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4 months pregnant & employer will not allow me to take nights off with doctors cert.

  • 22-09-2016 11:41AM
    #1
    seriousally01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16 ✭


    Hi everyone..

    Hope this isn't too long winded..I'm currently 4 half months pregnant and work in a busy nightclub/bar in Cork.

    Most of my work is office based but one night a week where I am based on the floor in the club. (9pm-12am). Unfortunately, I have a pregnancy condition which does prevent me from over exerting myself too much with me left in agony come evening times (for example if I were to hoover, give good clean to house).

    I have been to my doctor who advised me not to work nights - when notifying employer this, he literally bit the head off me and forbid it, it was either do the job or not do it at all..

    I am left in such a predicament as feel bullied to work the nights - I am trying to go easy ,but it's very difficult as I manage a lot of evening bookings and do a lot of running around.

    Is there anything I can do??


    Thank you in advance
    Tagged:


«1

Comments

  • #2
    antix80
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,417 ✭✭✭antix80


    Rest during the day in preparation for your shift.
    Ask for reduced hours.
    Take maternity leave when possible.


  • #3
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,979 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Your employer needs to do a risk assessment. He may need to place you on health and safety leave, if the job cannot be modified so you can perform it safely.

    Perhaps ask Citizens Informaiton to speak to your employer about his responsibilities here.


  • #4
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,701 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    You can go on maternity leave at 24 weeks 4.5 months is 19 weeks so just apply to go on maternity leave in 5 weeks and take it really handy on the night shift


  • #5
    Lux23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    You do three hours once a week and he can't get someone else in? Is he not worried that he could be responsible for you miscarrying? What an eegit. Can your doctor give you a note saying that you can't work on your feet, your employer may cop on then.


  • #6
    antix80
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,417 ✭✭✭antix80


    Lux23 wrote: »
    You do three hours once a week and he can't get someone else in? Is he not worried that he could be responsible for you miscarrying? What an eegit. Can your doctor give you a note saying that you can't work on your feet, your employer may cop on then.

    Lux, first, the op says she's exhausted because of hoovering and cleaning the house before the late shift. This is not the employer's fault.

    Also, if the op presented such a note, she would not be permitted to work at all.


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  • #7
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Your employer is obliged to find alternative work for you, and if they can't they are obliged to put you on health and safety leave until your maternity leave begins.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/health_and_safety/health_safety_work.html

    You should notify your employer that you cannot continue with the night work and tell him that he legally must either reassign you, or grant you health and safety leave. You cannot be fired.


  • #8
    seriousally01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16 ✭seriousally01


    Thanks guys for the replies..

    antix, no I don't mean I would be doing the hoovering/cleaning house before work, I mean in general if I over do it in anyway, I end up in a lot of pain.

    What I have is S.P.D (pain associated with the pelvis) and I also carry to my back so my bump is very small (barely there!) so I don't know if that's why he isn't taking it seriously.

    I work 40 hours, so 4 of those hours are on the weekend night to look after bookings etc.. I think it's more stubbornness than anything else with him.

    There is no HR in my place, I mentioned it to the payroll manager about Occupational hazard assessment and they reckon, he wouldn't be happy at all hearing i'd look for that or a health & safety assessment. How do I get that without looking like i'm being sneaky or for him to hold grudge against me?

    Thanks for all the replies so far, really appreciate it.


  • #9
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    You may not be able to do anything here without him holding a grudge, simply because he's a prick.

    Rule number 1 in the workplace is to always look out for your own interests, because nobody else will. You have no reason to avoid pissing him off; he has no respect for you.

    Go to him with the certificate from your doctor and a letter confirming your inability to work nights. Within that letter make it clear that due to your condition you will no longer be in a position to attend work on Saturday nights and in accordance with the Maternity Protection Act, he has an obligation to accommodate this.

    Be reasonable - offer to simply not work and not get paid for those 4 hours. That makes things simpler all around. If you think you can give him one or two more Saturday nights to sort his sh1t out, then do that too.

    If he tries to discipline you or fire you for not turning up, then you get yourself a solicitor and rip him to shreds for firing a employee for being pregnant.


  • #10
    seriousally01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16 ✭seriousally01


    seamus wrote: »
    You may not be able to do anything here without him holding a grudge, simply because he's a prick.

