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Anniversary Mass

  • 27-09-2016 10:36AM
    #1
    TPF2012
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 376 ✭✭


    Hi people. There probably has been threads on this before but I'll ask anyway. I'm from and live in rural Ireland and have a friend's first anniversary mass coming up soon. Now my family and wife are saying that I have to go but I don't feel the same way. I don't believe in God or any of the religious stuff anymore but living in my community you are inevitably in contact with it very regularly. I think about my friend a lot and feel I don't need a mass to remember him. Anyway I know 90% that will attend these masses are just there to be seen. Maybe I'll just go and avoid giving the impression I don't give a **** by not attending.


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Comments

  • #2
    OverRide
    Closed Accounts Posts: 665 ✭✭✭OverRide


    If your friends were clowns and decided to hold an anniversary circus in a big top for your dead friend,would you go?

    The mass should be no different,you're there for them,the same as at a wedding
    Their practices and beliefs are or should be irrelevant to you


  • #3
    5rtytry56
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,828 ✭✭✭5rtytry56


    Go OP.


    If you cared ANYWAY more than two sh!ts of a fu¢k about your friend's acquaintance with you.


  • #4
    FA Hayek
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭FA Hayek


    Putting the cart before the horse here my friend. I know you want to be cool and different and to be honest I doubt most of your friends are die hard catholics. Most people don't really care for dogma anymore. People do not give a ****e anymore.

    They do however care enough for your friend to organise an event so that his family and friends can gather and remember him/her. There will definitely be some sort of tea and sandwiches, maybe even a few pints shared while they share a few stories about your friend.

    So, you can chose to mop about on the net or whatever you do in your spare time. Or, pull your head out and go and remember your friend as part of the community.


  • #5
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Mod:
    FA Hayek wrote: »
    I know you want to be cool and different [...] pull your head out [...]
    In the context of the death of a friend and genuine concerns which the poster has about how one can reconcile personal beliefs with social obligations, your comment is completely disrespectful towards the poster and the situation they're in, as well as unworthy of this forum.

    Please feel free to post here in A+A again when your ban expires and when you've taken the time to read the forum charter.


  • #6
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,246 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    Just go, for your friend. Don't do communion or the whole standy upy, kneely downy rigmarole if you don't want. You could probably just stand down the back maybe. But show your face for your friend.

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



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  • #7
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Serious but hypothetical question OP. If your wife were to die, would you have such a dilema about attending a mass?


  • #8
    TPF2012
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 376 ✭✭TPF2012


    Yes I would have the same dilemma but peer pressure and social obligations dictated by the Church are what I don't understand in this day and age. Why should we continue to run to the Catholic church for these sort of things. I believe when my parents generation is gone, 30 years from now, these things will be rare events. If I don't go to this mass I will still meet our friends that evening, remembering him more appropriately in the local pub than a church the rarely went to anyway.


  • #9
    Speedwell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    My husband doesn't darken the door of a church, ever, not even for family weddings and christenings (he does absolutely go to receptions and christening parties away from a church building). He has bad memories. I choose to shoulder the burden of showing up at the actual church if need be because I am not so triggered by being in one. Of course, I'm just not really bothered by it any more than a Harvard anthropologist would feel obliged to participate in South American tribal head shrinking rituals along with the local witch doctor. I might even sing a solo with the choir if they appealed to my vanity in exactly the right way. :)


  • #10
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,834 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    Was your friend religious?
    If s/he was, then going to the mass (even just to sit at the back and not participate) would be a way to respect and remember him/her.
    If not, then you can do something else, something that represents what your friend liked about life (if they had a favourite local pub they attended, you could go there and talk about them to the others, or if they had a local team they supported you could attend with a jersey with his/her name on it). Of course, you may already do these things yourself, hence you think and remember your friend a lot anyway.

    You could also always just go to their grave at the time of the mass and leave some flowers or say some words or whatever you feel your friend would appreciate. If anyone mentions you absence at the mass, then mentions their absence at the grave.


  • #11
    witchgirl26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭witchgirl26


    I think for something like this, your own personal beliefs don't really have to come into it. Look on it less like a mass and more like an opportunity to sit and think of your friend for a while without normal life getting in the way. If you don't believe in it, then don't take communion or say the creed. It's a good chance to be there for your mutual friends and your friend's family.


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  • #12
    OverRide
    Closed Accounts Posts: 665 ✭✭✭OverRide


    TPF2012 wrote: »
    Yes I would have the same dilemma but peer pressure and social obligations dictated by the Church are what I don't understand in this day and age. Why should we continue to run to the Catholic church for these sort of things. I believe when my parents generation is gone, 30 years from now, these things will be rare events. If I don't go to this mass I will still meet our friends that evening, remembering him more appropriately in the local pub than a church the rarely went to anyway.

    Well if you feel that strongly about it,these masses are usually done at scheduled masses these days anyway ,usually on a Saturday evening or a Sunday,so you can arrive 30 minutes after the mass is scheduled to start and hang around outside until the others come out
    No one will know any different
    It's not the time to be making the event about your conscientious objections ,it's about the person that's dead and their close ones I think


  • #13
    Danjamin1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 919 ✭✭✭Danjamin1


    This is entirely your own choice OP, don't let others opinions impact on your decision.

