Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

Stoner · 17-07-2016 09:54PM

coniosumadre wrote:

Hahaha... Good man. The arrogance is back in the camp again after a Kildare at home victory. Getting a bit too far ahead of yourself

Going on last year , being Dublin's first test is better than their second or third

Audioslaven · 17-07-2016 10:04PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Only if the Ulster loser is drawn against and beats Cork

Mayo avoid Dublin if they draw and beat Westmeath and Donegal beat Cork.

If we draw Donegal then we play Dublin if Westmeath beat Cork.

If we beat Donegal and Cork beat Westmeath its open draw to see who plays Dublin.

The reason, provincial champs cannot meet the team they beat in the final.

I would prefer the dubs in the 1/4 as this should give us the best chance to beat them. Yesterday performance for me was better again from the Fermanagh game and I hope the next game brings them on again. We should be well oiled for the dubs then and you never know once you hit CP.

cocoman · 17-07-2016 10:15PM

martyos121 wrote: »

I reckon Croker if it's Donegal, and god knows where if it's Westmeath but not Croker. Could be Limerick!

Breffini Park maybe.

Ascii · 17-07-2016 10:41PM

Will review the Mayo game later...
but just watching the Sunday game and something came to mind when I seen the presentation to Sean Kavanagh and then Des says that Tyrone refused to give a media interview to RTE/Sunday Game (as we know it's well documented at this stage).

If they win the all Ireland, will there be no winners hotel for Marty and the usual interviews and presentation of MOTM ?????

Shower of knobs.

Ascii · 17-07-2016 10:42PM

Keith Higgins team captain ?? Marty you tool

Bunny Colvin · 17-07-2016 11:21PM

I thought Tomas O Se was a little harsh on McLoughlin and the sweeping role. He has done well and is still settling in it. Showing the clip where he dropped the ball on a solo run was a misrepresentation, he had a good game for me. O'Se also tried to make out he was a top forward in the country and shouldn't be moved from there but most would agree that he hasn't been at his best for a season or two, so that's not an issue. He came into the Mayo setup as a half back, so his argument that 'he's not a natural defender' doesn't hold up either.

We also need a sweeper in Croker, it doesn't matter if we never bothered with one before. We've been leaking soft goals for too long now and it's important that the system is put into place before we play a good team.

Ascii · 17-07-2016 11:39PM

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

I thought Tomas O Se was a little harsh on McLoughlin and the sweeping role. He has done well and is still settling in it. Showing the clip where he dropped the ball on a solo run was a misrepresentation, he had a good game for me. O'Se also tried to make out he was a top forward in the country and shouldn't be moved from there but most would agree that he hasn't been at his best for a season or two, so that's not an issue. He came into the Mayo setup as a half back, so his argument that 'he's not a natural defender' doesn't hold up either.

We also need a sweeper in Croker, it doesn't matter if we never bothered with one before. We've been leaking soft goals for too long now and it's important that the system is put into place before we play a good team.

Don't like McLoughlin in the sweeper role, I think we miss him more in the forwards but credit where credit is due he covered serious ground yesterday and his ball distribution was excellent, aside from the one time they showed on the Sunday game when he carried the ball into the tackle and was turned over.

Awful surprised they only slightly referenced how poor were at midfield and did not show the any one of up to 20 examples where SOS was cleaned and Vaughan who had done so well last week was dire this week. His passing and movement of the ball was the stuff of a bad junior B team. What made me mad was we persisted on pumping high balls down on top of them even though Kildare were making hay. Clarke never varied the strategy at all. Other teams will be watching this and adapting their strategy. We Really are stuck for midfielders. Depending on the draw, I think it's time for big barry to get a start. Definitely think Vaughan or SOS would have been substituted for Barry only for the black card to boyler changed things slightly. Is Parsons out for long does anyone know?

Also worth noting when Coen came on he added absolutely nothing to the game. He was totally at sea. Really like him as a player, but in the last two game he has been so poor. Credit to Durcan, he took last weeks bad performance and came out this week looking like a different player...not the same can be said for Coen.

Credit to Freezer and Doherty, three lovely points from play when the came on and staking a claim for a starting berth next week. For me is there is no Parsons next game AOS has to go back to midfield and Doherty starts in the forwards. Vaughan to drop to the bench.

seligehgit · 17-07-2016 11:48PM

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

I thought Tomas O Se was a little harsh on McLoughlin and the sweeping role. He has done well and is still settling in it. Showing the clip where he dropped the ball on a solo run was a misrepresentation, he had a good game for me. O'Se also tried to make out he was a top forward in the country and shouldn't be moved from there but most would agree that he hasn't been at his best for a season or two, so that's not an issue. He came into the Mayo setup as a half back, so his argument that 'he's not a natural defender' doesn't hold up either.

