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UK Votes to leave EU

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,019 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    I really haven't been following her to be honest, but she is the MP for my old town and I know she is very popular there. My wife has met her numerous times and she loves her.

    I was chatting to an ex Met police inspector over the summer and he was full of praise for her as well. They way she reformed the police Federation, in his opinion, was nothing short of brilliant, which made him pretty unique among his peers.

    She has been a bit of a star in the Tory party for a while now and she was given a very safe seat, so they obviously believe in her. I tend to think that means she probably sin't either a psycho, Stupid or indeed has an "I'm alright jack" attitude.

    time will tell, or maybe it is just wishful thinking on my behalf. We have just witnessed 52% of the population do something stupid, who's to say it isn't contagious.

    I have a feeling that May's tactics are more based on internal political considerations than on external factors. I think she's more than likely to take the safe choice which will guarantee that she lasts as PM.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    That scenario is more of an if than a when.
    And would require quite a considerable economic downturn to happen.
    Only one country's talking about independence.
    I think talk of the union breaking up is a tad premature.

    If Scotland wants another referendum on independence then they would have to negotiate it with Westminster.
    They can't do it alone.

    Ah it's a when scenario without doubt. Public opinion over here (England) seems to be against funding the statelet. No one's going to fund a sectarian paradise for ever. Especially not a post Brexit UK.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear



    If Scotland wants another referendum on independence then they would have to negotiate it with Westminster.
    They can't do it alone.
    Didnt stop us.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    The Scottish referendum is for the Scottish people alone.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,046 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Grayson wrote: »
    I have a feeling that May's tactics are more based on internal political considerations than on external factors. I think she's more than likely to take the safe choice which will guarantee that she lasts as PM.

    Because the consequences of a hard Brexit are unlikely to affect the Tory heartland or at the worst they will be moderately affected. The blackspots of the remaining empire will be hugely affected though.
    Never bothered a Tory gov much in the past.

    The blackspot of NI will dengerate very quickly. I was talking to a NI accountant today and he told me that money is already moving out and that anyone who thinks Westminster is going to replace EU money is a deluded fool.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    If Scotland wants another referendum on independence then they would have to negotiate it with Westminster. They can't do it alone.


    Of course they can. It would not have any legal standing but then, neither did the one last May.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,853 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    VinLieger wrote: »
    How many widgets does England export compared to how many it imports?
    oddly enough almost exactly the same for the main categories. If you exclude a one off dump of Gold and pair Rolls Royce gas turbine to imported computers then most of the big name items match. So no winnable trade war, no big ticket items to get an exemption. It's not like Norway which can point out that the EU needs raw materials and energy and imports lots of consumer goods. The UK just doesn't have any niche that the EU really needs.


    LOOK at this. , Compare the values as well as the sizes.
    http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/gbr/

    However, in 2014 the United Kingdom exported $472B and imported $663B. The difference is services. The big ticket items balance but it's the myriad of little that make up the imbalance and they ones that cause trade negotiations to drag on and on. The financial gap is made up stuff like services, and tourism. A huge chunk of those depend on having free access to the EU.


    The problem is that it's all the small items, the ones that cause trade negotiations to drag on and on, that make up the imbalance. And political clout will be a factor for small industries. It's possible that the ones without it might be offered as sacrificial lambs in the negotiations.


    And of anyone I'd expect the UK Torys to understand sacrificing some manufacturing business to win services. It's what they've been doing to the UK since Maggie. And they're setting up the UK to be on the receiving it ?
    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2016/1005/821560-hard-brexit-could-cost-uk-financial-industry-l38/
    The British financial industry could lose up to £38 billion (€43 billion) in revenue in a so-called 'hard Brexit' that would leave it with restricted access to the European Union's single market, according to a report commissioned by a financial industry group.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    English politicians telling the Scots they shan't have a referendum would be a surefire way of ensuring it happens and would probably help increase the leave vote.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    The Scottish referendum is for the Scottish people alone.
    Spain would not let Scotland in to the EU : they want to discourage part of their own country going independent.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    maryishere wrote: »
    Spain would not let Scotland in to the EU : they want to discourage part of their own country going independent.

    Who knows.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    maryishere wrote: »
    Spain would not let Scotland in to the EU : they want to discourage part of their own country going independent.

    Technically Scotland is already in the EU.

    Quite frankly I'd like to see what would happen if Scotland did negotiate independence before the UK actually left the EU, or whether Article 50 as invoked by current UK would even be valid if the UK broke up and the entity which invoked it no longer essentially existed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    maryishere wrote:
    Spain would not let Scotland in to the EU : they want to discourage part of their own country going independent.

