy, it's a great day out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭brownian


    Not having touched the tarmac with a runner since the most recent Conn half, and having been welded to a bike for most of the interim, the return of the winter sends me back to Amphibian King for a new pair of runners, and thence to the well-trodden trails of Kilbogget park.

    First day back today; just ran down as far as the road crossing, and back. Easy pace, short distance - the aim being to avoid zero-training injuries. Enjoyable enough, tho I find my new runners (Sauconys) have less heel-drop than usual (8mm, while I'd be used to 10 or 12), and this takes a little getting used to.

    Enjoyable enough, no major issues. Sights are set on hill-running, but that's a few weeks away anyway.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭brownian


    Poor logging on my part.

    Since the last entry...

    another tentative slow 5k in Kilbogget
    12 slow and hilly ks with the Tuesday night Dun Laoghaire group, with my good friend Shane L.

    The usual 10k effort in Kilbogget this morning.

    Lovely morning, once the rain stopped, no wind at all, clean pathways. Good to hit several kms in sub-4.20 pace, though at my stage of training that's probably going a bit hard. Running listening to the body is fine, until the body starts to talk sh!te.

    Today was a test run of my new Gore One running jacket. I wore my lightest thermal underneath, a sort of glorified fishnet Brynje top..but still ended up pretty sweaty, with the thermal well wet. The jacket itself remained reasonably dry on the inside (no rain, so totally dry on the outside). A shower would have been useful, to test out the gear...no doubt the weekend will provide 8-)

    Off to Mayo in the morning for an uncle's birthday; might get out early Sunday, before coming home to head straight to Berlin for work....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭brownian


    Got a decent jog around Glendalough in, on Saturday - cool day, overcast, not much wind (ideal running conditions, really). 24km of 'Run the Ridge' route, plus a decent dead-end mistake, for added spice. Lots of wildlife - deer, squirrels, Dutch tourists.....

    Very slow (about 7 minute kms), but given how tired the legs were on the endless descent from Derrybawn, probably just a well!

    Also a couple of the usual 10 ks around Kilbogget - fairly steady on 4:2x on average.

    Not really sure the low-drop Sauconys are suiting me...but the thought of buying yet another pair of runners...would lead to retaliatory hand-bag shopping for sure 8-)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭brownian


    The trouble with all this fancy strava, facebook and garmin stuff, is that it makes you neglect your logging on the forum that really matters....

    So a quick recap
    - another three 10ks in Kilbogget. One fairly hard (42 minutes odd), one a bit easier (45 or 46). Pace is improving a bit. Some of these are pre-breakfast 'fasted' runs...which aren't any harder than post-breakfast ones. The main issue is cold, stiff legs, rather than an empty belly.
    - a fairly epic 3 or 4 hours in Glendalough, with the unfortunate Shane, running up the Spink steps, over to the Wicklow Way col, up onto Lugduff, through the peat-hag maze to Lough Firrib, swimming the knee-deep bog to Turlough Hill, and then finally up and down Camaderry. A really good day out, but certainly not a fast run. 95 fairly hard K on the bike the next day rounded off the weekend.

    - to make up for that, last Saturday (5th Nov) was on-road, aiming to pick up pace a bit. Poor route choice on my part (a Wicklow loop around Garryduff, Moneystown, Ballard, Clara Vale, Croneybyrne) meant it was nearly all uphill, apart from a single long, steep downhill....unsurprisingly, pace was a bit underwhelming, and I was properly shattered afterwards. A gentler 65k on the bike on Sunday, as cross-training.

    Hard time of year to dress for. I repeatedly go out with too many clothes on, for the longer runs, and end up carrying stuff. But a very light thermal, plus a thin thin cycling jersey, seems to be a reasonable way to go...and one that allows me to carry a very small running jacket, in case the weather goes to cack. Whatever about on the road, finding yourself between Lugduff and Lough Firrib in a heavy shower, without some sort of waterproof, could be deeply miserable.

    This week I'm in Holland for a couple of days - hopefully still get a reasonable amount of running done.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭brownian


    ps picked up a pair of Brooks Ghost 8s cheap on Amazon. I think I do prefer the longer (12mm) drop, over the Sauconys.


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