We also need a sweeper in Croker, it doesn't matter if we never bothered with one before. We've been leaking soft goals for too long now and it's important that the system is put into place before we play a good team.

TBH I am tending to agree with Tomas O Se,we are losing more from playing Kevin Mc in the sweeping role than we are accruing in terms of benefit.It is absolutely true that he started out with the under 21s as a half back and has been out of sorts by his very high standards in recent years.But he is always good for a score and offers that bit of creativity,imagination and nous to open up defences.

Keith Higgins would be more suited to the role,if we are roadtesting a sweeper system for the later stages of the championship we are failing.We are far too open down the middle and conceding too big of scores against so called second tier teams.Cian O Sullivan has the role perfected to a fine art and it's no secret as to how it should function correctly...he is a master at sensing danger and appropriate positioning to cover.

seligehgit · 17-07-2016 11:59PM

Ascii wrote: »

Don't like McLoughlin in the sweeper role, I think we miss him more in the forwards but credit where credit is due he covered serious ground yesterday and his ball distribution was excellent, aside from the one time they showed on the Sunday game when he carried the ball into the tackle and was turned over.

Awful surprised they only slightly referenced how poor were at midfield and did not show the any one of up to 20 examples where SOS was cleaned and Vaughan who had done so well last week was dire this week. His passing and movement of the ball was the stuff of a bad junior B team. What made me mad was we persisted on pumping high balls down on top of them even though Kildare were making hay. Clarke never varied the strategy at all. Other teams will be watching this and adapting their strategy. We Really are stuck for midfielders. Depending on the draw, I think it's time for big barry to get a start. Definitely think Vaughan or SOS would have been substituted for Barry only for the black card to boyler changed things slightly. Is Parsons out for long does anyone know?

Also worth noting when Coen came on he added absolutely nothing to the game. He was totally at sea. Really like him as a player, but in the last two game he has been so poor. Credit to Durcan, he took last weeks bad performance and came out this week looking like a different player...not the same can be said for Coen.

Credit to Freezer and Doherty, three lovely points from play when the came on and staking a claim for a starting berth next week. For me is there is no Parsons next game AOS has to go back to midfield and Doherty starts in the forwards. Vaughan to drop to the bench.

That game was crying out for Barry Moran to brought on long before Colm Boyle received the black card.

I thought Patrick Durkan did ok,improved on last week.IMO Aidan should start in the middle of the park if Tom Parsons is not fit.We really need Tom back asap.Barry Moran must be pushing hard for a starting spot.We were cleaned out in the middle of the park,very worrying.

Tad harsh on young Stephen Coen me thinks,he'll come on with more game time.

Yes Alan Freeman and Jason Doherty got a few nice scores but the game was won,totally different to when the game is in melting pot.I'd consider starting Jason Doherty.

PARlance · 18-07-2016 12:01AM

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

I thought Tomas O Se was a little harsh on McLoughlin and the sweeping role. He has done well and is still settling in it. Showing the clip where he dropped the ball on a solo run was a misrepresentation, he had a good game for me. O'Se also tried to make out he was a top forward in the country and shouldn't be moved from there but most would agree that he hasn't been at his best for a season or two, so that's not an issue. He came into the Mayo setup as a half back, so his argument that 'he's not a natural defender' doesn't hold up either.

We also need a sweeper in Croker, it doesn't matter if we never bothered with one before. We've been leaking soft goals for too long now and it's important that the system is put into place before we play a good team.

I thought he was more or less spot on. Positionally, McLoughlin isn't cute enough as O'Se highlighted. I don't think you learn that (quickly or easily), you either know where to be or what space to move into. I wouldn't class him as a natural defender and I think you need someone who is, in that role. I think that's what he was getting at and in fairness to him he knows we have to do something, he suggested ditching the sweeping role and just falling back into defence like most others.

While the lost ball might have been a misrepresentation, it happened, and if that happens in CP against a good team then there's a goal chance a coming. I wouldn't put the blame on McLoughlin though, he looks like he's carrying out orders. Those orders seem to be to play some kind of counter attacking sweeper role... which makes no sense for me at all, if you play a sweeper, he sweeps. I've been on a downer of late and I put it down to seeing us play McLoughlin in that role, with that freedom. We'll get crucified by good teams using that.

It's an easy enough position to look good in, a few poor balls mopped up and all seems great. I hope it's something that can be improved upon but I don't think that comes easy. You can guarantee that if O'Se is highlighting it as a weakness, then opponents down the line will see it as one too.

