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2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Of course the right wing biased media would admit to their right wing bias, just look at how directly FOX News and USA Today are integrated into the Republicans, the Republicans ringing up these media outlets telling them what they should and should not broadcast/write.
    The free media... :pac:
    Funny how easy it is to just sling baseless nonsense back and forward when you don't have to focus on any of the details, isn't it? :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    Lads maybe I'm having a dumb moment but how exactly can Obama or Clinton be blamed for a death in 2004 when neither were in a position of power until 2008. Now unless I've misread what she Said.

    The Trump campaign has made all sorts of accusations over the past year, a lot of them not true and even when called out on them, stand their ground and never apologise or correct anything.

    So far, its done them no harm, the Trump supporters are lapping it up.

    For example:
    https://twitter.com/3rdEyeSociety_/status/760213908514897920

    Crime is supposedly down, but Republicans say you can keep your facts, it suits us to say crime is up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,140 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Amerika wrote: »
    Do you seriously think the biased media would admit to their bias?

    But I give CNN a little bit of credit for their attempt at admitting the truth. Although that was before they became the Clinton News Network for this election.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2016/06/17/cnns-zucker-admits-network-liberal/


    Taken out of context... just as I expected you to do.
    Haha. Breitbart. Funny man.

    Anyway, yesterday you tried to link to some studies to show a 'media bias'. One of them was 12 years old. It is updated annually. Here is their conclusion from the latest version, and an image of where the found the main outlets to stand.

    Figure A is where that media outlet's slant is seen to lie.
    Figure B is where that media outlet's slant is seen to lie on news articles (black dots) and opinion articles (circles with a line through).
    Figure C shows how each outlet views each party is portrayed by each outlet - and yes that is correct, nearly all view both parties negatively.
    F1.large.jpg

    And as for the study - http://poq.oxfordjournals.org/content/80/S1/250.full
    It may be tempting to cheer the relative lack of overt partisanship in the descriptive political reporting of most major American news outlets. Our analysis, however, also reveals some hurdles for robust political discourse. First, given the ideological distance between Democrats and Republicans—by some measures the largest of the modern political era—balanced coverage in the point/counterpoint paradigm (D’Alessio and Allen 2000) may not optimally inform voters about the issues. One might reasonably expect the facts to favor one party over the other—at least on some of the issues—and thus largely nonpartisan reporting may not accurately reflect the substantive differences between the political parties. (Coverage of political scandals is a notable exception to this convention of nonpartisanship; for example, scandals involving Democrats unsurprisingly portray Democrats more harshly than Republicans.) Second, for both Democrats and Republicans, we find that news outlets are almost universally critical rather than supportive, a practice some have called “gotcha journalism.” For example, as many political commentators have observed, the failures of the Affordable Care Act received far more media attention than its successes. This tendency to print predominantly critical news may stem from publishers’ desires to appear nonpartisan by avoiding apparent advocacy, or from readers’ appetites for negative coverage, or from a combination of the two. Regardless of the rationale, predominantly critical coverage likely masks relevant facts and may hinder readers from developing informed opinions. Finally, though the relative uniformity we observe across news outlets provides readers with a common base of knowledge, it also limits the diversity of available perspectives.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Mr Freeze wrote: »
    The Trump campaign has made all sorts of accusations over the past year, a lot of them not true and even when called out on them, stand their ground and never apologise or correct anything.

    So far, its done them no harm, the Trump supporters are lapping it up.

    No harm? They're on course to lose the election in a landslide.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    No harm? They're on course to lose the election in a landslide.

    No harm to a point, I should have added.

    He built up his support on it, now it does look like its all starting to sour.

    There are still those that will back him 100% and say the election was rigged if he loses.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Isn’t the Oxford Journals based in the UK? I’m initially suspect of a UK organization rating US media in regards to media bias. But I’ll reserve judgement until I learn more about the organization as ad hominem attacks, which seem to be the basis of so many arguments for some here, are disingenuous in nature.

