Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

DonegalTech · 31-07-2016 09:52PM

Giacomo McGubbin wrote: »

As you know I don't beat about the bush. The reason why you are rapidly loosing support on here, is that most neutral observers here are being expected by you to take sides in a very sad family feud, join in with demonisation of the mother, and become rabid political shinners all at the same time, and if they don't tick all your boxes and they smell any rats, or ask too many questions, they are put on your ignore list. Most of the locals stayed away from the recent political protest Marches for those very reasons. You're not listening. Ordinary people are sick of politics and everything being politicised, including Mary's disappearance. Meanwhile perfectly good recent leads about where the original tracker dog indicated where to excavate for evidence are being ignored because they are not politically exciting enough. Well balls to that.

Apart from being Interested in what caused the Mother/Daughter relationship breakdown, as the documentary clearly used the word "estranged", I have no bias toward either side. I have no connection to the Ballyshannon area or anybody involved in this case to my knowledge, I was just baffled as to why this case was never solved. I should also state that I am not a member of any Political Party, nor do I vote exclusively for any one or even two parties.

For over 30 years only "one side" had been heard in this case, one side of the Mary Boyle story and NO progress was made following any of that story up. Is it any wonder that people now believe the rumours of Political interference by a local politician via a senior Garda, and other chat of cover up's. This whole case reeks of a cover up, 39 years have passed and NO progress has been made!!

So no harm Giacomo McGubbin, but you seem to ignore the fact that this forum is finally looking at the other side of the story, the alternative side that for years was never given the light of day. Sure people might get frustrated with the Mother's view and actions at times, but ultimately people want the wee girl to be recovered, the killer caught and the case to be closed.

oranbhoy67 · 31-07-2016 11:38PM

Burtman wrote: »

Cheers , I remember reading something about that several years back when I was trawling the net for updates on the case....

I Just rang around there to clarify this story as like yourself I had read about it but had forgotten certain details.

I got a wee bit mixed up,
The cross was put up at the time of the renewed search in the mid 90s of the aforementioned bogland, it was put up at the suggestion of the local priest and was put on the land on which Mary was last seen. on the hill so it would stand out against the horizon

It was removed that night by person(s) unknown, never to be seen again

mikeymouse · 31-07-2016 11:46PM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

Thank you very much I appreciate that

I saw the google street map view which shows Marys Uncle gerry working in a field if thats what you mean?

Google have removed removed him, well sort of:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.5202339,-8.1028179,3a,61.6y,271.65h,88.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svoCKfd7ilbUMg20Hqzlyeg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

oranbhoy67 · 01-08-2016 12:01AM

mikeymouse wrote: »

Google have removed removed him, well sort of:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.5202339,-8.1028179,3a,61.6y,271.65h,88.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svoCKfd7ilbUMg20Hqzlyeg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

wow that's unbelievable they have literally photoshopped a bush right in front of him

can anyone ask google to do that ??

Going Forward · 01-08-2016 12:07AM

DonegalTech wrote: »

Apart from being Interested in what caused the Mother/Daughter relationship breakdown, as the documentary clearly used the word "estranged", I have no bias toward either side. I have no connection to the Ballyshannon area or anybody involved in this case to my knowledge, I was just baffled as to why this case was never solved. I should also state that I am not a member of any Political Party, nor do I vote exclusively for any one or even two parties.

For over 30 years only "one side" had been heard in this case, one side of the Mary Boyle story and NO progress was made following any of that story up. Is it any wonder that people now believe the rumours of Political interference by a local politician via a senior Garda, and other chat of cover up's. This whole case reeks of a cover up, 39 years have passed and NO progress has been made!!

So no harm Giacomo McGubbin, but you seem to ignore the fact that this forum is finally looking at the other side of the story, the alternative side that for years was never given the light of day. Sure people might get frustrated with the Mother's view and actions at times, but ultimately people want the wee girl to be recovered, the killer caught and the case to be closed.

I am sad to say that the secret is probably going to go with the perpetrator to the grave.

Unless an invigorated investigation treating everyone who was at the scene and who gave witness statements at the time are treated as suspects and questioned as suspects instead of disconnected onlookers.

This was recommended earlier by another poster, it is the only thing left to do and it was never done.