On a positive note, there are signs of encouragement. DO'C is proving game in, game out to be one of the best footballers around. Andy Moran provided a much needed focal point, he starts for me from here on. Cillian and Regan should benefit from each game. Being able to call upon Dillion, Doherty and Freeman gives options. Once we're back to a full squad you would hope issues in midfield and the full back line will be gone.

Bunny Colvin · 18-07-2016 12:02AM

Ascii wrote: »

Don't like McLoughlin in the sweeper role, I think we miss him more in the forwards but credit where credit is due he covered serious ground yesterday and his ball distribution was excellent, aside from the one time they showed on the Sunday game when he carried the ball into the tackle and was turned over.

Awful surprised they only slightly referenced how poor were at midfield and did not show the any one of up to 20 examples where SOS was cleaned and Vaughan who had done so well last week was dire this week. His passing and movement of the ball was the stuff of a bad junior B team. What made me mad was we persisted on pumping high balls down on top of them even though Kildare were making hay. Clarke never varied the strategy at all. Other teams will be watching this and adapting their strategy. We Really are stuck for midfielders. Depending on the draw, I think it's time for big barry to get a start. Definitely think Vaughan or SOS would have been substituted for Barry only for the black card to boyler changed things slightly. Is Parsons out for long does anyone know?

Also worth noting when Coen came on he added absolutely nothing to the game. He was totally at sea. Really like him as a player, but in the last two game he has been so poor. Credit to Durcan, he took last weeks bad performance and came out this week looking like a different player...not the same can be said for Coen.

Credit to Freezer and Doherty, three lovely points from play when the came on and staking a claim for a starting berth next week. For me is there is no Parsons next game AOS has to go back to midfield and Doherty starts in the forwards. Vaughan to drop to the bench.

Midfield was poor alright, especially in the second half. Parson's has a good chance of being involved in two weeks time, Barrett isn't too far away either apparently. Having them back would be a boost, two areas where we're short at the minute.

Durcan did much better in fairness. Vaughan isn't an inter county midfielder, he still has a role to play but at the moment it's probably coming off the bench to fill in or to give us a bit of drive.

Andy needs to start from here on out, he's still has the class. Regan's confidence will have been given a lift. Boyle, AOS, McLoughlin, Higgins are all playing well, Diarmuid O Connor is flying it. If the likes of Cillian can up it at the same time and our defence can continue to stop leaking goals, we'll be a tough team to beat. Still a lot of questions to be answered though.

km79 · 18-07-2016 12:16AM

Both Dessie Dolan and Aaron Kernan stating what is blindingly obvious
Switch Higgins and mcloughlin . Let Keith be the defensive sweeper and Kevin the roving half forward. I can't believe it's still going on and it will cost us.
Just to add to that I really like Dessie on it.He is a very good analayst with no obvious agendas and doesn't go for silly soundbites. He seems like a sound auld skin

Bunny Colvin · 18-07-2016 12:25AM

seligehgit wrote: »

TBH I am tending to agree with Tomas O Se,we are losing more from playing Kevin Mc in the sweeping role than we are accruing in terms of benefit.It is absolutely true that he started out with the under 21s as a half back and has been out of sorts by his very high standards in recent years.But he is always good for a score and offers that bit of creativity,imagination and nous to open up defences.

Keith Higgins would be more suited to the role,if we are roadtesting a sweeper system for the later stages of the championship we are failing.We are far too open down the middle and conceding too big of scores against so called second tier teams.Cian O Sullivan has the role perfected to a fine art and it's no secret as to how it should function correctly...he is a master at sensing danger and appropriate positioning to cover.

I think McLoughlin suffered a little with confidence, clear to see in his free taking. I don't think he was the influence he was last season or the season before. I rate him highly as a player but his main strength for us has been winning breaking ball and accurate passing. I think he could do well in this new role but it still remains to be seen.

PARlance wrote: »

I thought he was more or less spot on. Positionally, McLoughlin isn't cute enough as O'Se highlighted. I don't think you learn that (quickly or easily), you either know where to be or what space to move into. I wouldn't class him as a natural defender and I think you need someone who is, in that role. I think that's what he was getting at and in fairness to him he knows we have to do something, he suggested ditching the sweeping role and just falling back into defence like most others.

While the lost ball might have been a misrepresentation, it happened, and if that happens in CP against a good team then there's a goal chance a coming. I wouldn't put the blame on McLoughlin though, he looks like he's carrying out orders. Those orders seem to be to play some kind of counter attacking sweeper role... which makes no sense for me at all, if you play a sweeper, he sweeps. I've been on a downer of late and I put it down to seeing us play McLoughlin in that role, with that freedom. We'll get crucified by good teams using that.

