UK Votes to leave EU

maryishere · 13-10-2016 12:08AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Including the British banks who stood to lose much more than they 'loaned' us if we'd have not had such spineless goons running the show. Even the IMF supported Ireland forcing concessions from bondholders.

So are you saying we are not capable of self - government?

FrancieBrady · 13-10-2016 12:11AM

maryishere wrote: »

Most of those who voted to remain in the dreaded EU also thought the UK should have surrendered the pound and adopted the euro 12 or 14 years ago. Those who wanted to retain the £ were proved right, and they will be proved right in time again. May be a turbulent few years, mind, if the EU makes life difficult for all.

Who want to be member of a club where you are punished for leaving, having been its second biggest net contributor? F*** the EU. Its bankers F***ed us.
As the Eagles would sing "You can check out any time you want, but you can never leave"

Rather than the EU being in imminent danger of collapse maybe it is the pound.

And the UK knew it would be a net contributor but still joined as we knew that we would not always receive.
Maybe inform yourself about the EU first before the by now pathetic lovelorn defending.

the evasion_kid · 13-10-2016 12:11AM

maryishere wrote: »

Most of those who voted to remain in the dreaded EU also thought the UK should have surrendered the pound and adopted the euro 12 or 14 years ago. Those who wanted to retain the £ were proved right, and they will be proved right in time again. May be a turbulent few years, mind, if the EU makes life difficult for all.

Who want to be member of a club where you are punished for leaving, having been its second biggest net contributor? F*** the EU. Its bankers F***ed us.
As the Eagles would sing "You can check out any time you want, but you can never leave"

If the eu want to punish the UK and other countries for leaving it just goes to show what the EU has become....it's odd that there is people out there who would champion such a thing

Junkyard Tom · 13-10-2016 12:13AM

maryishere wrote: »

We invited the British along with the IMF and EU to bail us out only a few years ago, when nobody else would lend us any more money.

Speak for yourself when you say 'we'.

Emigration has been very high over the past century from Ireland to other countries which were red on the map 100 years ago.

You've also had huge migration to Britain from its former colonies such was the lands of milk and honey they left behind.

I also did not include Ireland as Gay Byrne said we should hand the country back to the British, with a note of apology.

Post-Colonial Stockholm Syndrome should be included in the DSMV and the truffle-snuffler obviously has a bad bout of it at the time.

Ireland has a much higher standard of living than the part of it in the failed northeast statelet that remained under British rule.

maryishere · 13-10-2016 12:19AM

I think many British people think they should have given tens of billions worth of aid to under-developed parts of the UK like N. Ireland rathewr than to the Republic - remember when Albert "dance hall" Reynolds came back from EC meetings with extra billions each time, when he was Taoiseach?

And the Troika (IMF / UK / EU ) came in several years ago because nobody else would lends us any more money, and the government here wanted to pay the nurses, gardai, teachers, dole, pensioners etc the following month.

Junkyard Tom · 13-10-2016 12:27AM

maryishere wrote: »

I think many British people think they should have given tens of billions worth of aid to under-developed parts of the UK like N. Ireland

If the English people knew how much the failed statelet was costing them they'd probably want to ditch it or at the very least impose harsh poverty-causing fiscal policy.

And the Troika (IMF / UK / EU ) came in several years ago because nobody else would lends us any more money, and the government here wanted to pay the nurses, gardai, teachers, dole, pensioners etc the following month.

You're combining public government debt with banking debt. If many of had had our way the big English/German/EU banks who gambled on the property pyramid would have taken the hit instead of the Irish people. The British banks stood to lose far far more than they 'loaned' 'us'.

FrancieBrady · 13-10-2016 12:37AM

It is endlessly fascinating that the most fervent little Englander is an Irish citizen with an Irish passport (probably in a 'filing cabinet')
I have never heard an English person suffering from similar self delusions.

FrancieBrady · 13-10-2016 12:46AM

Excellent article, particularly the bit that echo's Mary's plaintive 'why does nobody care'

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/10/theresa-may-ukip-conservative-speech/

13-10-2016 12:47AM

maryishere wrote: »

F*** the EU. Its bankers F***ed us.