That may well have been "the mistake" that gardai cannot bring themselves to articulate, even at this remove.

There is a cover up after all.

Has the giver of recent information about the red VW Beetle been assisting gardai with their enquiries???

Considering he has claimed that gardai altered his statements, TWICE, has GSOC, displaying some initiative, initiated an investigation into his claims?

Has Anne's solicitors, or are they expecting someone else to do it, whilst issuing pointless press releases about submitting a complaint about something relatively minor, about not being told about something?

Where's the press release about their submitting a complaint to GSOC about their concerns about the gardai bending witness statements in Mary's disappearance?

GSOC will either say, sorry can't look at it, the guy may be lying or yes, there was a red VW, news of which the gardai never made public.

They're a public body, funded by the exchequer, their response regarding how they intend to handle any complaint received is of public concern.

So what's their response??????

I'll bet no one has even raised it with them.

They certainly haven't issued a press release saying they have, not like the complaint they did submit a few weeks ago.

oranbhoy67 · 01-08-2016 12:08AM

they even photoshopped his dog out !!

Technique · 01-08-2016 12:12AM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

wow that's unbelievable they have literally photoshopped a bush right in front of him

can anyone ask google to do that ??

You can request Google to remove yourself or your house from Streetview.

Burtman · 01-08-2016 12:28AM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

I Just rang around there to clarify this story as like yourself I had read about it but had forgotten certain details.

I got a wee bit mixed up,
The cross was put up at the time of the renewed search in the mid 90s of the aforementioned bogland, it was put up at the suggestion of the local priest and was put on the land on which Mary was last seen. on the hill so it would stand out against the horizon

It was removed that night by person(s) unknown, never to be seen again

wow so soon..thats disturbing to say the least!

Going Forward · 01-08-2016 01:16AM

Burtman wrote: »

wow so soon..thats disturbing to say the least!

IT'S happened in a completely separate case too.

You'd wonder who does it and why.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0913/108008-sinnottf/

Kenny Logins · 01-08-2016 10:52AM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

they even photoshopped his dog out !!

I don't think it's edited, just removed. When I looked last week I could go right up to the gate, and the last two or so steps showed the 4x4 parked on the other side of the gate and a man in behind the wall to the left. Now those last two steps cannot be taken.
Street View images can be taken months or even years apart and blended together to appear seamless. The ones I can see now are from October 2010 only.

Somebody must have requested the removal of these images alright.

mikeymouse · 01-08-2016 11:07AM

Kenny Logins wrote: »

I don't think it's edited, just removed. When I looked last week I could go right up to the gate, and the last two or so steps showed the 4x4 parked on the other side of the gate and a man in behind the wall to the left. Now those last two steps cannot be taken.
Street View images can be taken months or even years apart and blended together to appear seamless. The ones I can see now are from October 2010 only.

Somebody must have requested the removal of these images alright.

There's a slider on the top left of screen to flit between the different dates.

Kenny Logins · 01-08-2016 11:18AM

mikeymouse wrote: »

There's a slider on the top left of screen to flit between the different dates.

Ah, OK. Thanks I see it now. Wow.

01-08-2016 01:45PM

I see Joe Duffy has commented on the case in a certain online publication that is banned on the Donegal forum.

I can't post links, and I'm not sure if that publication is banned in Conspiracy theories, but anyone who posts regularly in the Donegal forum knows which publication I'm talking about....

Jadaol · 01-08-2016 02:02PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I see Joe Duffy has commented on the case in a certain online publication that is banned on the Donegal forum.

I can't post links, and I'm not sure if that publication is banned in Conspiracy theories, but anyone who posts regularly in the Donegal forum knows which publication I'm talking about....

in essence what does he say about it?

Going Forward · 01-08-2016 02:05PM

Jadaol wrote: »

in essence what does he say about it?

Broadcaster Joe Duffy has slammed claims that there is ‘RTE bias’ on the reporting of missing Mary Boyle.

The Liveline presenter has hit out at suggestions recent that the station is somehow covering up the disappearance of there six year old who vanished outside Ballyshannon in 1977.

Duffy said he has followed the Mary Boyle story closely over the years.

And he said suggestions that there is a cover-up saying “Ireland is not Turkey.”

