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Read Rich Dad Poor Dad - Want to put it in to action

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Comments

  • #32
    alb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭alb


    The growth is irrelevant if you get similar growth in non-pension investments.


  • #33
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,224 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    alb wrote: »
    The growth is irrelevant if you get similar growth in non-pension investments.

    If you can get similar growth in a non pension investment then a pension still works out better. You're investing €100 with a pension and only €60 with a non pension investment.


  • #34
    iainBB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 460 ✭✭iainBB


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    If you can get similar growth in a non pension investment then a pension still works out better. You're investing €100 with a pension and only €60 with a non pension investment.

    You have to do better growth then your pension minus the hidden expenses.
    If you to the pension board site growth EST over 30 was 3 /4 % a year.


  • #35
    alb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭alb


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    If you can get similar growth in a non pension investment then a pension still works out better. You're investing €100 with a pension and only €60 with a non pension investment.

    Pop quiz. Which investment has earned more after 30 years assuming a 5% growth per annum - €60 with 0% managment fee, or €100 with a 2% management fee?


  • #36
    conditioned games
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 683 ✭✭✭conditioned games


    Better ways to grow wealth than wasting an investment in a pension. Every 8 or 9 yrs when a market crash happens the pension loses most of it's value and has to start over. Gold has been the best investment over the last 20yrs. Best investment now is physical silver, after the global financial system resets you'll have something very valuable rather than an investment that has become worthless.


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  • #37
    topper_harley2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 537 ✭✭✭topper_harley2


    conditioned games wrote: »
    Better ways to grow wealth than wasting an investment in a pension. Every 8 or 9 yrs when a market crash happens the pension loses most of it's value and has to start over. Gold has been the best investment over the last 20yrs. Best investment now is physical silver, after the global financial system resets you'll have something very valuable rather than an investment that has become worthless.
    Sure saying that about gold is great, about a tiny 20 year time frame, after the event. Silver? We'll come back in 20 years and see if youre right! :rolleyes:


  • #38
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    topper_harley2 wrote: »
    Sure saying that about gold is great, about a tiny 20 year time frame, after the event. Silver? We'll come back in 20 years and see if youre right! :rolleyes:

    his point i think is that you can switch if you are investing but pensions are playing the averages and so get hit by the bumps


  • #39
    Cute Hoor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Cute Hoor


    I'm probably in danger of getting seriously outside my comfort zone here.
    alb wrote: »
    What returns he makes may be less relevant than what fees he takes. If he's making returns, then maybe a passive fund I invest in personally outside of a pension scheme makes similar.

    In my eyes there is a serious relevance between the returns he makes and the fees he takes. If he is making serious returns I am less worried about the fees he takes. If my pension fund is making a serious loss then I am pretty pi33ed off with the fees he takes (as well as his/her poor management). I'm assuming that the 'passive fund' manager isn't doing it pro bono? I'm not saying, or attempting to say, that a passive fund you invest (nett) in won't return better longterm results than a managed pension fund (gross) that another invests in, only time will tell.

    alb wrote: »
    How about doing the numbers on how much that salesman takes if there's a 1.5% annual fee over what lets say a 30 year lifetime of the pension. How much have you lost in fees then? how much would you lose in fees if the pension grew to 2 or 3 million over that time?

    You are asking me to do serious sums here, and I'm assuming you already have the answers.
    Using the factual example (second one) I gave above and extrapolating that out over lets say a 30 year lifetime of the pension, a €575k nett (€1m gross) investment (once off) would be generating a pension pot of around €8m, give or take a few grand. at the end, allowing for all the snake oiler fees. Why would I be overly bothered what the snake oiler had made at that stage, wouldn't we both as happy as a pig in sh1te, I might even be sending him around a balthazar


  • #40
    Cute Hoor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Cute Hoor


    conditioned games wrote: »
    Better ways to grow wealth than wasting an investment in a pension. Every 8 or 9 yrs when a market crash happens the pension loses most of it's value and has to start over. Gold has been the best investment over the last 20yrs. Best investment now is physical silver, after the global financial system resets you'll have something very valuable rather than an investment that has become worthless.