The majority of the debt build up was due to domestic government economic policy.

http://www.karlwhelan.com/Papers/Whelan-IrelandPaper-June2013.pdf

maryishere · 13-10-2016 12:49AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

If the English people knew how much the failed statelet was costing them they'd probably want to ditch it or at the very least impose harsh poverty-causing fiscal policy.

Supporting N. Ireland does not cost that much per capita to a G7 nation of 60 million people or whatever. It would cripple our corrupt little statelet of only 4 and a half million people. The country is still borrowing money just to keep the lights on , despite the foreign debt now owed byt Ireland at €200, 000,000,000.00 And increasing by the second.

maryishere · 13-10-2016 12:51AM

Deleted User wrote: »

The majority of the debt build up was due to domestic government economic policy.

Correct, and are you saying we are not capable of self - government too?

FrancieBrady · 13-10-2016 12:55AM

maryishere wrote: »

Correct, and are you saying we are not capable of self - government too?

Does the UK needing an IMF bailout mean they are incapable?
Stop being silly.

13-10-2016 12:55AM

maryishere wrote: »

Correct, and are you saying we are not capable of self - government too?

Governing badly from time to time and being not capable of self government aren't the same thing.

Junkyard Tom · 13-10-2016 01:03AM

maryishere wrote: »

Supporting N. Ireland does not cost that much per capita to a G7 nation of 60 million people or whatever.

The northeast is a remnant of British colonialism and if the English people knew that every person of working age cost them about £10,000 per year they'd be up in arms and dump it pretty quick.

our corrupt little statelet

I see you've adopted the terminology I was using, how flattering. Anyway, Ireland is by no means perfect but we Irish accept this as a reality unlike you who seems to believe that Britain with its famines, torture, slavery, mass-murder and current financial sleaze is beyond reproach. That's just a very bizarre position to adopt and I suspect it's fueled by a neurotic hatred of your own nation.

maryishere · 13-10-2016 01:17AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The northeast is a remnant of British colonialism .

The "settlers" have been there longer than white man has been in America, and longer than the Spanish have been in the Canary islands. You could say most parts of the world are remnants of colonialism eg Sicily. Achill was even colonised by the Irish too. Its all rubbish talk : what is important is that everyone in each "disputed area" has a vote.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I see you've adopted the terminology I was using, how flattering..

It was my own terminology. The north is not a corrupt statelet compared to the corruption we saw here with ex Taoiseach Haughey, ex Taoiseach Bertie Ahern (who not not a bank account but made his money on the horses and got dig out from his mates while minister for finance) , the Planning tribunals etc.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

is beyond reproach..

No country is beyond approach. I think you will find that Britain was ahead of the curve in abolishing Slavery compared to other European countries....and had abolished it when other countries still practised it.

Junkyard Tom · 13-10-2016 01:26AM

maryishere wrote: »

The north is not a corrupt statelet compared to the corruption we saw here with ex Taoiseach Haughey, ex Taoiseach Bertie Ahern (who not not a bank account but made his money on the horses and got dig out from his mates while minister for finance) , the Planning tribunals etc.

It was a dirty little sectarian shithole which is why thousands of refugees fled from unionist ethnic cleansing to the south not Britain. It's a failed economic entity and has some of the most stringent anti-discrimination laws in the world to keep unionists in check.

I think you will find that Britain was ahead of the curve in abolishing Slavery

You'll forgive me for laughing at the Paisley-esque interpretation of history. Set fire to the house, walk away while people burn, and then return when the flames are quenched claiming it had nothing to do with you.

Are you an admirer of Ian Paisley?

Grayson · 13-10-2016 01:27AM

So it looks like there's going to be price increases in the UK before Brexit even happens.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/12/tesco-running-low-key-unilever-brands-price-row-supplier-supermarket-falling-pound

maryishere · 13-10-2016 01:34AM

Grayson wrote: »

So it looks like there's going to be price increases in the UK before Brexit even happens.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/12/tesco-running-low-key-unilever-brands-price-row-supplier-supermarket-falling-pound

But their hotels, tourism businesses, factories etc are booming and having a great boost from the stg devaluation. Its not the first time stg has hit 90 cents, so no big deal. Swings and roundabouts.