“I know there is no conspiracy in RTE to cover up anything is this awful case and I doubt very much there is a conspiracy in the Garda and Government,” he said.

The popular broadcaster also said he did not like RTE constantly being referred to as ‘the State broadcaster.”

He referred specifically to the recent You Tube documentary ‘Mary Boyle – The Untold Story’, in which it was claimed that a serving Donegal politician prevented Gardai from investigating the case properly.

He added “I listened to Gemma O’Doherty (the maker of the video) speaking to a local radio station last week which produced little new information but quickly descended into a 20 minute attack on ‘State broadcaster’ RTE for bias in the case. Firstly, to keep referring to RTE as the ‘State broadcaster’ seems to imply that there is a widespread cover up of Mary’s murder. RTE is not the ‘State broadcaster.’ Ireland is not Turkey,” he said.

Duffy also lashed Sinn Fein and their part in “invariably using it as another attack on RTE.’

“Let’s look at all the unsolved murders of children in the last 50 years – in Northern Ireland during the Troubles my research shows that 144 children aged between 16 and under who died violently – including children who died in the same year as Mary.

“And whether Sinn Fein likes it or not, the biggest group of children were killed by so-called ‘republican paramilitaries.’. Most of these killings remain unsolved today,” said Duffy.

Jadaol · 01-08-2016 02:14PM

scrap that just found it. basically nothing
unsolved case like many others who died in the troubles and sinn fein should be more concerned about them

so. in a nutshell the prevailing view amongst our betters, the chattering classes, is this campaign is a sinn fein led thing capitalising on nothing more than a tragedy like so many

thank God, people are voting with their feet "so to speak" joe and your sort of traditional journalism is in rapid decline because of it's irrelevance

most of these media people and politicians and others holding higher up positions in public life all live close to each other i.e. dublin, children attend the same schools, go to the same parties, dine with each other and have drinks with each other and then for journalism's sake post opinion pieces - wall to wall opinion pieces - published in the papers etc
with virtually no investigative journalism - and then wonder why no one is buying their newspaper. When they're annoyed about something it's wall to wall coverage of whatever issue they think important at their dinner parties. When i say coverage, i mean more opinion pieces. End of rant

01-08-2016 02:21PM

Jadaol wrote: »

scrap that just found it. basically nothing
unsolved case like many others who died in the troubles and sinn fein should be more concerned about them

so. in a nutshell the prevailing view amongst our betters, the chattering classes, is this campaign is a sinn fein led thing capitalising on nothing more than a tragedy like so many

thank God, people are voting with their feet "so to speak" joe and your sort of traditional journalism is in rapid decline because of it's irrelevance

most of these media people and politicians and others holding higher up positions in public life all live close to each other i.e. dublin, children attend the same schools, go to the same parties, dine with each other and have drinks with each other and then for journalism's sake post opinion pieces - wall to wall opinion pieces - published in the papers etc
with virtually no investigative journalism - and then wonder why no one is buying their newspaper. When they're annoyed about something it's wall to wall coverage of whatever issue they think important at their dinner parties. When i say coverage, i mean more opinion pieces. End of rant

Exactly.

In essence, he is suggesting that anyone who is concerned that there MAY have been a cover-up is a Sinn Fein supporter, who would be better off being concerned about children who were murdered during the troubles.

It doesn't seem to have occurred to him that:

A: Some of us don't support any particular political party, and
B: We are quite capable of being sickened at the murder of ANY child, whether politically motivated, or not.

Investigative journalist? Pfft!

01-08-2016 04:03PM

I just e-mailed Joe Duffy, listing my reasons for believing this case merits a full investigation.

The response was an automated email, thanking me for my interest, informing me that they are unable to reply to individual e-mails, due to the large volume, and inviting me to give my phone number, in the event that I might like to talk to Joe on the show, and giving direct line numbers to contact the office.

In other words, unless you want to talk to Joe, live, on air (I don't!) - don't expect any response.

Jadaol · 01-08-2016 05:26PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I just e-mailed Joe Duffy, listing my reasons for believing this case merits a full investigation.

The response was an automated email, thanking me for my interest, informing me that they are unable to reply to individual e-mails, due to the large volume, and inviting me to give my phone number, in the event that I might like to talk to Joe on the show, and giving direct line numbers to contact the office.