    Ah man welcome back, long time no hear, what's your view now on this
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=96752484


  • #41
    lcwill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 259 ✭✭lcwill


    alb wrote: »
    Pop quiz. Which investment has earned more after 30 years assuming a 5% growth per annum - €60 with 0% managment fee, or €100 with a 2% management fee?

    I guess you know the answer is 60 at 5% but it is a great example to prove how important low fees are.

    However the question should be about investing 60 euro or 100 euro every month and then the hundred wins out clearly. The accumulated tax savings outweigh the difference in fees.

    Then it is a question of how you get the money out - you get more benefits from a pension if you pay in as a higher rate tax payer, and take out as ordinary rate tax payer, plus you have the tax free lump sum.


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  • #42
    phantom_lord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,895 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    alb wrote: »
    Pop quiz. Which investment has earned more after 30 years assuming a 5% growth per annum - €60 with 0% managment fee, or €100 with a 2% management fee?

    The 60 wins just about, if the 100 pays twice the percentage of fees that you have to in real life, and if the 60 pays no fees, which isn't possible, even with Vanguard. That should say it all really.
    conditioned games wrote: »
    Better ways to grow wealth than wasting an investment in a pension. Every 8 or 9 yrs when a market crash happens the pension loses most of it's value and has to start over. Gold has been the best investment over the last 20yrs. Best investment now is physical silver, after the global financial system resets you'll have something very valuable rather than an investment that has become worthless.

    Oh, the gold bugs have appeared. I'm out.


  • #43
    conditioned games
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 683 ✭✭✭conditioned games


    Cute Hoor wrote: »
    Ah man welcome back, long time no hear, what's your view now on this
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=96752484

    Cheers the view continues to be the same. I have continued to accumulate physical silver since then and relaxed in the safe knowledge I am prepared for when confidence in this global experiment of massive currency printing and government debt creation has run its course.


  • #44
    Nermal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭Nermal


    alb wrote: »
    Pop quiz. Which investment has earned more after 30 years assuming a 5% growth per annum - €60 with 0% managment fee, or €100 with a 2% management fee?

    The non-pension investment pays CGT every 8 years while the pension grows tax-free. Income from the pension will also have tax advantages.

    The difference in fees is not always as clear cut. There are pensions out there with TERs comparable to Vanguard.


  • #45
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,089 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    PeterTheNinth wrote: »
    ........... I've seen what's happened to other people's pensions since the crash. A bit simplistic probably, but that is what I've done. .............

    Have you actually seen what happened people's pension or heard people rabbiting on about losses?

    The ftse 100 has recovered (got back in 2014) from 2008, the FSE 250 is now at 50% higher than it's peak pre crash so too the S&P 500.

    Coca Cola, J&J have never been higher. GSK, Pfizer are higher than pre crash but not at the highs before that. The AIBs & BOIs and the US equivalents are indeed fecked but how many people had the bulk of their pension in financial only stuff?

    If you diversify across currencies, sectors etc etc etc the likes of the 2008 crash isn't a huge issue if you are 10 + years from retirement.


  • #46
    jive
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    alb wrote: »
    On the other hand, you also have the advantage of not being locked in until retirement with non-pension investments.

    This is the only valid argument one can make against pensions IMO. Yes management charges are high but I self-invest also and the 1% I pay in my pension is worth not having the headache that is the Irish tax regime.

    Investing in a pension is much cheaper than self-investing after your income has been taxed and you then get hammered with CGT if you make gains; not to mention the fact in some cases you can't even offset losses of investment A with investment B meaning you will pay CGT despite not making any G!


  • #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,089 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    conditioned games wrote: »
    Better ways to grow wealth than wasting an investment in a pension. Every 8 or 9 yrs when a market crash happens the pension loses most of it's value............

    It loses 20/30% of it's value immediately pre crash. As you'd have been investing monthly in most cases over the 8/9 years to that point the bulk of your pension would have been "bought" at prices less than the post crash price.