    Both my folks passed away about 10 years ago & I did the whole anniversary mass thing for a while for the sake of my family but it just felt so disingenuous. I stopped after a couple of years & told my aunts & uncles that if any of them wanted to arrange their own anniversary masses they were more than welcome but I wouldn't be doing it anymore. There was no animosity, we simply went on with that arrangement: some of my aunts & uncles arrange masses, some don't. I don't attend any of them. Instead I go to their grave on their anniversaries & remember them. And it feels much more personal to me.


  • #14
    Walter H Price
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭Walter H Price


    OP, I totally get how annoying it is that so much of this kinda stuff funerals , anniversary etc... still center around the church , particularly if you know the person never gave two short ones about Jebus or mass or any of that craic.

    But out of respect for your mates family you should just suck it up go along sit out the silly Simon says stuff and the pass on the cracker but just go to show your support to the family and that.


  • #15
    TPF2012
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 376 ✭✭TPF2012


    Mark Hamill wrote:
    Was your friend religious? If s/he was, then going to the mass (even just to sit at the back and not participate) would be a way to respect and remember him/her. If not, then you can do something else, something that represents what your friend liked about life (if they had a favourite local pub they attended, you could go there and talk about them to the others, or if they had a local team they supported you could attend with a jersey with his/her name on it). Of course, you may already do these things yourself, hence you think and remember your friend a lot anyway.

    OverRide wrote:
    Well if you feel that strongly about it,these masses are usually done at scheduled masses these days anyway ,usually on a Saturday evening or a Sunday,so you can arrive 30 minutes after the mass is scheduled to start and hang around outside until the others come out No one will know any different It's not the time to be making the event about your conscientious objections ,it's about the person that's dead and their close ones I think


    It is just something I have been thinking about for a long time not just this particular time. I would not be making my objections public and this isn't meant to be a slight against my friend family having an anniversary mass. It is just a reaction to the social pressures that the Catholic church still has on Irish life. I had my first born baptised earlier this year, wife pushed it and I went along with it to avoid a row and to make my life easier for my son in the future which should not be the case also.


  • #16
    Pawwed Rig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,451 ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    To be fair to the church especially as regards funerals they provide structure on a day when you need it and give you less to organise as a place is provided for people to gather, a format is in place to talk about your loss, there is a start middle and end to the whole process. WRT the anniversary mass I wouldn't be arsed going to one for anybody. Then again there is no social pressure on me to do so.


  • #17
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    There will definitely be some sort of tea and sandwiches, maybe even a few pints shared while they share a few stories about your friend.
    I doubt these pints will be served in the church.
    So it would seem the solution is to skip the church bit and go straight to the afters. I don't see how that would be a problem, assuming the primary purpose of the event is to remember the deceased as opposed to getting people who don't normally attend mass into a church.

    In practical terms, the best plan is probably to arrive at the church just as its ending, and then hang around outside for the meet and greet.


  • #18
    Mr_A
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 515 ✭✭✭Mr_A


    Unless they are different to those I have been at these anniversary masses are generally just the regular weekday mass but with a certain person or persons getting the briefest of mentions. On the bright side they're generally pretty quick and you can lurk near the back and not have to get too involved.


  • #19
    Jacxel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18 ✭Jacxel


    Would your friend have wanted you to go? That would be my biggest consideration.


  • #20
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,574 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    witchgirl26 wrote: »
    I think for something like this, your own personal beliefs don't really have to come into it. Look on it less like a mass and more like an opportunity to sit and think of your friend for a while without normal life getting in the way. .

    To be fair alot of people don't find mass's and church's as places that have any connection to their loved one's,

    If I went to a church to try and think about a friend or family member it wouldn't be far off me going to a shopping centre, in that it would have zero meaning to me.

    I'd personally much rather go up a mountain or walk in a wood while I remember a person, connecting with nature rather then being surrounded by man made religious relics for a faith I don't believe in.


  • #21
    witchgirl26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭witchgirl26


    Cabaal wrote: »
    To be fair alot of people don't find mass's and church's as places that have any connection to their loved one's,

    If I went to a church to try and think about a friend or family member it wouldn't be far off me going to a shopping centre, in that it would have zero meaning to me.

    I'd personally much rather go up a mountain or walk in a wood while I remember a person, connecting with nature rather then being surrounded by man made religious relics for a faith I don't believe in.

    Oh I completely get that. I'm not saying you should organise a mass or anything, just in the context of one already being organised and the OP debating whether to go or not he could take it as that opportunity. I don't for one minute think that the mass itself or the church will have an impact on the OP but it was just an idea.


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  • #22
    Devia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 712 ✭✭✭Devia


    I will attend a mass (anniversaries, funerals, weddings) only as a mark of respect. I find that even a lot of non-religious or people disconnected from their birth religion still feel compelled to do the "done thing" or follow the norm when it comes to weddings, funerals etc. so I feel it's unavoidable really. It's like going to the pub and not drinking.