In other words, unless you want to talk to Joe, live, on air (I don't!) - don't expect any response.

And expect an extensive interview first just to make sure you're semi coherent. Pending what other 'issue' is on you may/may not get on and then when you do expect him to ask the same stupid idiotic questions over and over. If you are lucky enough to be able to speak, you will need to be super quick because he gives an average of about 2.3 seconds before he starts to talk over you asking the same question you've just answered

01-08-2016 05:49PM

Jadaol wrote: »

And expect an extensive interview first just to make sure you're semi coherent. Pending what other 'issue' is on you may/may not get on and then when you do expect him to ask the same stupid idiotic questions over and over. If you are lucky enough to be able to speak, you will need to be super quick because he gives an average of about 2.3 seconds before he starts to talk over you asking the same question you've just answered

I didn't want to talk to him, anyway.

Even if I did, I wouldn't dream of arranging to do so without the approval of the family.

I just felt it was important for someone to let him know that his dismissive attitude was unimpressive, to say the least.

The general public mostly like to see justice being done.
It doesn't matter whether a particular journalist, or anyone else, believes there was a cover-up.

People want to see an investigation that uncovers the truth, whatever it may be, and whether Joe Duffy, or any other journalist, disagrees with Gemma O Doherty's views, or disapproves of Sinn Fein, is completely irrelevant.

The case deserves further investigation on its own merits, imo.

Going Forward · 01-08-2016 06:36PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I just e-mailed Joe Duffy, listing my reasons for believing this case merits a full investigation.

The response was an automated email, thanking me for my interest, informing me that they are unable to reply to individual e-mails, due to the large volume, and inviting me to give my phone number, in the event that I might like to talk to Joe on the show, and giving direct line numbers to contact the office.

In other words, unless you want to talk to Joe, live, on air (I don't!) - don't expect any response.

What did you expect, it's a phone in show!

Someone phones in and says they'd like something done about the case, he says so does he.

Conversation ends.

They can't make unfounded allegations on air or name names.

And he's not wrong about OD's constant reference to RTE as the state broadcaster.

Still no answer from anyone as to why the doc hasn't been seen on TV3 though.

Has OD said anything about them?

Is it too much of a legal minefield as it is or are they implicit in the cover up too?

oranbhoy67 · 01-08-2016 06:50PM

Going Forward wrote: »

What did you expect, it's a phone in show!

Someone phones in and says they'd like something done about the case, he says so does he.

Conversation ends.

They can't make unfounded allegations on air or name names.

And he's not wrong about OD's constant reference to RTE as the state broadcaster.

Still no answer from anyone as to why the doc hasn't been seen on TV3 though.

Has OD said anything about them?

Is it too much of a legal minefield as it is or are they implicit in the cover up too?

He certainly has a point on Gemma but thats about it,
His whataboutery on Sinn Fein and kids murdered that year is utterly disgusting IMO .. I also am pretty sure his "facts" on children killed by which faction during the troubles is wrong as well but would need to double check that.
This is not about Sinn Fein
This Is not about Gemma O Doherty
This is about a 6 yr old girl still lying undiscovered somewhere buried like an animal in a bog whilst certain people cover it up ( not talking about politicians or guards here)

Disgusting comments, Do i believe RTE are refusing to cover this story thoroughly because of a conspiracy - No

I believe they aren't touching it because of their distaste for the afore-mentioned Gemma , at the end of the day no journalist owns this story.

there's enough points made on this thread alone to have any investigative Journalist worth his salt up here investigating, what have we had so far??

a newspaper interview with a guy who took 24 years to supposedly correct his original gardai statement to include a red VW beetle that no one else that day saw

and a decent report on Newstalk with some great information from the local postman of the time.

Could Joe Duffy not admit that there is at the moment great public interest in this case as shown by the 150k views on the documentary on youtube ??
and could he answer why then he thinks RTE are doing nothing about it ??

oranbhoy67 · 01-08-2016 06:53PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't want to talk to him, anyway.

Even if I did, I wouldn't dream of arranging to do so without the approval of the family.

I just felt it was important for someone to let him know that his dismissive attitude was unimpressive, to say the least.

The general public mostly like to see justice being done.
It doesn't matter whether a particular journalist, or anyone else, believes there was a cover-up.