Junkyard Tom · 13-10-2016 01:53AM

maryishere wrote: »

But their hotels ... are booming

Britain has a trade deficit which means that it imports more 'widgets' than it exports. If Sterling falls against other currencies it means the price of importing 'widgets' rises making British people poorer overall.

Grayson · 13-10-2016 02:16AM

maryishere wrote: »

But their hotels, tourism businesses, factories etc are booming and having a great boost from the stg devaluation. Its not the first time stg has hit 90 cents, so no big deal. Swings and roundabouts.

I'm sure all those tourists going to Sunderland will help. It'll especially help since a lot of groceries are going up by 10% everywhere in the UK in a very short time. Remember that story I mentioned said that the suppliers are putting them up now and Tesco supermarkets around the country are already running out of Unilever products because they won't raise the prices.

Remember that sterling is at an all time low. That's an all time low against everything. It's lower than during the 2008 crash.

It's actually technically at a 168 year low according to the Bank of Englands trade weighted index. that's ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY EIGHT (just in case you have trouble with digits)
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/markets/pound-slumps-to-168-year-low-1.2827172

Do you really think that the UK is going to get enough extra tourists to make it worth the massive increase that everyone is going to have to pay for imported food stuffs etc?

Grayson · 13-10-2016 02:19AM

Here's an interesting piece I found in the Guardian. I think it sums up the delusion that the Brexiters are under

Full article here.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/12/britain-brexit-eu-pound-euro

If you still believe Britain will get a sweet deal out of Brexit because “the EU needs the UK more than vice versa”, ask yourself: why don’t we hear European politicians pleading with Britain “not to punish the EU over Brexit”? Why is the pound plunging against the euro and not the other way around? Why do we not hear of companies escaping from the EU to “free-trading Britain” while there is almost a traffic jam in the other direction? Why do EU leaders look rather relaxed when Brexit comes up, even cracking the odd joke or two about sending the British foreign minister, Boris Johnson, a copy of the Lisbon treaty so he can read up on reality?

The negotiating cards with the EU are “incredibly stacked our way”, the Brexit minister, David Davis, told the House of Commons on Monday. The cards certainly are “incredibly stacked” – but not in the way Davis imagines.

To understand why, get a map of the EU and find Slovenia, a nation of 2 million people. No, that is Slovakia, with 5.4 million, almost three times bigger. Next look up Lithuania (population: 3.3 million), Latvia (2 million), Estonia (1.3 million) and Luxembourg (500,000).

Now repeat after me: all these EU members, as well as the other 21, hold veto power over whatever deal the UK (65 million) manages to negotiate with the EU (population: 508 million).

That is right, 1.2 million Cypriots can paralyse the British economy by blocking a deal, and the same holds true for Malta (400,000). Did I mention the Walloon parliament in Namur (get that atlas out again) has veto power too? And then there is, of course, the European parliament in Strasbourg.

Brexiteers argue that the EU takes ages to conclude trade deals so Britain is better off striking them on its own. The former is certainly true. Consider the Walloons currently threatening to derail an EU trade deal with Canada. But how does EU institutional sluggishness square with the Brexiteers’ promise that the EU is even capable of concluding a swift Brexit deal with the UK, even if it wanted to do? It doesn’t.

And this is true even before we look at whether the EU would have an interest in making things easy for Britain. Remember how, before the EU referendum, David Cameron went to Brussels threatening to support leave unless he was given a range of “concessions”? Well, two can play that game, now that the tables have turned – except the EU has 27 nations. That is a lot of scope for blackmail à l’anglaise.

To make things worse, while 44% of British exports go to the EU single market, British politicians have gone out of their way to undermine, disparage and insult the very parliaments and institutions that now hold so much power over them.

13-10-2016 06:13AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

If the English people knew how much the failed statelet was costing them they'd probably want to ditch it or at the very least impose harsh poverty-causing fiscal policy.............

Ah...No.. Thats the EU way of doing things.