  • #23
    sillysmiles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭sillysmiles


    TBH, this is the same as funerals for me. You don't go to funerals for the dead person really - they are dead and aren't going to notice. You go for the living, for the family and friends, who take support in the fact that the person they loved was important to others too and that the deceased mattered enough to you to turn up.


  • #24
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    I totally understand where you're coming from OP. Having moved from Dublin to a rural community in the last year I can not believe the amount of people who turn up to funerals of people they have never even met, it's totally about being seen rather than paying respects to anyone. It's not so much like that in Dublin, people who are religious may observe it, others don't and it's not frowned upon either way.

    I would follow your heart and go to the gathering afterwards and just say that you're not religious so feel hypocritical going to the church.


  • #25
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    sillysmiles wrote: »
    TBH, this is the same as funerals for me. You don't go to funerals for the dead person really - they are dead and aren't going to notice. You go for the living, for the family and friends, who take support in the fact that the person they loved was important to others too and that the deceased mattered enough to you to turn up.

    This. As crazy as it sounds friends and family often draw comfort from seeing how many people turned out. If you go just for drinks it could be perceived as someone who didn't bother with remembering their friend but was up for drinking session. In that case I think you are better of not showing up at all. You can blame it on mixing up the dates or something similar.


  • #26
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Jacxel wrote: »
    Would your friend have wanted you to go? That would be my biggest consideration.

    Would his friend have wanted him to be guilt-tripped and pressured into going?


  • #27
    Walter H Price
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭Walter H Price


    I was chatting with a mate last night and wierdly this thread came up , He's on boards a good bit and would be a bit of a hard line athiest like he will be one of my grooms men now but before we changed our mind and decided to have a cilil ceremony he had told me he wouldn't be attending the wedding as it was in the church.

    He was aguing that no way the OP should go if he dosn't believe etc... and should just remember his mate in his own way and send the family a text or something to let know he was thinking of them.

    This perticular guys dad passd away about 2 and a half years ago , and his was the first non religious funeral i was ever at ( and it was a lovely personal event) , i don't ever remember them doing a months mind or any of that but the did do a thing to mark the anniversery which was in his dads favourite pub. I don't drink , i stopped 5 years ago for health reasons ... I put it to him that i dont like pubs , pub culture , drinkng or being around people who a drunk and asked how he would have felt if i had decided that because i didn't want anything to do with the whole pub thing anymore i wasn't going to go to the thing for his dad and just sent him a text instead.

    he argued the toss for a few minutes but ultimately had to conceed that out of respect to the family of the deceased you should show your support and be there regardless of the venue and actually said he felt like a bit of a dick now for skipping out on another mate of ours Grandads funeral last year. we all have our principles on this stuff , reasons for not believing or being openly anti church but at the end of the day when it comes down to it sometimes principles have to be put aside because somethings are more important.


  • #28
    Michael Nugent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭Michael Nugent


    The practice of religion is a matter of freedom of conscience. If you don't believe in Mass, then you should not be pressurised into attending Mass, particularly not by posters on an atheist discussion forum.

    I would not have even dreamt of organising an explicitly atheist event to mark the anniversary of my wife's death, but if I had I certainly would not have expected religious people to attend it.

    If religious people want to mark an anniversary with a Mass, then they are perfectly entitled to do so, but they should not expect people who do not share those beliefs to automatically participate.


  • #29
    Qs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 579 ✭✭✭Qs


    Anniversary masses are a big deal to some people, they really help them remember and honour their loved ones but I don't see why anyone should be obliged to attend if they are non religious. Don't listen to anyone who says not attending is making it about you, its entirely the other way around. If people get annoyed at you not going they are making it about themselves and how they think you should act. Its their issue not yours.


  • #30
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,574 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    For those arguing that he should certainly go, I'm guessing in a real world situation if they were asked to attend a Muslim funeral with prayers etc if they would actually go.

    Remember, the standing and kneeling part of a Catholic mass is very religious imho, I personally don't do any of it. But for that I've gotten grief for it even though people know my views on religion.


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  • #31
    Walter H Price
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭Walter H Price


    Cabaal wrote: »
    For those arguing that he should certainly go, I'm guessing in a real world situation if they were asked to attend a Muslim funeral with prayers etc if they would actually go.

    Remember, the standing and kneeling part of a Catholic mass is very religious imho, I personally don't do any of it. But for that I've gotten grief for it even though people know my views on religion.

    Like i said go for the family not the simon says or the cracker , ive gone to allot of freinds weddings , parents and grandparets funerals and my own family church events too ... i just go sit out the simon says stuff , pass on the cracker (hate the taste anyway) most people wouldn't really say anything i've one aunt that would but shes a bit of a zelot with the whole thing , then again at family stuff my mum and dad would be sitting it out too.

    It is a pain in the arse that so much stuff still involves the church here but i do think you should go for the person or to support their family and just ignore the God speak

    Not sure you would get away with sitting it out in a Mosque they take it all allot more seriously


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