Gaeltacht man leaves job after being told not to speak Irish

OldNotWIse · 08-09-2016 04:49PM

livedadream wrote: »

he said he was forced to resign because he couldn't speak his native language.

he refused to start his shift after being told to speak english. he was told if he refused it would be considered failure to show up to do his job and his P45 was posted to him.

He wasn't forced to resign. He resigned because he didn't want to follow company policy.

livedadream · 08-09-2016 04:49PM

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

the old do it or else...
Honestly I have no sympathy for the chap. Of all the things to lose a job over like.

if it was polish staff members there would be war, their in ireland speak english,

this guy is causing a ruckus coz he has nothing better to do with his time.

he's a kid, its not like he's some sales exec on 100k a year that was forced to speak english to get his sales,

he works in an english speaking environment with a number of different nationalities and refused to follow the rules.

livedadream · 08-09-2016 04:50PM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

He wasn't forced to resign. He resigned because he didn't want to follow company policy.

i know, i said, he said he was forced to resign,

i didnt say that was my opinion.

andekwarhola · 08-09-2016 04:51PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I'm based in the UK where there are many reports of people being uncomfortable with Arabic or Farsi spoken. One of my colleagues is a Muslim chap who speaks Farsi to his kids. Work has no problem with this but he has been told to "speak English" on a bus or train. Some people might be uncomfortable with the language but there are others who are bigoted against a language or culture.

If we honour the complaints of people uncomfortable with a language then (in the UK at least) we set a dangerous precedent.

But before we depart on our high horses into a virtuous multicultural sunset, we need to establish if he was fired for privately talking Irish in his spare time to a like minded colleague or whether or not there was a work duty or disciplinary context dispute about it.

Even something relatively innocent like two workers conducting Irish conversations around a non Irish speaking boss isn't really polite or professional.

OldNotWIse · 08-09-2016 04:51PM

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Dead right. I presume you'll support me in firing all my black, gay, disabled and female staff?

All of these things fall under the heading of discrimination for the purpose of the Employment Equality Acts.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/equality_in_work/equality_in_the_workplace.html

Use of the Irish language does not.

Your point therefore is irrelevant.

Harvey Normal · 08-09-2016 04:51PM

seamus wrote: »

I have no problem with someone being fired for refusing to stick to company policy.

I don't see the "slippery slope" argument at all. It's one thing speaking to a customer in their own language, it's another thing speaking in a language that your colleagues and customers don't understand.

I don't understand most staff in Chinese, Indian, Vietnamese restaurants etc when they talk amongst themselves - should I complain?

hanky2016 · 08-09-2016 04:51PM

I worked in that hellhole and it doesnt surprise me in the slightest. they are horrific to work for and fire on the spot.

steddyeddy · 08-09-2016 04:52PM

andekwarhola wrote: »

But before we depart on our high horses into a virtuous multicultural sunset, we need to establish if he was fired for talking Irish on his spare time to a like minded colleague or whether or not there was a work duty or disciplinary context dispute about it.

I'm not necessarily talking about this case. I don't think we should inform company policy because someone is uncomfortable with a language or expression of culture.

steddyeddy · 08-09-2016 04:53PM

Harvey Normal wrote: »

I don't understand most staff in Chinese, Indian, Vietnamese restaurants etc when they talk amongst themselves - should I complain?

Exactly. Arabic freaks some people out too. Should their complaints be honoured?

OldNotWIse · 08-09-2016 04:53PM

livedadream wrote: »

i know, i said, he said he was forced to resign,

i didnt say that was my opinion.

edit: ok I get your post now, sorry

Laika123 · 08-09-2016 04:54PM

hanky2016 wrote: »

I worked in that hellhole and it doesnt surprise me in the slightest. they are horrific to work for and fire on the spot.

Someone re-order the pitch forks.

seamus · 08-09-2016 04:54PM

CaePae wrote: »

I didn't realise he was speaking Irish to customers and colleagues who didn't understand Irish. That is clearly very ignorent, no wonder he got the sack.

He didn't get the sack.

steddyeddy wrote: »

I'm based in the UK where there are many reports of people being uncomfortable with Arabic or Farsi spoken. One of my colleagues is a Muslim chap who speaks Farsi to his kids. Work has no problem with this but he has been told to "speak English" on a bus or train. Some people might be uncomfortable with the language but there are others who are bigoted against a language or culture.

That's an entirely different thing.

He's been advised not to speak certain languages in public. That's nothing to do with his employer. That's because some people are idiots.

If this colleague of yours was in a meeting with you and another Muslim colleague and they sat there speaking Arabic for most of the time, would you shrug it off? Or would you feel really uncomfortable and excluded?

seamus · 08-09-2016 04:55PM

Harvey Normal wrote: »

I don't understand most staff in Chinese, Indian, Vietnamese restaurants etc when they talk amongst themselves - should I complain?

You can if you want. Nobody is stopping you.

Laika123 · 08-09-2016 04:55PM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

She said, he said, she didn't say it, she was quoting him.

andekwarhola · 08-09-2016 04:56PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I'm not necessarily talking about this case. I don't think we should inform company policy because someone is uncomfortable with a language or expression of culture.

The problem with an expression of culture or language here is the context. It's not a program against same, rather a workplace where business is conducted in English.