    Also from the Oxford Journals:
    We measure media bias by estimating ideological scores for several major media outlets. To compute this, we count the times that a particular media outlet cites various think tanks and policy groups, and then compare this with the times that members of Congress cite the same groups. Our results show a strong liberal bias: all of the news outlets we examine, except Fox News' Special Report and the Washington Times, received scores to the left of the average member of Congress. Consistent with claims made by conservative critics, CBS Evening News and the New York Times received scores far to the left of center. The most centrist media outlets were PBS NewsHour, CNN's Newsnight, and ABC's Good Morning America; among print outlets, USA Today was closest to the center. All of our findings refer strictly to news content; that is, we exclude editorials, letters, and the like.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    I don't think i am overstating it at all. Hillary was pushed forward as a chosen candidate by the overseeing body who were supposed to be impartial.

    Bernie sought the Democratic Party candidacy.

    Bernie Sanders is an Independent. Bernie was not a member of the Democratic Party.

    He decided to run and then joined the Democratic Party.

    I get that the two party system is awful but it doesnt make sense that he thought he would get impartiality from the party he was joining just to take the presidency from.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,972 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    No harm? They're on course to lose the election in a landslide.

    Not according to trump he isn't. I've watched it unfold and to be perfectly honest it's just baffling. I mean I'd love to know who is running his campaign outside of him obviously. It's a mess. And he is just so thin skinned it's not even funny.

    Also for him to not endorse the speaker of the House of Representatives who is a high ranking member of his own party must be a first.

    I personally think that Obama isn't far off when he asked how long can they keep supporting trump. I know Paul Ryan can't really say it but I'm sure he regrets endorsing trump. I mean Donald trump isn't just running for himself in November. The presidential candidate is like a rising tide with other republican candidates.


  • Posts: 0 Zoie Full Widow


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    Bernie sought the Democratic Party candidacy.

    Bernie Sanders is an Independent. Bernie was not a member of the Democratic Party.

    He decided to run and then joined the Democratic Party.

    I get that the two party system is awful but it doesnt make sense that he thought he would get impartiality from the party he was joining just to take the presidency from.

    If the party's rules allowed him as a candidate then so be it.

    I don't think that 'he shouldn't have been eligible therefore cheating' is good here?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    I just find it funny to see pro-Hillary heads talk about how Trump will definitely bomb the crap out of places when there is zero evidence he will do so. He offered his VP picks control over foreign and domestic policy ffs. Trump will enjoy the presidency as the narcissist that he is.

    Trump said he would bomb the families of suspected terrorists.

    And saying he's offered his VP "control"(?) over foreign and domestic policy is just evidence of his lunacy.

    So Pence is going to be the president?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Amerika wrote: »
    Isn’t the Oxford Journals based in the UK? I’m initially suspect of a UK organization rating US media in regards to media bias. But I’ll reserve judgement until I learn more about the organization as ad hominem attacks, which seem to be the basis of so many arguments for some here, are disingenuous in nature.
    So you linked to Breitbart as some kind of 'evidence' of media bias, but are suspicious as to the validity of Oxford Journals? Just to clarify, that is that you are saying?

    Either way, it should come as some relief to you that the three guys who conducted it teach at the University of Michigan, the University of Washington, and Stanford. So that angle isn't of any use to you.
    Also from the Oxford Journals:
    On top of the fact that your article is seriously dated, a little on the author of that article - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Groseclose
    Robert Barro, a Harvard University Economics professor, asserts, “The bottom line from the Groseclose-Milyo study is that the political slant of most of the mainstream media is far to the left of the typical member of Congress. Thus, if the political opinions of viewers, listeners, and readers are similar to those of their elected representatives, the political leanings of most of the media are far to the left of those of most of their customers.”[5] The book suggests that all media outlets in the United States are left-leaning.[6] He adds that conservative media outlets like Fox News and the Drudge Report are only moderately conservative.[6] Furthermore, he goes on to argue that the left-wing media bias influences American voters to lean left.[6] If it were not for media bias, he hypothesizes that the US would think and vote like a solid red state, such as Texas or Kentucky. He also hypothesizes that Republican candidate John McCain would have won the 2008 United States presidential election.[6]


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 669 ✭✭✭whatstherush


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    Trump said he would bomb the families of suspected terrorists.

