Second Captains

jaykay74 · 05-10-2016 08:21AM

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

Best Fair View yet. Poor auld Pudser

It was great, a return to form. I thought after the second one that maybe it was only going to be a once off success and fade away but a good tale

Cartman78 · 05-10-2016 09:26AM

"He wouldn’t give the fluff off his bum for a man that would miss on the near side"

:D:D

Between Murph's story of the Mayo family in the pub and the absolutely heartbreaking commentary from MWR, I was an emotional wreck after the first few minutes of the podcast, but Ken's tale of Pudser O'Toole, Eddie the Dandy O'Dywer & co. put a smile on my face

yosser hughes · 05-10-2016 09:48AM

quad_red wrote: »

Love Richie Sadlier. His hints about clubs having a member of staff who has to be paid off for transfers to go through is intriguing.

Would love to hear a no holds barred take on it.

I don't like Ritchie Sadlier at all. I thought he was very condescending about LOI clubs and what he says went on in meetings. It's hearsay and I'm not saying it isn't true but I think he's kicking people who don't deserve it.
The LOI of suffers from mis-management of course but undeniably it suffers from blanket coverage of English football by our media.
Private media companies can do what they want but RTE as the national, tax funded broadcaster are a disgrace in this matter.
Ultimately Ritchie, Ken and company make their living from the English football gravy train. It has less to do with football and more to do with selling a product. That's fine but don't pretend you care about football and the structure of it, or wonder why the international team doesn't perform.

Ritchie relies on anecdotes that are impossible to prove and I also find his tone to be kind of whingy.

corwill · 05-10-2016 10:12AM

yosser hughes wrote: »

I don'y like Ritchie Sadlier at all. I thought he was very condescending about LOI clubs and what he says went on in meetings. It's hearsay and I'm not saying it isn't true but I think he's kicking people who don't deserve it.
The LOI of suffers from mis-management of course but undeniably it suffers from blanket coverage of English football by our media.
Private media companies can do what they want but RTE as the national, tax funded broadcaster are a disgrace in this matter.
Ultimately Ritchie, Ken and company make their living from the English football gravy train. It has less to do with football and more to do with selling a product. That's fine but don't pretend you care about football and the structure of it, or wonder why the international team doesn't perform.

Ritchie relies on anecdotes that are impossible to prove and I also find his tone to be kind of whingy.

Ritchie is sharing his own actual experiences. He actually rolled up his sleeves, got stuck in and tried to make a difference for a while at a LoI club.

Reading between the lines, I'd say he just got sick of the chronic ineptitude, inculcated dysfunction and small time thinking that are a blight on Irish soccer at all levels. Couldn't blame him in the slightest for giving up on it.

But sure blame de meedjah, that'll make it all better...

yosser hughes · 05-10-2016 10:25AM

corwill wrote: »

Ritchie is sharing his own actual experiences. He actually rolled up his sleeves, got stuck in and tried to make a difference for a while at a LoI club.

Reading between the lines, I'd say he just got sick of the chronic ineptitude, inculcated dysfunction and small time thinking that are a blight on Irish soccer at all levels. Couldn't blame him in the slightest for giving up on it.

But sure blame de meedjah, that'll make it all better...

I know Ritchie was involved with St.Pats. I used to go to Richmond Park at the time. I'm not denying he has first hand knowledge. I'd rather though, have someone else involved give a right of reply to some of his assertions. That's all.
You don't know what exactly led to Ritchie's departure from Pats, you are taking Ritchie's words at face value.
With regard to the media, of course it's not all their fault, I did acknowledge that, but RTE do very little to help the LOI.
They are more interested in promoting a league from a different country; which does not fit with their public service remit. A commercial media organisation can do what they like. It's all about advertising to them and the English league is a product.

corwill · 05-10-2016 10:36AM

I have no good reason to doubt Ritchie at all on this. To be honest, it doesn't look like you do either, other than simply not liking what you're hearing. Baseless allegations of bad faith, bias, and commercial self interest notwithstanding.

dulpit · 05-10-2016 01:30PM

yosser hughes wrote: »

I don'y like Ritchie Sadlier at all. I thought he was very condescending about LOI clubs and what he says went on in meetings. It's hearsay and I'm not saying it isn't true but I think he's kicking people who don't deserve it.
The LOI of suffers from mis-management of course but undeniably it suffers from blanket coverage of English football by our media.
Private media companies can do what they want but RTE as the national, tax funded broadcaster are a disgrace in this matter.
Ultimately Ritchie, Ken and company make their living from the English football gravy train. It has less to do with football and more to do with selling a product. That's fine but don't pretend you care about football and the structure of it, or wonder why the international team doesn't perform.

Ritchie relies on anecdotes that are impossible to prove and I also find his tone to be kind of whingy.