I'd be suspicious that a sudden vociferous defence of Irish (by fluent English speakers) around people without Irish (in a business context) has some kind of antagonistic grandstanding context.

Harvey Normal · 08-09-2016 04:58PM

seamus wrote: »

You can if you want. Nobody is stopping you.

Should the management act on my complaint? Is it legitimate and legal?

I say no to both.

Harvey Normal · 08-09-2016 05:00PM

andekwarhola wrote: »

The problem with an expression of culture or language here is the context. It's not a program against same, rather a workplace where business is conducted in English.

I'd be suspicious that a sudden vociferous defence of Irish (by fluent English speakers) around people without Irish (in a business context) has some kind of antagonistic grandstanding context.

Business is conducted - that's not staff talking amongst themselves. In my workplace there are many different languages spoken outside meetings - lunch breaks, conversations between people of the same nationality etc.

wandatowell · 08-09-2016 05:01PM

Weird one. I used to work in an Off-Licence and on an occasion you would have tourists and they would be in looking at Irish Whiskeys and often asked to hear some Irish its then I that I'd roll out a bit of Irish song "Is Buachaill Bó Mise"

bnt · 08-09-2016 05:02PM

I still don't think we've heard the whole story. We've already had the OP convert "resigned" to "fired". We have RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta - the mouthpiece of the Gaeltacht - repeating the story as told to them by the former employee in question. It's a Thursday, a slow news day if you aren't trying to catch a bus in Dublin.

Am I overreaching if I presume that RnaG has an agenda to promote the Ghaeilge, and are quite happy to sex up the story for bit of the old Béarla-baiting? :rolleyes:

seamus · 08-09-2016 05:03PM

Harvey Normal wrote: »

Should the management act on my complaint? Is it legitimate and legal?

I say no to both.

Legitimate depends on the business, the staff and the clientele. Legal, absolutely. There is nothing illegal about a company requiring their staff to conduct their work in a given language.

Ted111 · 08-09-2016 05:04PM

It seems a bit insecure or controlling - I don't want staff talking around me unless I know exactly what they're saying.

Laika123 · 08-09-2016 05:05PM

seamus wrote: »

Legitimate depends on the business, the staff and the clientele. Legal, absolutely. There is nothing illegal about a company requiring their staff to conduct their work in a given language.

Your going to have to change your name to James.

Alun · 08-09-2016 05:09PM

Ted111 wrote: »

It seems a bit insecure or controlling - I don't want staff talking around me unless I know exactly what they're saying.

I've worked in a number of international, multilingual situations and the golden rule has always been that the working language, whatever that is, usually English, is to be used at all times during business hours. I've personally witnessed situations in which two or more people have deliberately switched to another, shared, language to slag off other people in the group under the mistaken assumption that nobody around them understood it, so it does happen.

Harvey Normal · 08-09-2016 05:14PM

seamus wrote: »

Legitimate depends on the business, the staff and the clientele. Legal, absolutely. There is nothing illegal about a company requiring their staff to conduct their work in a given language.

This is conversations between staff (and with Irish speaking customers) not business. Are you sure about the legality of banning conversations in an official language? Could English be banned between staff in certain circumstances?

Tombo2001 · 08-09-2016 05:15PM

Laika123 wrote: »

Your going to have to change your name to James.

Quite right.

Not sure if I can handle talking to someone with an Irish name when they have a perfectly good alternative English name.

To be honest, this would be offensive to me, ergo it would be offensive to everybody - massively offensive - really its a crime, people should be jailed for it......ten year stretch wouldn't be good enough.

Internet outrage really is a wonderful outlet for creativity. Its an art form in itself.

Riskymove · 08-09-2016 05:18PM

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Dead right. I presume you'll support me in firing all my black, gay, disabled and female staff?

There is nothing stopping you firing black, gay, disabled and female staff

the issue is the reason for them being fired

seamus · 08-09-2016 05:22PM

Laika123 wrote: »

Your going to have to change your name to James.

Fun Fact (OK, not fun at all): Proper names don't actually have a language, a name is a name and remains the same regardless of what language you're speaking.

The english-speaking news doesn't call the president of France "Frank Holland" and the French news doesn't try to translate "Enda Kenny" into French.

This weirdness of translating Irish peoples' names into a bastardised Gaelic is a consequence of attempting to force the Irish language upon people in school. It is in fact entirely wrong from every perspective to translate someone's name. Poor ettiquette and very disrespectful.

Laika123 · 08-09-2016 05:24PM

Riskymove wrote: »

There is nothing stopping you firing black, gay, disabled and female staff

the issue is the reason for them being fired

Because he's the CEO of the KKK.

CaePae · 08-09-2016 05:25PM

seamus wrote: »

This weirdness of translating Irish peoples' names into a bastardised Gaelic is a consequence of attempting to force the Irish language upon people in school.

Of course. Irish people always used the normal English spelling for their names. It was only in the 19th century that Gaelic Leaguers started trying to spell their names the way some bogger from Conamara would pronounce them. Thats where all these so called "Irish Names" came from.

Arghus · 08-09-2016 05:26PM

There's clearly more to the story than just being fired for speaking Irish.

And if there isn't, then I'm an Irish speaking Chinaman.

Gaeltacht man leaves job after being told not to speak Irish

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