    Rule number 1 in the workplace is to always look out for your own interests, because nobody else will. You have no reason to avoid pissing him off; he has no respect for you.

    Go to him with the certificate from your doctor and a letter confirming your inability to work nights. Within that letter make it clear that due to your condition you will no longer be in a position to attend work on Saturday nights and in accordance with the Maternity Protection Act, he has an obligation to accommodate this.

    Be reasonable - offer to simply not work and not get paid for those 4 hours. That makes things simpler all around. If you think you can give him one or two more Saturday nights to sort his sh1t out, then do that too.

    If he tries to discipline you or fire you for not turning up, then you get yourself a solicitor and rip him to shreds for firing a employee for being pregnant.
    seamus, thanks for the advice, really appreciate that. You're right about looking after my own interests, no one else here will. You make it sound a lot simpler than what I have in my head.

    I am a little worried about rattling his cage (if he fires me) as I need the wages and my maternity benefit which I can't receive unless I'm working up until the end - so a little stuck there. I can't see myself returning here after maternity after this.

    I'll go back to my doctor again and see if she can write a more detailed letter & fingers crossed he may open his eyes a bit more.


  • #11
    Lux23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    antix80 wrote: »
    Lux, first, the op says she's exhausted because of hoovering and cleaning the house before the late shift. This is not the employer's fault.

    Also, if the op presented such a note, she would not be permitted to work at all.

    No, he is obliged to relieve her of any work that is deemed not safe while she is pregnant. He is completely responsible.


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  • #12
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    seamus wrote: »
    You may not be able to do anything here without him holding a grudge, simply because he's a prick.

    Rule number 1 in the workplace is to always look out for your own interests, because nobody else will. You have no reason to avoid pissing him off; he has no respect for you.

    Go to him with the certificate from your doctor and a letter confirming your inability to work nights. Within that letter make it clear that due to your condition you will no longer be in a position to attend work on Saturday nights and in accordance with the Maternity Protection Act, he has an obligation to accommodate this.

    Be reasonable - offer to simply not work and not get paid for those 4 hours. That makes things simpler all around. If you think you can give him one or two more Saturday nights to sort his sh1t out, then do that too.

    If he tries to discipline you or fire you for not turning up, then you get yourself a solicitor and rip him to shreds for firing a employee for being pregnant.


    As far as I am aware the employer must do a risk assessment and if the employee is unable to do the job they would normally do, the employer has an obligation to offer alternative duties, but only if they exist. If none exist, then the employee cannot carry out her duties and would be signed off (unpaid) on health and safety grounds.

    Given that this is a nightclub, I'd say there are limited non manual jobs during the day on Saturday when it probably isn't open.

    Edit: found relevant legislation and employer is obliged to offer day work, if there is any:


  • #13
    seriousally01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16 ✭seriousally01


    hi davo10,
    my work during the day is office based however for those 4 hours which I am enquiring about, it is floor based, standing and A LOT of stair climbing - endless stairs here , pretty much run off my feet as it's hectic.

    So the work during the week would be completely different to the saturday work that is evening time..


  • #14
    Borzoi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,873 ✭✭✭Borzoi


    davo10 wrote: »
    As far as I am aware the employer must do a risk assessment and if the employee is unable to do the job they would normally do, the employer has an obligation to offer alternative duties, but only if they exist. If none exist, then the employee cannot carry out her duties and would be signed off (unpaid) on health and safety grounds.
    You should read the legislation again. If alternative work cannot be reasonably provided the employee is entitled to 21 days paid leave - given that in this case were talking about 3hours a week, well it's in the employer's interest to find directions the alternative.

    but OP you should make sure that your employer has been formally advised in writing of your condition your doctors opinion, as they sound like gob****es and a brush with the Irish Legal system would make the world a slightly better place


  • #15
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Borzoi wrote: »
    You should read the legislation again. If alternative work cannot be reasonably provided the employee is entitled to 21 days paid leave - given that in this case were talking about 3hours a week, well it's in the employer's interest to find directions the alternative.

    Paid for the first 21 days/3 weeks of H&S leave, that is 9 hours. If nightclub isn't open during the day on a Saturday, hard to see what other job there might be.