What's funny is that this quote exemplifies what Richie was saying. It's always something else that is the fault, it's never the LOI. It's like if you try and complain about it or suggest changes you're against "real football". :rolleyes:

yosser hughes · 05-10-2016 02:41PM

dulpit wrote: »

What's funny is that this quote exemplifies what Richie was saying. It's always something else that is the fault, it's never the LOI. It's like if you try and complain about it or suggest changes you're against "real football". :rolleyes:

Okay. So you didn't actually read what I wrote either.
Never mind.

lawred2 · 05-10-2016 02:58PM

yosser hughes wrote: »

I don'y like Ritchie Sadlier at all. I thought he was very condescending about LOI clubs and what he says went on in meetings. It's hearsay and I'm not saying it isn't true but I think he's kicking people who don't deserve it.
The LOI of suffers from mis-management of course but undeniably it suffers from blanket coverage of English football by our media.
Private media companies can do what they want but RTE as the national, tax funded broadcaster are a disgrace in this matter.
Ultimately Ritchie, Ken and company make their living from the English football gravy train. It has less to do with football and more to do with selling a product. That's fine but don't pretend you care about football and the structure of it, or wonder why the international team doesn't perform.

Ritchie relies on anecdotes that are impossible to prove and I also find his tone to be kind of whingy.

I just listened to this podcast...

You seem to think that the product and the underlying structures are mutually exclusive..

They are not.

Without the right structures you are never going to have anything remotely resembling a product. So someone who seriously wanted to sell a 'product' would have to have a very strong vested interest in the structures of the game.

As such this comment is bit wrong headed

It has less to do with football and more to do with selling a product. That's fine but don't pretend you care about football and the structure of it

The GAA is obsessed about structures and makes a damn sight more selling its product than the LOI does. If you're not obsessed about selling your product then professional sport isn't for you.

Arghus · 05-10-2016 03:01PM

I thought the same thing as Yosser while listening to Ritchie. I've no doubt that some of what he had to say was the complete truth but, I would have loved to get another view on it from someone involved in domestic football. Not necessarily to shoot him down, but to see if there was some objectivity to what he had to say, it did feel like he was ranting a bit at times.

I don't dislike him as a contributor, but I also find his tone a bit whingy. He's hard to take on television, for me.

Perhaps, I'm wrong but I think Ken is living in cloud cuckoo land if he doesn't think that the money that Dundalk have earned so far isn't going to have a huge effect on the league . It isn't Abromavich money, of course - at least not in absolute terms. But in relative terms it's a windfall like no-one else has come into in the history of the league and if they utilise right they could dominate for the foreseeable future.

corwill · 05-10-2016 03:19PM

Arghus wrote: »

... and if they utilise right ...

This may be the bit they were tip-toeing around. Which might be unfair on Dundalk, who seem fairly well run.

Dots1982 · 05-10-2016 05:32PM

Arghus wrote: »

Perhaps, I'm wrong but I think Ken is living in cloud cuckoo land if he doesn't think that the money that Dundalk have earned so far isn't going to have a huge effect on the league . It isn't Abromavich money, of course - at least not in absolute terms. But in relative terms it's a windfall like no-one else has come into in the history of the league and if they utilise right they could dominate for the foreseeable future.

Thank you. Ken is living in complete cloud cuckoo land. He seems to think that because Dundalk won't be able to attract "Luka Modric" that it won't have a big effect. What I would say it will do, is that any player Dundalk want within the league they will never fail to be able to afford.

I don't get why Ken's appreciation of the difference the money will make was so bad.

Arghus · 05-10-2016 06:36PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Thank you. Ken is living in complete cloud cuckoo land. He seems to think that because Dundalk won't be able to attract "Luka Modric" that it won't have a big effect. What I would say it will do, is that any player Dundalk want within the league they will never fail to be able to afford.

I don't get why Ken's appreciation of the difference the money will make was so bad.

Yes, exactly. Within the sphere of The League of Ireland that amount of money is absolutely a game changer. It puts Dundalk's financial power many, many magnitudes ahead of everyone else. 90% of the time Ken is great, but 10% of the time you can tell that the words are by-passing his brain entirely on the way to his mouth.

Ol' Donie · 05-10-2016 06:39PM

Arghus wrote: »

90% of the time Ken is great, but 10% of the time you can tell that the words are by-passing his brain entirely on the way to deliberately winding somebody up.

Fixed that there.

Arghus · 05-10-2016 06:49PM

Ol' Donie wrote: »

Fixed that there.

Ah yeah, there's always that. But I think he has his fair share of genuinely held half-baked opinions, just like anyone else.

Ol' Donie · 05-10-2016 06:51PM

Arghus wrote: »

Ah yeah, there's always that. But I think he has his fair share of genuinely held half-baked opinions, just like anyone else.

Ah, he totally does. Not afraid to argue both sides of the point, our Ken.

Over time, and after forgetting he'd gone the other way a while back.

Beersmith · 05-10-2016 07:04PM

When Richie talking about these meetings as a player or as someone higher up?

foxtrot101 · 05-10-2016 08:00PM

Beersmith wrote: »

When Richie talking about these meetings as a player or as someone higher up?

He was on St Pat's board for a couple of years.

Brock Turnpike · 06-10-2016 09:32AM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Thank you. Ken is living in complete cloud cuckoo land. He seems to think that because Dundalk won't be able to attract "Luka Modric" that it won't have a big effect. What I would say it will do, is that any player Dundalk want within the league they will never fail to be able to afford.

