This has been bugging me for a while

54and56 · 12-10-2016 09:14PM

punisher5112 wrote: »

If you have CD on your plate you can do what you want.

Funny you should mention that. Was sitting in traffic the other day and saw a "CD" reg Merc/Audi (a good few years old i.e. 2009 or so) flying down the inside bus lane.

Feckers. If I could have one car accessory it would be "CD" plates or an Adshel van. Drive in bus lanes, park in bus lanes, park on footpaths etc with total impunity.

2RockMountain · 12-10-2016 11:04PM

punisher5112 wrote: »

If you have CD on your plate you can do what you want.

Not true. Car's don't have diplomatic immunity. Some people do - so it depends who is driving the car. Often, the driver is not actually a diplomat, so does not have diplomatic immunity.

borderlinemeath · 13-10-2016 08:48AM

I have never seen a cyclist stop and wait for a bus that has stopped for passengers. They mostly cycle around it into the traffic lane, but on occasion I have seen them mounting the footpath as the safer, but illegal option. There would be no need to mount the footpath to go around the stationary adshel van in the photo.

GM228 · 13-10-2016 10:03AM

2RockMountain wrote: »

punisher5112 wrote: »

If you have CD on your plate you can do what you want.

Not true. Car's don't have diplomatic immunity. Some people do - so it depends who is driving the car. Often, the driver is not actually a diplomat, so does not have diplomatic immunity.

Indeed, most drivers of cars using the "CD" are not those who have the diplomatic immunit, the diplomat is usually the back seat passenger. The immunity is for the diplomat, not their vehicles or property. It's also interesting to note that CD has no legal standing in law, it's simply an international custom.

Diplomatic immunity is afforded by the The Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations of 1961 and the Diplomatic Relations and Immunities Act 1967, however the convention still requires diplomats to respect the laws of the state they are in.

Fred Swanson · 13-10-2016 10:25AM

This post has been deleted.

nuac · 13-10-2016 11:50AM

Mod
I think the CD issues are off thread. Could be we keep om thread topic, pls ?

2RockMountain · 21-10-2016 01:29PM

Irish Guide Dogs have a campaign running to highlight the impacts of pavement parking on people with vision impairments;

http://www.wlrfm.com/news-single.php?cat=1&id=82389

http://www.galwayindependent.com/news/topics/articles/2016/10/19/4128638-call-to-keep-paths-clear/?platform=hootsuite

This really is a big issue. Every Spar or Centra shop has loads of different suppliers delivering goods, and even if each van 'is only there for a few minutes', it all adds up to frequent disruption for pedestrians and often for cyclists.

This should be addressed at planning stage - when getting planning permission for a shop, it should be mandatory to show how deliveries will be managed without creating problems for the rest of the community.

54and56 · 24-10-2016 11:07AM

More illegal parking in a bus lane a few metres from traffic lights and a pedestrian crossing.

It's interesting that a private business seems to incorporate breaking the road traffic rules as it's standard mode of operation in order to speed up the process of swapping advertising posters and can do so with complete immunity.

If (total assumption on my part) Adshel have 10 vans on the road around Dublin making 30 stops a day each (one stop every 15 minutes) and 90% of them involve parking in bus lanes, on cycle lanes and foot paths that's 300 road traffic violations per day or 66,000 per annum assuming a standard 220 working day rota.

I wonder how many tickets they get per annum for such breaches?

WindomEarle · 24-10-2016 11:51AM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

More illegal parking in a bus lane a few metres from traffic lights and a pedestrian crossing.

It's interesting that a private business seems to incorporate breaking the road traffic rules as it's standard mode of operation in order to speed up the process of swapping advertising posters and can do so with complete immunity.

If (total assumption on my part) Adshel have 10 vans on the road around Dublin making 30 stops a day each (one stop every 15 minutes) and 90% of them involve parking in bus lanes, on cycle lanes and foot paths that's 300 road traffic violations per day or 66,000 per annum assuming a standard 220 working day rota.

I wonder how many tickets they get per annum for such breaches?

They were blocking the bus stop outside the Goat when I passed this morning.

54and56 · 24-10-2016 12:11PM

WindomEarle wrote: »

They were blocking the bus stop outside the Goat when I passed this morning.

If I had a dashcam and nothing to do for an hour I'd love to just follow a van around and see how many times in one hour they break the road traffic laws.

WindomEarle · 24-10-2016 12:35PM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

If I had a dashcam and and nothing to do for an hour I'd love to just follow a van around and see how many times in one hour they break the road traffic laws.

Nice idea - just don't park on the pavement or cycle lane while surveilling!