    They also want Gibraltar back. Britain - or more specifically England - won't get much sympathy in Madrid.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,853 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    De Gaulle was an "Interesting" character and his interest in the EEC was purely for the benefit of France. British involvement would only serve to diminish this.

    he was a very difficult person to like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_de_Gaulle
    Le Manège enchanté was a French children's program

    The BBC took it and used a new script. The dog became a grumpy self important character called Dougal. Obviously not a slur on de Gaulle, no sireee , no way.


    You may know it as The Magic Roundabout. No not that one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,046 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    First Up wrote: »
    They also want Gibraltar back. Britain - or more specifically England - won't get much sympathy in Madrid.

    Any former co!ony that is clinging on to what was only a notion at the end of the day i.e. 'Britain' cannot be feeling secure ATM. Everything is in play.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    quickest way to win gibraltar is to offer dual citizenship.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    VinLieger wrote: »
    They can have an advisory referendum just like the Brexit one and if it's ignored point out the ridiculous levels of hypocrisy involved

    Ignore the pony he does not get that Westminster does not understand advisory.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Ah it's a when scenario without doubt. Public opinion over here (England) seems to be against funding the statelet. No one's going to fund a sectarian paradise for ever. Especially not a post Brexit UK.
    I'm talking about a scenario where they are no longer subsidised.
    Which at the moment is most definitely and if rather then a when.
    catbear wrote: »
    Didnt stop us.
    From negotiating the Anglo-Irish treaty with Westminster. :confused:


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,853 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    From 2012 http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/top-expert-warns-northern-ireland-economy-is-facing-meltdown-28779242.html
    The tax expert warned without a reduction in corporation tax the local economy was not sustainable. “The running cost of Northern Ireland is £20bn a year of which we contribute about £9bn in taxes. The British taxpayer is not going to continue giving us £11bn a year indefinitely.”

    The British taxpayer is not going to continue giving us £11bn a year indefinitely


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,853 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    maryishere wrote: »
    Spain would not let Scotland in to the EU : they want to discourage part of their own country going independent.
    The precedent was when Greenland separated, leaving the much smaller Denmark in the EU.

    Greenland had a population 1/1000th of the UK. Still took three years for the negations. And that was with Denmark on their side , no manufacturing , no services and over the single issue of fishing rights.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Le Manège enchanté was a French children's program

    The BBC took it and used a new script. The dog became a grumpy self important character called Dougal. Obviously not a slur on de Gaulle, no sireee , no way.


    You may know it as The Magic Roundabout. No not that one.

    I remember it well. It was actually an Anglo French creation. In the French version, Dougal was English hence his love for sugar lumps apparently.:confused:

    Anyway..booiingg...time for bed


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    The precedent was when Greenland separated, leaving the much smaller Denmark in the EU.

    Greenland had a population 1/1000th of the UK. Still took three years for the negations. And that was with Denmark on their side , no manufacturing , no services and over the single issue of fishing rights.

    Didn't the Faroe islands leave for pretty much the same reason? I've never really taken an interest in fishing rights, but the CFP seems to be pretty much despised by any one in the industry.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,803 ✭✭✭Roanmore


    http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/which-eu-law-are-you-looking-forward-to-losing/

    I've asked a few people who voted No the same question, get the same answer as well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Roanmore wrote: »
    http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/which-eu-law-are-you-looking-forward-to-losing/

    I've asked a few people who voted No the same question, get the same answer as well.

    It's scary beyond belief. Then when successful businessman like JC Bamford come out on the leave side, you know the world really has gone bat**** crazy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,960 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Didn't the Faroe islands leave for pretty much the same reason? I've never really taken an interest in fishing rights, but the CFP seems to be pretty much despised by any one in the industry.
    It's unpopular in the industry because it has seriously cut back the amount of fish they are allowed to catch.

    But that's a feature, not a bug. Fish stocks declined dramatically in the decades before the CFP was introduced, due to fairly massive overfishing. The catch limits were painful, but they have worked as intended; stocks have stabilised, and even modestly increased, since the CFP was introduced.

    The effect of Brexit on the UK fishing industry is unclear. While in principle the UK will have its own fishing grounds which they can regulate how they like, they can't avoid the reality that, from a haddock's point of view, the North Sea is just one big undivided area. Mackerel, herring and cod are all highly mobile; British fishing grounds are right next to Norwegian, German, Danish, Dutch, Belgian and French fishing grounds, and they are all fishing from the same fish stocks. So, unless it's to be open season for one and all until the stocks are completely fished out, they are still going to have to agree with one another on fisheries policy. Norway already does this from outside the EU; they UK has no real option but to do the same. And there's a fairly widespread consensus that the present catch levels are about right, in terms of sustainability.