  • #16
    ForestFire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,275 ✭✭✭ForestFire


    Hi Sally,

    Please see link to previous post I made with regard to you rights.
    The link provided here give good easy to understand information that you might find helpful.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86145131&postcount=4

    Actually the link is broken and the new website is now very good to find the update.

    i will look for a downloaded copy and let you know if I have it.


  • #17
    Mango Joe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Mango Joe


    Antix80 trolling a pregnant, worried woman due to idle trouble making and general misogyny is very sad, inexcusable and dumb...... Employer is an ignorant fool and shouldn't prosper in a civilised society.


  • #18
    Wesser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Wesser


    Lux23 wrote: »
    You do three hours once a week and he can't get someone else in? Is he not worried that he could be responsible for you miscarrying? What an eegit. Can your doctor give you a note saying that you can't work on your feet, your employer may cop on then.

    Working three hours a week on your feet does not cause miscarriage. It may cause exhaustion pain misery swollen feet etc but it does not cause miscarriage.

    If walking for three hours on your feet causes miscarriage then every woman who works in her feet nurses supermarket waitress and has a miscarriage could say that her employer has caused her to miscarry......

    Whether or not the OP should be off her feet as she is in pain is a seperate issue and may be justified. But being on your feet does not cause miscarriage.


  • #19
    Amanda.ie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 185 ✭✭Amanda.ie


    seamus wrote: »
    Your employer is obliged to find alternative work for you, and if they can't they are obliged to put you on health and safety leave until your maternity leave begins.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/health_and_safety/health_safety_work.html

    You should notify your employer that you cannot continue with the night work and tell him that he legally must either reassign you, or grant you health and safety leave. You cannot be fired.

    Would you say 9pm to 12am is night work? In this case pregnant women would only work days?

    For the OP her boss is an idiot, three hours is easily replaceable.


  • #20
    rawn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭rawn


    Amanda.ie wrote: »
    Would you say 9pm to 12am is night work? In this case pregnant women would only work days?

    For the OP her boss is an idiot, three hours is easily replaceable.

    I work 4pm to 12:30am 5 days a week and am 6 months pregnant. I don't think it's the hours that are the issue but that she is unable to do the work she is required to do when she does that shift. The manager needs to take her off that shift altogether or find a way for her to do it in the office.


  • #21
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    rawn wrote: »
    I work 4pm to 12:30am 5 days a week and am 6 months pregnant. I don't think it's the hours that are the issue but that she is unable to do the work she is required to do when she does that shift. The manager needs to take her off that shift altogether or find a way for her to do it in the office.

    I think that as the OP says that the pain/strain of her SPD builds up during the day, she gets to a point in the evening where she is in physical pain and cannot do the walking/staircliming required for the evening work.

    It's no comparison, but I've a chronic knee injury and the pain from it gradually builds during the day meaning that while I might be hopping up the stairs in the morning, by 8pm in the evening I'm creaking up the stairs like an arthrithic geriatric.

    If that's the case I can understand the OP being advised not to do the evening/night work by her doctor as it will just add to the strain.

    Actually from a mod point of view, I'm wondering if this might be better in the pregnancy forum so op could get advice from others who might have been in this situation.

    Op if you want this moved to the pregnancy forum let me know.


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  • #22
    Amanda.ie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 185 ✭✭Amanda.ie


    rawn wrote: »
    I work 4pm to 12:30am 5 days a week and am 6 months pregnant. I don't think it's the hours that are the issue but that she is unable to do the work she is required to do when she does that shift. The manager needs to take her off that shift altogether or find a way for her to do it in the office.

    Im not sure she qualifies for health and safety leave, night work is midnight to 7am and at least three hours between these hours.

    I can't see how her employer couldn't replace her for these hours.


  • #23
    seriousally01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16 ✭seriousally01


    Stheno wrote: »
    I think that as the OP says that the pain/strain of her SPD builds up during the day, she gets to a point in the evening where she is in physical pain and cannot do the walking/staircliming required for the evening work.

    It's no comparison, but I've a chronic knee injury and the pain from it gradually builds during the day meaning that while I might be hopping up the stairs in the morning, by 8pm in the evening I'm creaking up the stairs like an arthrithic geriatric.

    If that's the case I can understand the OP being advised not to do the evening/night work by her doctor as it will just add to the strain.