I don't get why Ken's appreciation of the difference the money will make was so bad.

And herein lies the problem. Every other team that has had a European windfall done exactly that - bought the best players in the league. How did that work out for them? Exactly! It's not sustainable.

The best thing Dundalk could do with the money is invest it in sorting out the pitch/stadium and putting together a proper youth academy structure. They are the kind of things that will help make them a self sustainable club.

Brock Turnpike · 06-10-2016 09:33AM

This 'yosser' fella is on the wind up, right?

Brock Turnpike · 06-10-2016 07:45PM

Brendan Filone wrote: »

Hilarious review of one of the Steve Bruce books they were discussing today here:

https://www.balls.ie/football/steve-bruce-novel/293169

Not reading an article from a click bait website. But there's no way it'll be as funny as the discussion the lads had today.

threein99 · 06-10-2016 09:11PM

https://soundcloud.com/secondcaptains-it-com/mayo-say-no-mas-rating-dubs-all-time-embracing-us-golf-fans-final-fair-view#t=9:58

This weeks Fairview was the best yet

Dots1982 · 06-10-2016 11:11PM

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

Dots1982 wrote: »

Thank you. Ken is living in complete cloud cuckoo land. He seems to think that because Dundalk won't be able to attract "Luka Modric" that it won't have a big effect. What I would say it will do, is that any player Dundalk want within the league they will never fail to be able to afford.

I don't get why Ken's appreciation of the difference the money will make was so bad.

And herein lies the problem. Every other team that has had a European windfall done exactly that - bought the best players in the league. How did that work out for them? Exactly! It's not sustainable.

The best thing Dundalk could do with the money is invest it in sorting out the pitch/stadium and putting together a proper youth academy structure. They are the kind of things that will help make them a self sustainable club.

Seems to work for juventus, Bayern. I don't see why buying the best players off your rivals is not sustainable. You strengthen while weakening your rivals. It's win-win.

Say Your Number · 06-10-2016 11:26PM

Loved hearing Ken talk to Haddaway at Euro 2008 again.

Another old clip I'd love to hear is Ken talking about Rafa Benitez's adrenal glands and rats, yeah it's as surreal as it sounds, or Ken describing playing Gaelic Football aged 5 and kicking the ball into his own goal and everyone berating him and him having a negative association with the sport since

K-9 · 06-10-2016 11:34PM

corwill wrote: »

This may be the bit they were tip-toeing around. Which might be unfair on Dundalk, who seem fairly well run.

Even Kenny was giving out about the ground so there'll be plenty of places for the money to go.

We'd the same talk when Rovers got into the group stage and they'd a new stadium and everything.

styron · 07-10-2016 01:23AM

Say Your Number wrote: »

Loved hearing Ken talk to Haddaway at Euro 2008 again.

Another old clip I'd love to hear is Ken talking about Rafa Benitez's adrenal glands and rats, yeah it's as surreal as it sounds ...

Could swear it was actually a (Mexican ??) hamster ... its defence mechanism involved somewhere. Surreality did nothing to anchor the memory for sure ... as Ken never drew the parallel again, often think I've hallucinated it all :pac:

Arghus · 07-10-2016 05:21AM

Not the first time they've talked about the Steve Bruce books. Ken talked about them many a time back in the newstalk days, read out excerpts an' all. Ludicrous stuff, but I'd probably read them.

I thought the guy they had to talk about them seemed very pleased with himself.

dulpit · 07-10-2016 07:48AM

Was catching up on Monday's shows yesterday. Firstly, they need to use Mark more on mic, he's great. Not sure why he only stands in for Eoin on the non-football show. Also - is this the first time he explicitly mentioned that Shane Horgan is his brother? I know it's pretty much common knowledge, but it always struck me as something they were not mentioning for some reason...

GopErthike · 07-10-2016 09:43AM

Anyone else feel that Mattie Williams was being a bit disingenuous regarding concussion and rugby injuries? His greatest fear when he comes to Ireland is seeing kids going around on pushbikes without helmets. (Don't shoot, they should have helmets on)
Yet two players driving their heads in to each other isn't as worrying?

I felt Eoin didn't push him on this enough.

Meh.

bren2001 · 07-10-2016 09:54AM

GopErthike wrote: »

Anyone else feel that Mattie Williams was being a bit disingenuous regarding concussion and rugby injuries? His greatest fear when he comes to Ireland is seeing kids going around on pushbikes without helmets. (Don't shoot, they should have helmets on)
Yet two players driving their heads in to each other isn't as worrying?

I felt Eoin didn't push him on this enough.

Meh.

Yeah, I thought it was a bit strange his comment that 70-80 Australian kids were sidelined every week with head injuries when the many of them shouldn't. He seemed to completely skip over the point that this attitude creates the mentality from a young age that taking precautions with head injuries is a must.

I also disagreed with his point that older rugby players have not shown an increased rate in deaths, dimentia etc. Its different times where players are much bigger, stronger and faster. The speeds at which they collide are much higher which leads to much more traumatic injuries.

I though Eoin could have challenged him a lot more.

Second Captains

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