People want to see an investigation that uncovers the truth, whatever it may be, and whether Joe Duffy, or any other journalist, disagrees with Gemma O Doherty's views, or disapproves of Sinn Fein, is completely irrelevant.

The case deserves further investigation on its own merits, imo.

if anyone can get into a position to discuss this case on any platform please do so , even if their views on what we are doing would be negative we would rather keep this in the spotlight so no approval needed , all i would ask is no naming of suspects

01-08-2016 06:57PM

Going Forward wrote: »

What did you expect, it's a phone in show!

Someone phones in and says they'd like something done about the case, he says so does he.

Conversation ends.

They can't make unfounded allegations on air or name names.

And he's not wrong about OD's constant reference to RTE as the state broadcaster.

Still no answer from anyone as to why the doc hasn't been seen on TV3 though.

Has OD said anything about them?

Is it too much of a legal minefield as it is or are they implicit in the cover up too?

I know it's a phone in show.

I also know Joe Duffys interview was dismissive of this case, according to his comments, because he doesn't believe there was a cover-up (he's entitled to his opinion there) and because he apparently disapproves of the number of children who were killed in "the troubles", so decided to take a swipe at Sinn Fein, as a justification to utterly dismiss the case.

I'm not calling for a liveline "debate" about Mary Boyle. I just wanted to let Joe Duffy know that just because he works for RTE doesn't mean that everyone accepts every word that comes out of his mouth, and that this case deserves investigation because of the unanswered questions that remain. It doesn't matter who believes there was a cover-up, or which politician decides to ask questions, the case deserves investigation on its own merits, whether or not Joe Duffy dislikes a particular journalist, or politician.

If he chooses to take those questions to someone in RTE - so much the better. Publicity is good, it keeps the pressure on. If enough pressure is applied, someone might just crack...

I'm not holding my breath, though.

oranbhoy67 · 01-08-2016 07:18PM

is it really a shock that a Man who is paid €400+k a year comes out and defends his employers

also if RTE isnt the state broadcaster how come all of us with TVs are forced to pay for it ?

I wonder do they have a TV licence system in Turkey

tayto lover · 01-08-2016 07:33PM

I believe that every self-respecting person in the country would like the truth to come out on this little child's disappearance.
The story should not be politicised. Nobody owns the story. This could have been the child, sister or niece of any of us. The child and her family deserve justice.

Is it possible for the family take a civil action against the alleged perpetrator and thus force the case into the open. Then all the evidence, especially the evidence that is not in the public domain, could be presented in court? Just wondering.

oranbhoy67 · 01-08-2016 08:05PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I believe that every self-respecting person in the country would like the truth to come out on this little child's disappearance.
The story should not be politicised. Nobody owns the story. This could have been the child, sister or niece of any of us. The child and her family deserve justice.

Is it possible for the family take a civil action against the alleged perpetrator and thus force the case into the open. Then all the evidence, especially the evidence that is not in the public domain, could be presented in court? Just wondering.

the first Paragraph of your post I am 100% with you there , very well put

The second paragraph is interesting and something I haven't thought of, I dont know if its happened in Ireland before, Its something ill ask about and maybe something the legal-heads on here might know the answer to.

Jadaol · 01-08-2016 08:25PM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

the first Paragraph of your post I am 100% with you there , very well put

The second paragraph is interesting and something I haven't thought of, I dont know if its happened in Ireland before, Its something ill ask about and maybe something the legal-heads on here might know the answer to.

If it's viable it could be a great idea to give this story some momentum. Nice one tayto lover. Don't know if it could work but a great suggestion

tayto lover · 01-08-2016 08:27PM

Jadaol wrote: »

If it's viable it could be a great idea to give this story some momentum. Nice one tayto lover. Don't know if it could work but a great suggestion

Hopefully someone with good legal knowledge will let us know.

Going Forward · 01-08-2016 08:41PM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

the first Paragraph of your post I am 100% with you there , very well put

The second paragraph is interesting and something I haven't thought of, I dont know if its happened in Ireland before, Its something ill ask about and maybe something the legal-heads on here might know the answer to.

Next someone will suggest a citizens arrest.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen's_arrest#Legal_and_political_aspect

Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

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