    Actually from a mod point of view, I'm wondering if this might be better in the pregnancy forum so op could get advice from others who might have been in this situation.

    Op if you want this moved to the pregnancy forum let me know.


    That's exactly it! I'm perfectly okay but literally come towards the end of the day it's a different story.. and that's where my issue lies with the evening work..
    Maybe that would be a good idea to move to pregnancy forum? Will I lose all the convo??


  • #24
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    seriousally01 wrote: »
    That's exactly it! I'm perfectly okay but literally come towards the end of the day it's a different story.. and that's where my issue lies with the evening work..
    Maybe that would be a good idea to move to pregnancy forum? Will I lose all the convo??

    Ah thanks :) I was trying to just give a comparison.

    Yes I can move it to pregnancy, and all of the posts will move for you, if you'd like me to do that then let me know.


  • #25
    seriousally01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16 ✭seriousally01


    Stheno wrote: »
    Ah thanks :) I was trying to just give a comparison.

    Yes I can move it to pregnancy, and all of the posts will move for you, if you'd like me to do that then let me know.


    Yes stheno appreciate it


  • #26
    seriousally01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16 ✭seriousally01


    rawn wrote: »
    I work 4pm to 12:30am 5 days a week and am 6 months pregnant. I don't think it's the hours that are the issue but that she is unable to do the work she is required to do when she does that shift. The manager needs to take her off that shift altogether or find a way for her to do it in the office.

    Hi rawn, no it's not so much the hours that is the issue, more so that come evening time I'm usually fit to live in a hot water bath to soothe aches and pains accumulated from the day..I am on my feet an awful lot more on the shift in comparison to the office the other 4 days. I can't see why he is making a huge issue from it as how other posters mentioned it is just 3 / 4 hours which can be covered.. very frustrating


  • #27
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    seriousally01 wrote: »
    Hi rawn, no it's not so much the hours that is the issue, more so that come evening time I'm usually fit to live in a hot water bath to soothe aches and pains accumulated from the day..I am on my feet an awful lot more on the shift in comparison to the office the other 4 days. I can't see why he is making a huge issue from it as how other posters mentioned it is just 3 / 4 hours which can be covered.. very frustrating

    Is your office job dependent on you doing this evening work? If not, would you not consider just giving up the late hour job and sticking with the part time office job during the day?


  • #28
    Sunny Dayz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,519 ✭✭✭Sunny Dayz


    I appreciate that you probably can't go into too much detail as to what your evening shift in the club entails - but are there any aspects of that shift can that be done while resting on a high stool, chair, behind the bar, etc? Can you get any other member of staff to do things while you supervise?


  • #29
    seriousally01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16 ✭seriousally01


    hi sunnydayz, no none at all..I organise groups so there's nothing I can do sitting down or behind the bar, i'm on my feet and can't go sitting anywhere unfortunately.
    Everybody else has their roles and are very busy here so I can't rely on anyone else to help me for the time i'm here.
    I received my first appt with my physio for october, so not sure do I approach boss again with this for another conversation.. I'm pretty upfront usually but to be honest, I was made feel very belittled last time, i'm anxious to approach him again (I blame the pregnancy hormones too! :O)


  • #30
    Musketeer4
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 657 ✭✭✭Musketeer4


    My advice would be to give your employer enough rope to hang themselves.
    They cannot legally discriminate against you for being pregnant.

    Refuse to work nights on basis of doctors advice, let him sack you and then take him to the cleaners.


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  • #31
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Musketeer4 wrote: »
    My advice would be to give your employer enough rope to hang themselves.
    They cannot legally discriminate against you for being pregnant.

    Refuse to work nights on basis of doctors advice, let him sack you and then take him to the cleaners.

    Op is not working nights. Night work is defined as being after midnight and for a minimum of 3 hours. Op is still working during the day when working the hours related to this thread. If she cannot work during the day and no other duties can be found for her to do earlier in the day (unlikely as its a night club), then op will be signed off on H&S leave and have to make do with 9hrs pay over the next 3 weeks before going unpaid for rest of maternity leave.

    The employer cannot discriminate, but at the same time, if the op cannot do her duties and others can't be allocated, then the employer has no choice but to sign her off.


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