    Other relevant points: The UK fishing fleet fishes extensively in non-UK waters, and lands about 25% of its catch at non-UK ports. It would like to be able to keep doing this, but obviously that will require a quid-pro-quo for the EU-27 fleet. Plus, much of the catch landed in the UK is of fish types that British people don't like to eat; it gets exported to other EU countries (80% is exported, in fact). And much of the fish types that British people do like to eat are imported from other EU countries. So, unless the national palate can be reeducated fairly radically, UK fishermen quite like the free movement of fish and fishing vessels.

    All in all, when Brexit happens and the UK has to renegotiate the fishing arrangements that apply to British waters, the likelihood is that they're going to want to reinvent the wheel, more or less; to negotiate an arrangement with the EU that looks a lot like the present Common Fisheries Policy. Which is not that surprising, when you think about it, since the UK was one of the countries that negotiated the present Common Fisheries Policy.

    A reinvented wheel is rarely completely circular, so there will probably be some changes around the margins. But those changes won't necessarily favour the UK; other countries will bring their own agendas to the discussions, and there'll be some horsetrading. But it's probably telling that the main industry representative bodies and organisations in the UK were basically neutral about Brexit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    I watched Question Time last night. The had a Daily Mail columnist on. She was talking about project fear and rebuking those complaining remoaners.

    There's a phenomenon going on in the UK right now where any consequences or perceived consequences of Brexit is met with "you lost the vote, Brexit is happening". In other words they think the fact that Brexit is was voted in means that everyone who said there'll be consequences to the economy was wrong and should shut up.

    I think those people who don't want to hear the consequences or the realities of Brexit wold benefit with a hit to the pockets.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭GreenFolder2


    There a big problem in the UK with the fact that aspects of the print media are not just newspapers. They behave more like lobbyists or even political parties.

    It's weird to see media outlets taking campaigning stances.

    Fox News in the US is very much in the same model.

    It's not journalism. It's opinion writing and editorialising at best and actual political lobbying at worst.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,193 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    There a big problem in the UK with the fact that aspects of the print media are not just newspapers. They behave more like lobbyists or even political parties.

    It's weird to see media outlets taking campaigning stances.

    Fox News in the US is very much in the same model.

    It's not journalism.

    Fox arent the only ones in fairness, you arent able to operate as a news org in the US unless you have some partisan agenda


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭GreenFolder2


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Fox arent the only ones in fairness, you arent able to operate as a news org in the US unless you have some partisan agenda

    True but Fox is probably one of the more extreme mainstream examples.

    I don't just mean the right wing either. There are similarly agenda driving left wing papers and outlets.

    You have to be able to mix it up and actually take the stance that you're genuinely independent of politics as an editor and that should mean mixing up your points of view.

    Some of the Irish papers actually do a better job by throwing in articles from multiple different points of view.

    I quite like when I don't agree with a particular writer in the Irish Times or the Examiner. I don't really want a paper that just writes things I completely agree with all the time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    There a big problem in the UK with the fact that aspects of the print media are not just newspapers. They behave more like lobbyists or even political parties.

    It's weird to see media outlets taking campaigning stances.

    Fox News in the US is very much in the same model.

    It's not journalism.

    But watching Question time it seems that a large majority have bought into the whole immigrants are bad thing. I'm paying taxes to these morons. If they want to buy all this isolationist Great Britain BS then they'll suffer alone. I'm certainly leaving the country after the rest of my contract is up.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    I think the reactions of Brexiters to the falling pound and to anyone daring to point out some negative consequences is interesting. Surely, if you believe Brexit is going to be a success, they could argue as to why these issues are not that big a deal, as opposed to the nonsense about "remoaners" or whatever nonsense they can come up with.

    Also, the victim mentality they have vis a vi the EU. They seem to believe that the club they chose to leave (the reasons being rather hilariously due to stuff there own elected governments supported over the years) owes them something, and that denying them the benefits of the membership, which again they chosen to end, is some how vindictive behavior. Its hilarious the amount of sheer arrogance, and entitlement that is being displayed. Brexit is Brexit, right?

    At the end of the day, if the EU is so awful, then why are so many Brexiters annoyed by the EU position? After all the UK can now make all those wonderful trade deals in like a few months or whatever time line they have. What the big deal? If the EU is so awful, then so what if they lose financial pass porting, and so what if there are tariffs, while a free trade deal is sorted out?

    The Brexiters are surprisingly worried about being close to the EU, for people who believe it to be the root of all there countries problems. They shouldn't be surprised that the EU, isn't going to be black mailed by them, and accept that there leaving and it might be not be on the great terms promised by Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage. Its seem that EU understands this better than some Brexiters, out is out!


This discussion has been closed.
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