    And saying he's offered his VP "control"(?) over foreign and domestic policy is just evidence of his lunacy.

    So Pence is going to be the president?

    Second hand info here, so make of it what you will, but according to Joe scarborough, 3 Times trump asked Foreign policy expert who was giving him briefing, about use of Nuclear weapons, specifically "if we have them why can't we use them"

    https://twitter.com/Morning_Joe/status/760790261370753025


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭Suryavarman


    Second hand info here, so make of it what you will, but according to Joe scarborough, 3 Times trump asked Foreign policy expert who was giving him briefing, about use of Nuclear weapons, specifically "if we have them why can't we use them"

    https://twitter.com/Morning_Joe/status/760790261370753025

    If Trump is willing to use nuclear weapons then God only knows what Hillary Clinton would be willing to do. This is the clearest indication yet that Trump must win in November.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Itssoeasy wrote: »


    Lads maybe I'm having a dumb moment but how exactly can Obama or Clinton be blamed for a death in 2004 when neither were in a position of power until 2008. Now unless I've misread what she Said.

    Obama - no, Clinton yes given she voted for the Ira war.
    Billy86 wrote: »
    Funny how easy it is to just sling baseless nonsense back and forward when you don't have to focus on any of the details, isn't it? :)
    Everyone knows Fox is biased, but there is hard evidence of the Democrats censoring what their media outlets can publish/broadcast.
    People have said for many years that Fox news is biased, but a lot were silent on the bias in the other direction.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,666 ✭✭✭ECO_Mental


    Second hand info here, so make of it what you will, but according to Joe scarborough, 3 Times trump asked Foreign policy expert who was giving him briefing, about use of Nuclear weapons, specifically "if we have them why can't we use them"

    https://twitter.com/Morning_Joe/status/760790261370753025

    All I have to say is just WOW:eek: that is scary stuff!

    I have been treating this as a bit of a comedy show up until now:o but Trump asking three times why we dont use nuclear weapons. This S**t just got real.....

    6.1kWp south facing, South of Cork City



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Second hand info here, so make of it what you will, but according to Joe scarborough, 3 Times trump asked Foreign policy expert who was giving him briefing, about use of Nuclear weapons, specifically "if we have them why can't we use them"

    https://twitter.com/Morning_Joe/status/760790261370753025

    Those revelations that MSNBC was the broadcaster of the Democrats were not wrong.

    A presenter with no evidence made a claim about Trump asking about using nuclear bombs, and asking three times.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    ECO_Mental wrote: »
    All I have to say is just WOW:eek: that is scary stuff!

    I have been treating this as a bit of a comedy show up until now:o but Trump asking three times why we dont use nuclear weapons. This S**t just got real.....


    Don't worry, Hillary only talked about nuking Iran when she is president back in 2008, and about having a war with Iran again last year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    RobertKK wrote: »
    A presenter with no evidence made a claim about Trump asking about using nuclear bombs, and asking three times.

    Maybe this story would be more credible if many many of the presenters friends rang and told him this, lots of people are saying this, not just the presenter.

    Thats how Trump puts out all his false stories aint it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK





    At least Hillary is honest...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Everyone knows Fox is biased, but there is hard evidence of the Democrats censoring what their media outlets can publish/broadcast.
    People have said for many years that Fox news is biased, but a lot were silent on the bias in the other direction.
    Because the vast majority are not biased, and those that are most people know of - MSNBC in parts, and DailyKOS absolutely so. There's a reason why there don't seem to be any Dailykos links in this whole 9,250 post thread. Meanwhile however, Trump fans seem to be under the impression that Breitbart and the likes are reputable enough to use as news sources, and that anything to the left FOX is a 'left wing agenda' driven conspiracy. And when someone takes that stance, they're not going to be taken seriously.

