Madman's Road.

slowburner · 12-09-2016 10:17AM #1

The 'Madman's road' - or what remains of it - runs around the southern flanks of Brockagh and Tonelagee mountains. It more or less follows the 420m contour through Glendasan, and more or less aims for the Wicklow gap. Where it begins is unclear, though it may originate close to Laragh.
I would be very grateful for any information, lore etc. about this routeway,
which can be seen here.

12-09-2016 12:39PM

I can't give you any direct help but I would recommend looking in the Liam Price Notebooks, if there is to be any information found on the road I imagine it would be in there.

Alun · 12-09-2016 12:49PM

The only info I can offer is that it's very indistinct on the ground for the most part, much less obvious than it appears from the aerial photos. I've tried following it using a phone with EW Mapping's detailed map on it and even then it's extremely difficult.

slowburner · 12-09-2016 09:20PM

Yakov P. Golyadkin wrote: »

I can't give you any direct help but I would recommend looking in the Liam Price Notebooks, if there is to be any information found on the road I imagine it would be in there.

Price doesn't mention it. Thanks anyway.

slowburner · 12-09-2016 09:32PM

Alun wrote: »

The only info I can offer is that it's very indistinct on the ground for the most part, much less obvious than it appears from the aerial photos. I've tried following it using a phone with EW Mapping's detailed map on it and even then it's extremely difficult.

I walked a good length of it today. Perhaps it was the time of year, with clear differences in the vegetation that made it very easy to follow. The upper side is boulder lined, and the lower side is an earth and stone bank. There are occasional signs of a metalled surface between the two banks.
It was a labour intensive construction. Wide and built to last. To engage in such a substantial construction, there has to have been some substantial reward. It does not relate to any of the mines, and there is no sign of sustained turf-cutting.
Insert theory here....

slowburner · 13-09-2016 06:32AM

Here is a view of a portion of the Madman's road. The view is towards the E/SE. The road can be seen running diagonally from upper left to lower right in the photo.

Standard Toaster · 13-09-2016 06:42AM

Any idea where it got the name Mad Man's Road?
Fascinating stuff.

slowburner · 13-09-2016 07:53AM

Standard Toaster wrote: »

Any idea where it got the name Mad Man's Road?
Fascinating stuff.

No idea!

13-09-2016 01:20PM

slowburner wrote: »

Price doesn't mention it. Thanks anyway.

I'm disappointed in him!
Anything I've seen online suggests it was a famine relief project, a theory that would make sense - a road seemingly to, and from, nowhere. As far as I recall there's an abandoned village on the other side of Brockagh that emptied out after the famine, could this road have provided employment for these villagers?
I have a map of the Wicklow uplands from 1803 and it shows no sign of the Madman's Road, does it feature on the historical OSI maps? (I'm on the phone so can't check).

slowburner · 13-09-2016 02:06PM

Yakov P. Golyadkin wrote: »

I'm disappointed in him!
Anything I've seen online suggests it was a famine relief project, a theory that would make sense - a road seemingly to, and from, nowhere. As far as I recall there's an abandoned village on the other side of Brockagh that emptied out after the famine, could this road have provided employment for these villagers?
I have a map of the Wicklow uplands from 1803 and it shows no sign of the Madman's Road, does it feature on the historical OSI maps? (I'm on the phone so can't check).

A portion of the road to the east of Glendasan is shown on the OSI first edition map, and nothing at all is shown on the second ed. although it can be difficult to know what date the second editions are - anywhere from 1850ish to 1911.
The road begins close to the Seven Fonts area, and terminates abruptly in the middle of nowhere - according to the mapping. However, it is clearly visible running up to and over the Wicklow Gap, where it merges with the existing main road.
The famine relief road is a strong possibility I guess. Hard to know from observation alone. Given how substantial it is, I would expect that it would have taken a considerable amount of time to construct - or many people, or both. By my reckoning, the visible section is around 5km. After that it is submerged in forestry.

recedite · 14-09-2016 07:19PM

slowburner wrote: »

A portion of the road to the east of Glendasan is shown on the OSI first edition map

I think the earlier 6 inch map is approx 1829 to 1841, so the dates would seem to rule out the famine (at least the main or "great" famine in the 1840's)
There is a lot of nonsense anyway that is told and taught about the famine. I remember being taught at school that "Indian Corn" or maize was given to people, but they couldn't eat it because they didn't know how to cook it. It was only years later that it occurred to me that was nonsense. As regards famine roads they were, in the main, useful works of public infastructure paid for by public funding, such as roads and harbours. Some private landlords also commissioned useless "follies" to glorify their own names. This appears to be neither. The pilgrims path, St Kevins Way, is there on the other side of the valley. Surely it would have been more likely the target for any famine relief upgrade work, if the money was available.

I wonder if it was somehow connected with the mining works around there.

slowburner · 14-09-2016 08:51PM

The earliest record for mining is circa 1806 in Glendasan, and I have since learned that the road is believed to have been abandoned by 1826. This is from the National Monuments Service. It is slightly speculative, and by no means definitive.
The record begins with a statement that there is very little known about this road, apart from the fact that some of the stone lining shows evidence of charge holes. These were bored to receive black powder charges for blasting rock. If the stone lining has charge holes, then it implies the routeway is probably contemporary with the early 19th c. mine workings.
There are certainly charge holes in a routeway that is unmistakably connected with the mine workings. That is to be expected. However, I think the record entry may have come from someone who examined a portion of road in direct association with the mine workings.
At the lower reaches of Glendasan, there are a number of indistinct but definite miners' routeways. I believe that the observer may have confused these with the main track of the Madman's road through the bog, and on up to the Gap; or understandably, didn't follow it up through the bog. I have followed it from a location I would rather keep to myself, up to the Gap, and I saw nothing that indicates contemporaeity with mining. The structure is completely different to the miners' paths/roads.
Another problem with the abandoned mining road theory is that the road goes up and over the gap. That makes no sense in mining terms. The crusher house was at the lower end of the valley, and there is no evidence for mining anywhere near the upper two thirds of the Madman's road.
The record goes on to suggest that the road may have been constructed to provide preliminary access to the mines: before it was known where the main ore bodies were located. As the profitable lodes were identified, and because they happened to be relatively close to the existing main road, the Madman's road may have been abandoned in favour of utilising the existing road.
If this is the rationale, then it's not difficult to see how the road got its name! Mining is always a case of cutting your losses.
I have my reservations though. I am still not convinced that mining alone explains the curious route and structure of this piece of Wicklow's heritage.

Maudi · 19-09-2016 08:32PM

Hi Slow burner..I've often noticed this feature whilst driving through the valley ..could it be natural?

slowburner · 22-09-2016 08:48PM

Maudi wrote: »

Hi Slow burner..I've often noticed this feature whilst driving through the valley ..could it be natural?

It is definitely a roadway.

Maudi · 23-09-2016 12:06PM

slowburner wrote: »

It is definitely a roadway.

I'm probably getting it mixed up with something else..but I've often noticed it.. coming over the gap from Hollywood up on the left bank of the valley. I was once driving with someone else and I remember asking them ..their reply was that it was the ancient shore line of a glacial lake..

glenmac · 27-09-2016 05:25PM

Having walked the Madmans Road several times I am of the opinion that it could have been a drovers road connecting Glenmacnass with the Wicklow Gap.There is a track that comes quite close to the madmans road up from Glenmacnass.I spoke to my father (he is 95) and he can not shed any light on it.

Madman's Road.

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