54and56 · 24-10-2016 01:30PM

WindomEarle wrote: »

Nice idea - just don't park on the pavement or cycle lane while surveilling!

Why not? The rules appear to be voluntary

Fred Swanson · 24-10-2016 03:00PM

This post has been deleted.

GM228 · 24-10-2016 03:49PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Have you checked to see if bus shelter maintenance has an exemption from the bye laws that govern bus lanes?

There is Fred, and to answer the OPs assumption that they are involved in illegal parking.

Any vehicle used in connection with the repair, maintenance, alteration, improvement or installation or any other work carried out on any structure on a road is exempt from the provisions of the Traffic and Parking Regulations 1998 irrespective of weather or not it's privately owned or otherwise. This includes any vehicle used in relation to the upkeep of bus shelters, Adshel vans included.

54and56 · 24-10-2016 04:08PM

GM228 wrote: »

Any vehicle used in connection with the repair, maintenance, alteration, improvement or installation or any other work carried out on any structure on a road is exempt from the provisions of the Traffic and Parking Regulations 1998. This includes any vehicle used in relation to the upkeep of bus shelters.

Thanks for that. I looked up the relevant legislation and I think (I'm open to correction) that the following is the relevant section you are referencing:

(3) Save where otherwise expressly provided in these Regulations, a prohibition on the entry of a vehicle to a road or main area or the prohibition on the stopping or parking of a vehicle imposed by these Regulations shall not apply to -
(a) a vehicle being used in connection with the removal of an obstruction to traffic;
(b) a vehicle being used in connection with the carrying out of roadworks;
(c) a vehicle being used by a local authority or its agents in connection with the provision of a traffic sign;
(d) a vehicle being used in connection with the removal of a vehicle pursuant to the provisions of regulations made under section 97 of the Principal Act, as amended by section 3 of the Act of 1968, or regulations made under section 41 of the Act of 1994;
(e) a vehicle being used for the purpose of facilitating the immobilisation of a vehicle or the removal of an immobilisation device from a vehicle pursuant to section 101B of the Principal Act, as inserted by section 9 of the Dublin Transport. Authority (Dissolution) Act, 1987 (No. 34 of 1987);
(f) a vehicle being used by a traffic warden in the performance of the duties of that warden;
(g) a vehicle which has been damaged or has broken down, during the period necessary to effect repairs to the vehicle or remove it from the location.

I don't see any reference to any reference to changing posters on a bus stop which isn't in fact on the road but on the path.

Is your statement taken from actual legislation (if so please quote or link the the relevant provision) or is it a personal interpretation of the legislation?

Little CuChulainn · 24-10-2016 04:13PM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Thanks for that. I looked up the relevant legislation and I think (I'm open to correction) that the following is the relevant section you are referencing:

(3) Save where otherwise expressly provided in these Regulations, a prohibition on the entry of a vehicle to a road or main area or the prohibition on the stopping or parking of a vehicle imposed by these Regulations shall not apply to -
(a) a vehicle being used in connection with the removal of an obstruction to traffic;
(b) a vehicle being used in connection with the carrying out of roadworks;
(c) a vehicle being used by a local authority or its agents in connection with the provision of a traffic sign;
(d) a vehicle being used in connection with the removal of a vehicle pursuant to the provisions of regulations made under section 97 of the Principal Act, as amended by section 3 of the Act of 1968, or regulations made under section 41 of the Act of 1994;
(e) a vehicle being used for the purpose of facilitating the immobilisation of a vehicle or the removal of an immobilisation device from a vehicle pursuant to section 101B of the Principal Act, as inserted by section 9 of the Dublin Transport. Authority (Dissolution) Act, 1987 (No. 34 of 1987);
(f) a vehicle being used by a traffic warden in the performance of the duties of that warden;
(g) a vehicle which has been damaged or has broken down, during the period necessary to effect repairs to the vehicle or remove it from the location.

I don't see any reference to any reference to changing posters on a bus stop which isn't in fact on the road but on the path.

Is your statement taken from actual legislation (if so please quote or link the the relevant provision) or is it a personal interpretation of the legislation?

Subsection c would appear to apply to your bugbear.