    The truth of the matter is outside of a few outliers like the ones above, the media are quite neutral. Some lean slightly left, some lean slightly right (see the graphs I posted a few hours ago), but this 'grand left wing conspiracy' carry on is a paranoid farce.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Don't worry, Hillary only talked about nuking Iran when she is president back in 2008, and about having a war with Iran again last year.

    "BUT BUT BUT... BUT HILLARY!!"


    Trump fans keep trying to use 'warmongering' against Hillary, but the fact is due to his comments it is every bit as hypocritical as if Hillary fans were going on non-stop, on a daily basis, about those illegal email solicitations Trump sent to international politicians.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    From an interview back in April between Donald Trump and Chris Matthews…
    TRUMP: Look, nuclear should be off the table. But would there be a time when it could be used, possibly, possibly?

    MATTHEWS: OK. The trouble is, when you said that, the whole world heard it. David Cameron in Britain heard it. The Japanese, where we bombed them in ’45, heard it. They’re hearing a guy running for president of the United States talking of maybe using nuclear weapons. Nobody wants to hear that about an American president.

    TRUMP: Then why are we making them? Why do we make them? We had (inaudible).

    That was back in April, “several months ago,” which is the same timeframe Joe Scarborough is claiming. Seems to me to be pretty much the same wording that Scarborough claims. In that interview Trump emphasized that he would be “very, very slow and hesitant to pull that trigger.” Seems like legitimate points of discussion to me from someone who might be our future leader. But the media fails to mention any of this now in their daily Two Minutes Of (Trump) Hate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Theresa May talked about using nuclear weapons. She basically said they are not a deterrent if you say you would never use them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Billy86 wrote: »

    "BUT BUT BUT... BUT HILLARY!!"


    Trump fans keep trying to use 'warmongering' against Hillary, but the fact is due to his comments it is every bit as hypocritical as if Hillary fans were going on non-stop, on a daily basis, about those illegal email solicitations Trump sent to international politicians.

    Yet Hillary fans have done nothing to show she is not a warmonger and it is But Trump...


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,599 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Yet Hillary fans have done nothing to show she is not a warmonger and it is But Trump...

    I'd wager there are very few fans of hers here. They just think she's a lesser evil than her opponent.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Yet Hillary fans have done nothing to show she is not a warmonger and it is But Trump...

    Some pages back I asked you to compare her record to any other secretary of state.

    I've also brought up a list of domestic policies that people are concerned about where trump and clinton share opposite views.

    But you seem fixated on the warmonger thing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Yet Hillary fans have done nothing to show she is not a warmonger and it is But Trump...
    And that is why you don't see many Clinton fans claiming she is anti war. Trump fans on the other hand are more than happy to pretend he has no interest in "bombing the sh*t" out of places.

    Again, it's that whole reality thing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    If Hillary werent so cravenly corrupt and completely lacking in any integrity, then maybe she would be miles ahead of the thin-skinned narcissist.

    She is miles ahead:

    c6huajz6hlbcpm7puxl9.jpg


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    Some pages back I asked you to compare her record to any other secretary of state.

    I've also brought up a list of domestic policies that people are concerned about where trump and clinton share opposite views.

    But you seem fixated on the warmonger thing.


    Domestic policy is less likely to kill hundreds of thousands of people as foreign policy is.

    US Foreign policy is affecting Europe directly due to a war that people like Clinton voted for and a war she convinced Obama to start. It all has led to a migrant crisis, terrorism in Europe, turning Europe more right wing which affect our domestic policy on this continent, could be argued it contributed to Brexit.

    What about the Democrat's president's Treasury secretary who went against what the IMF argued for which was some of the bondholders would be burned, but US domestic policy has all us Irish paying off all the bondholders.

    Thing is a Democrat president has not made things better, it has made things worse in Europe.


This discussion has been closed.
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