    As with all things one must/should diversify with your money
    - put some in a pension, as much as you can appeals to many to get the most tax relief
    - have some on deposit
    - invest some if you like
    - if you don't have a tracker mortgage, "invest" some money by paying a bit extra every month or a lump every year
    - buy some gold or silver

    Don't have all your eggs in one basket.


  • #48
    Cute Hoor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Cute Hoor


    conditioned games wrote: »
    Cheers the view continues to be the same. I have continued to accumulate physical silver since then and relaxed in the safe knowledge I am prepared for when confidence in this global experiment of massive currency printing and government debt creation has run its course.

    I don't understand how your 'view continues to be the same', wasn't October 2015 to be armageddon for the financial system as we once knew it, it didn't happen did it? or maybe it did and I missed it.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=96752484


  • #49
    topper_harley2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 537 ✭✭✭topper_harley2


    Nermal wrote: »
    The non-pension investment pays CGT every 8 years while the pension grows tax-free.

    This is not correct. The eight year rule you are alluding is termed "deemed disposal" and only applies to life policies, unit linked funds and UCIT ETFs. These are subject to what is called "exit tax", which is 41%, and not CGT, which is 33%.

    You can easily construct a non-pension investment that is liable for CGT, which means it has no eight year rule. For this, you use US or Canadian domiciled ETFs.


  • #50
    PCeeeee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭PCeeeee


    topper_harley2 wrote: »
    This is not correct. The eight year rule you are alluding is termed "deemed disposal" and only applies to life policies, unit linked funds and UCIT ETFs. These are subject to what is called "exit tax", which is 41%, and not CGT, which is 33%.

    You can easily construct a non-pension investment that is liable for CGT, which means it has no eight year rule. For this, you use US or Canadian domiciled ETFs.


    Sorry to butt in but Topper could you possibly point me to more reading on CGT tax v exit tax please?


  • #51
    topper_harley2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 537 ✭✭✭topper_harley2


    PCeeeee wrote: »
    Sorry to butt in but Topper could you possibly point me to more reading on CGT tax v exit tax please?

    https://www.gillenmarkets.com/featured_articles/tax-issues-for-irish-residents.cfm

    http://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/the-tax-treatment-of-etfs-for-irish-residents.199443/

    They should give basic info.


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  • #52
    PeterTheNinth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭PeterTheNinth


    jose_doyle wrote: »
    rich dad poor dad is awful rubbish

    Hey guys, just back to the thread. I was studying for exam, which I got yesterday, so obviously now I'm entitled to sit back on my laurels for the next year or so and go through boards.ie for advice. :D

    Thanks to everybody who contributed, I'll print it out and go through it.


  • #53
    PCeeeee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭PCeeeee


    topper_harley2 wrote: »
    https://www.gillenmarkets.com/featured_articles/tax-issues-for-irish-residents.cfm

    http://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/the-tax-treatment-of-etfs-for-irish-residents.199443/

    They should give basic info.

    Thank you Topper


  • #54
    leandrolorenzi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86 ✭✭leandrolorenzi


    Anyone interested in attending the MMI intensive in Dublin in October. They offered me the 2x1 offer, so I could team up with someone.
    I could try to negotiate the price in case we are more than a pair.
    Currently it is 50 Eur each for the weekend General Seating and Millionaire Mind Intensive Basic Workbooks

    MILLIONAIRE MIND INTENSIVE in DUBLIN on 21-23 ​​​October, Friday-Sunday,
    Pm if interested


  • #55
    PeterTheNinth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭PeterTheNinth


    Just an update. I got John Lowe's Money Doctor Book, and it's a great ground up guide to all finances for the Irish market. Easy to read, well written, and covering all areas of personal finance, insurance, borrowing, investing.

    While it's not in any way a full guide on investing, I certainly learned a lot from it.

    http://www.dubraybooks.ie/The-Money-Doctor-2016_9780717168118

    0196121_9780717168118_300.jpeg

    And I'm used to buying IT books, so I couldnt believe that it was only €12.99


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