GM228 · 24-10-2016 04:15PM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Thanks for that. I looked up the relevant legislation and I think (I'm open to correction) that the following is the relevant section you are referencing:

(3) Save where otherwise expressly provided in these Regulations, a prohibition on the entry of a vehicle to a road or main area or the prohibition on the stopping or parking of a vehicle imposed by these Regulations shall not apply to -
(a) a vehicle being used in connection with the removal of an obstruction to traffic;
(b) a vehicle being used in connection with the carrying out of roadworks;
(c) a vehicle being used by a local authority or its agents in connection with the provision of a traffic sign;
(d) a vehicle being used in connection with the removal of a vehicle pursuant to the provisions of regulations made under section 97 of the Principal Act, as amended by section 3 of the Act of 1968, or regulations made under section 41 of the Act of 1994;
(e) a vehicle being used for the purpose of facilitating the immobilisation of a vehicle or the removal of an immobilisation device from a vehicle pursuant to section 101B of the Principal Act, as inserted by section 9 of the Dublin Transport. Authority (Dissolution) Act, 1987 (No. 34 of 1987);
(f) a vehicle being used by a traffic warden in the performance of the duties of that warden;
(g) a vehicle which has been damaged or has broken down, during the period necessary to effect repairs to the vehicle or remove it from the location.

I don't see any reference to any reference to changing posters on a bus stop which isn't in fact on the road but on the path.

Is your statement taken from actual legislation (if so please quote or link the the relevant provision) or is it a personal interpretation of the legislation?

Your nearly there, yes it's from legislation (my brother who is a Guard steered me in the correct direction).

I'll post a more comprehensive post when I get a chance.

One thing to note is a bus stop is on a "road", a common mistake people make is thinking we have roads and paths when in fact we have roadways and footways which both form part of the road.

ED E · 24-10-2016 04:24PM

Those clauses certainly don't apply to many others though such as all the couriers, private cars, G4S & Brinks, delivery artics and <<mod deletion>> Frylite.

Mod

Your description of Frylite staff deleted. Offensive. Pls keep it civil here.

Second part of your post deleted. You cannot get legal advice on this forum

Little CuChulainn · 24-10-2016 04:26PM

ED E wrote: »

Those clauses certainly don't apply to many others though such as all the couriers, private cars, G4S & Brinks, delivery artics <<mod deletion>>and Frylite.

<<Mod deletion - legal advice against forum rules>>

realdanbreen · 24-10-2016 04:36PM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Thanks for that. I looked up the relevant legislation and I think (I'm open to correction) that the following is the relevant section you are referencing:

(3) Save where otherwise expressly provided in these Regulations, a prohibition on the entry of a vehicle to a road or main area or the prohibition on the stopping or parking of a vehicle imposed by these Regulations shall not apply to -
(a) a vehicle being used in connection with the removal of an obstruction to traffic;
(b) a vehicle being used in connection with the carrying out of roadworks;
(c) a vehicle being used by a local authority or its agents in connection with the provision of a traffic sign;
(d) a vehicle being used in connection with the removal of a vehicle pursuant to the provisions of regulations made under section 97 of the Principal Act, as amended by section 3 of the Act of 1968, or regulations made under section 41 of the Act of 1994;
(e) a vehicle being used for the purpose of facilitating the immobilisation of a vehicle or the removal of an immobilisation device from a vehicle pursuant to section 101B of the Principal Act, as inserted by section 9 of the Dublin Transport. Authority (Dissolution) Act, 1987 (No. 34 of 1987);
(f) a vehicle being used by a traffic warden in the performance of the duties of that warden;
(g) a vehicle which has been damaged or has broken down, during the period necessary to effect repairs to the vehicle or remove it from the location.

I don't see any reference to any reference to changing posters on a bus stop which isn't in fact on the road but on the path.

Is your statement taken from actual legislation (if so please quote or link the the relevant provision) or is it a personal interpretation of the legislation?

Why would you go to the bother of looking up the legislation on this?
It's not as if you can do anything about it.

Mod
This a legal discussion forum. Je suis and other posters are entitled to discuss the legislation

54and56 · 24-10-2016 06:05PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Subsection c would appear to apply to your bugbear.

Don't know what way you're interpreting swapping posters in an advertising panel to equate to "in connection with the provision of a traffic sign". Is an advert for Tayto the provision of a traffic sign?

54and56 · 24-10-2016 06:06PM

GM228 wrote: »

One thing to note is a bus stop is on a "road", a common mistake people make is thinking we have roads and paths when in fact we have roadways and footways which both form part of the road.

Forgot that, you're dead right.

54and56 · 24-10-2016 06:20PM

realdanbreen wrote: »

Why would you go to the bother of looking up the legislation on this?
It's not as if you can do anything about it.

Well if I had your defeatist attitude I guess I wouldn't but actually there are a number of things I can do about it as follows:-

1. Discuss it on here to get the thoughts of others and to see if I'm missing the fact these private companies are somehow exempt under legislation or have a special permit to park in bus lanes, cycle paths, foot paths etc whenever and where ever they want.