13-10-2016 06:30AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Britain has a trade deficit which means that it imports more 'widgets' than it exports. If Sterling falls against other currencies it means the price of importing 'widgets' rises making British people poorer overall.

So whats wrong with a trade deficit, from time to time? Part of the ebb and flow of all business.

So their currency drops a bit! Their exports go up, some imported "wigets" get more expensive so Joe Bloggs in the UK buys the domestic produced version.

When we still had our independence we used to devalue our currency on a regular basis. So that people would keep buying our stuff (wigets).

VinLieger · 13-10-2016 07:26AM

323 wrote: »

So whats wrong with a trade deficit, from time to time? Part of the ebb and flow of all business.

So their currency drops a bit! Their exports go up, some imported "wigets" get more expensive so Joe Bloggs in the UK buys the domestic produced version.

When we still had our independence we used to devalue our currency on a regular basis. So that people would keep buying our stuff (wigets).

How many widgets does England export compared to how many it imports?

Peregrinus · 13-10-2016 07:35AM

323 wrote: »

So whats wrong with a trade deficit, from time to time? Part of the ebb and flow of all business.

Nothing's wrong with it.

What would be wrong is denial of the consequence. When a country devalues there are both winners and losers, financially speaking, but in a country with a trade deficit there will be more losses than wins. Britain has a trade deficit; therefore the devaluation of sterling is going to make Britain poorer. And we can go a bit further; Britain has a surplus on trade in services, but a large deficit on trade in goods. So, the winners from devaluation will include those who export services - inward tourism has already been mentioned, but we can add, e.g., bankers, provided the UK can retain its financial services passport. The losers will include those who consume imported goods, and who aren't employed in export-oriented sectors.

The losses of wealth attributable to devaluation isn't something that Brexiters should try to hand-wave away; that only makes them look like fools (they don't understand the consequences of devaluation) or liars (they do understand the consquences, but they deny them). It seems to me that the only respectable position for Brexiters on this is to make, and to be willing to defend, the claim "yes, we will pay a price through devaluation, but it's a price worth paying in order to secure [whatever advantages or benefits are said to flow from Brexit]".

FrancieBrady · 13-10-2016 08:13AM

maryishere wrote: »

But their hotels, tourism businesses, factories etc are booming and having a great boost from the stg devaluation. Its not the first time stg has hit 90 cents, so no big deal. Swings and roundabouts.

A fundamental and whole picture understanding of basic economics is missing as well. Keep waving the flag Mary.

VinLieger · 13-10-2016 08:35AM

maryishere wrote: »

But their hotels, tourism businesses, factories etc are booming and having a great boost from the stg devaluation. Its not the first time stg has hit 90 cents, so no big deal. Swings and roundabouts.

Yeah cus the last time it hit 90 cents was no big deal either. Your giving comical Ali a run for his money with your deflecting

whatstherush · 13-10-2016 09:01AM

the evasion_kid wrote: »

If the eu want to punish the UK and other countries for leaving it just goes to show what the EU has become....it's odd that there is people out there who would champion such a thing

How can the EU "punish" a country for leaving? It's a tacit omission by you that there are advantages to being in the EU. If you leave you leave, there's no "punishment", just forgoing the advantages of being in the EU by their own choice.

It's classic kipper logic, the UK was going to hold the EU over a barrel because of all those BMW's they buy and have their cake and eat it. Now that the cake turns out to be a shít sandwich, it's the big bad EU "punishing" them again. All ways the fúcking victims!

VinLieger · 13-10-2016 09:08AM

Sign of things to come http://www.thejournal.ie/tesco-marmite-row-3024009-Oct2016/

Things are about to get a lot more expensive for all of them, I wonder who they will blame?

steddyeddy · 13-10-2016 09:17AM

VinLieger wrote: »

Sign of things to come http://www.thejournal.ie/tesco-marmite-row-3024009-Oct2016/

Things are about to get a lot more expensive for all of them, I wonder who they will blame?

At this stage a 10% price rise will be the best thing for them TBH. People need to wake up to the mess they made.

UK Votes to leave EU

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