2. Write to Dublin City Council and/or my local councillors to get the official DCC position on this practice, assuming they have an overt position and aren't just turning a blind eye.

3. Do the same to the Guards to get their position.

4. Write to my local TD (who happens to be the Minister for Transport) to get his response to the same questions.

5. Generally keep shining a light on the practice until there is clarity on whether they have in fact got legislative exemption from having to obey the rules of the road or not and if not find out a) what the authorities actually do to stop turning a blind eye to it and b) what the companies themselves (AdShel are just one example, Brinks, G4S, Frylite etc all mentioned above) do to alter their operating procedures which at the moment appear to involve pervasive and systematic breaking of the road traffic rules, in many cases reducing the safety of other road users e.g. this morning when the van blocked oncoming traffics view of the pedestrian crossing outside St Raphaella's school) without penalty.

Does that answer your question?

WindomEarle · 24-10-2016 07:24PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Subsection c would appear to apply to your bugbear.

No where near it. Local authorities don't contract to Adshel, and a bus shelter advert is not a traffic sign.

WindomEarle · 24-10-2016 07:26PM

ED E wrote: »

<<Mod deletion - legal advice against forum rules>>

I've had FCPNs issued based on video evidence, though not on parking issues.

realdanbreen wrote: »

Why would you go to the bother of looking up the legislation on this?
It's not as if you can do anything about it.

Slightly defeatist attitude - but why would you want to put someone down for investigating something like this?

54and56 · 06-11-2016 04:04PM

Good to see the road traffic laws are broken on a 7 day a week basis with total impunity unless of course replacing the advert on billboards is also considered to be maintaining traffic signage???

<Mod snip.>

brian_t · 06-11-2016 07:17PM

Mr <Mod snip.> should be banned from boards for advertising his company.

GM228 · 06-11-2016 08:16PM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Good to see the road traffic laws are broken on a 7 day a week basis with total impunity unless of course replacing the advert on billboards is also considered to be maintaining traffic signage???

Billboards are not traffic signs, they are simply a structure.

Any vehicle used in connection with any work carried out on any structure forming part of the road is exempt, billboards just like the bus stops are structures which form part of the road.

54and56 · 06-11-2016 09:53PM

GM228 wrote: »

Billboards are not traffic signs, they are simply a structure.

Any vehicle used in connection with any work carried out on any structure forming part of the road is exempt, billboards just like the bus stops are structures which form part of the road.

You sure that billboards on the hoarding of a building site located on the inside of a footpath are considered part of "the road". Can you link to where such are defined in the legislation?

Is there a published list of structures which form part of "the road"? If the billboards located on a wall/hoarding on the inside of a footpath are considered to be "the road" and to therefore grant carte blanche parking rights to anyone working on same does that mean someone cleaning the windows of a shop or painting the wall of a shop which faces onto a path the same way a billboard faces onto a road can park on the path or in the cycle/bus lane as it forms part of "the road"?

Is there any time limit to how long working on a structure which forms part of the road grants you permission to park on the path/cycle lane/bus lane? If you are going to be doing some intricate decoration of a wall/billboard structure forming part of "the road" which will take all day can you park in the footpath/cycle lane/bus lane all day with impunity? If not where does the legislation say you can't?

GM228 · 07-11-2016 09:28AM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

You sure that billboards on the hoarding of a building site located on the inside of a footpath are considered part of "the road". Can you link to where such are defined in the legislation?

I would say it comes under the "any other structure" for the "convenience" of road users.

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Is there a published list of structures which form part of "the road"? If the billboards located on a wall/hoarding on the inside of a footpath are considered to be "the road" and to therefore grant carte blanche parking rights to anyone working on same does that mean someone cleaning the windows of a shop or painting the wall of a shop which faces onto a path the same way a billboard faces onto a road can park on the path or in the cycle/bus lane as it forms part of "the road"?

No there is no published list but the necessary for safety, convenience or amenity of road users would narrow it down, a shop window could possibly also fall into the "convenience" category, but not the shop walls, although a shop in itself could be considered an amenity.

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Is there any time limit to how long working on a structure which forms part of the road grants you permission to park on the path/cycle lane/bus lane? If you are going to be doing some intricate decoration of a wall/billboard structure forming part of "the road" which will take all day can you park in the footpath/cycle lane/bus lane all day with impunity? If not where does the legislation say you can't?

No there are no time limits, it's the same legislation which simply says the regulations don't apply, there is no subject to time limits etc.

This has been bugging me for a while

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