It's an easy enough position to look good in, a few poor balls mopped up and all seems great. I hope it's something that can be improved upon but I don't think that comes easy. You can guarantee that if O'Se is highlighting it as a weakness, then opponents down the line will see it as one too.

On a positive note, there are signs of encouragement. DO'C is proving game in, game out to be one of the best footballers around. Andy Moran provided a much needed focal point, he starts for me from here on. Cillian and Regan should benefit from each game. Being able to call upon Dillion, Doherty and Freeman gives options. Once we're back to a full squad you would hope issues in midfield and the full back line will be gone.

I think he's an intelligent player and will make good judgement whether to stay or go. To me he didn't do much wrong yesterday. What O Se highlighted wasn't by any means damning. In some of them clips, McLoughlin was holding position, making sure not to rush out but minding the square. If he rushs out it leaves space inside and he's not the type of player to stand an opponent up. I think it can get better but at least there were no goals conceded yesterday which was something.

Higgin's new role lets him tackle higher up the pitch and gives us cover. There were times when Kildare were trying to build a move but they had AOS, Higgins and Boyle swarming around them, that's always going to force a team to eventually make mistakes

I think the team needed a shake up, McLoughlin and Higgins are two players that can adapt easily.

I still see our half back line and half forward line being very strong. Need improvement everywhere else though.

Fr Tod Umptious · 18-07-2016 12:48AM

km79 wrote: »

Soooooooo which do we want
A
Westmeath (who we will beat don't care what anyone says about complacency etc )
And then Tyrone in quarters . With galway playing in the other quarter final on that side of draw

Or
B
A real tough test against donegal with dublin and then Kerry lying in wait for the winners on that side

I'll take A thanks

I'd take A.

Fair enough there may be merit to getting Dublin early but if they have a frailty or a malaise like in 2012 let someone else expose it and let Mayo reap the benefit.

The last two teams that stopped Dublin's two in a row bids did not win the All Ireland.

And I personally don't think there is a huge gulf between ourselves, Kerry, Tyrone or Donegal.

Take to on paper easier route and see how you get on.

TCDStudent1 · 18-07-2016 01:11AM

PARlance wrote: »

I thought he was more or less spot on. Positionally, McLoughlin isn't cute enough as O'Se highlighted. I don't think you learn that (quickly or easily), you either know where to be or what space to move into. I wouldn't class him as a natural defender and I think you need someone who is, in that role. I think that's what he was getting at and in fairness to him he knows we have to do something, he suggested ditching the sweeping role and just falling back into defence like most others.

While the lost ball might have been a misrepresentation, it happened, and if that happens in CP against a good team then there's a goal chance a coming. I wouldn't put the blame on McLoughlin though, he looks like he's carrying out orders. Those orders seem to be to play some kind of counter attacking sweeper role... which makes no sense for me at all, if you play a sweeper, he sweeps. I've been on a downer of late and I put it down to seeing us play McLoughlin in that role, with that freedom. We'll get crucified by good teams using that.

It's an easy enough position to look good in, a few poor balls mopped up and all seems great. I hope it's something that can be improved upon but I don't think that comes easy. You can guarantee that if O'Se is highlighting it as a weakness, then opponents down the line will see it as one too.

On a positive note, there are signs of encouragement. DO'C is proving game in, game out to be one of the best footballers around. Andy Moran provided a much needed focal point, he starts for me from here on. Cillian and Regan should benefit from each game. Being able to call upon Dillion, Doherty and Freeman gives options. Once we're back to a full squad you would hope issues in midfield and the full back line will be gone.

I'd agree with this. It does seem to be a key tactic to use mcloughlin to carry the ball forward from defence. He is a fantastic ball carrier. And he has started a few good attacks. However I'm not convinced that a player can be a disciplined sweeper and go forward as much as he currently does. I'm also not sure Mayo have a plan in place for when he goes forward, like surely somebody should look to fall back into the sweepers position when he does it. Personally if I was manager, I'd have him wing forward picking up breaks from midfield and carrying the ball from there.

Stoner · 18-07-2016 01:55AM

Oldtree wrote:

Michael Murphy was kicking points from outside the 45 today, something to think about.

He missed the important one at the end though

km79 · 18-07-2016 08:13AM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I'd take A.

Fair enough there may be merit to getting Dublin early but if they have a frailty or a malaise like in 2012 let someone else expose it and let Mayo reap the benefit.

The last two teams that stopped Dublin's two in a row bids did not win the All Ireland.

And I personally don't think there is a huge gulf between ourselves, Kerry, Tyrone or Donegal.

Take to on paper easier route and see how you get on.

Agree now it's cross the fingers time

Ascii · 18-07-2016 08:36AM

I am guessing we get Westmeath away

yop · 18-07-2016 08:37AM

Rossies will beat Clare Id say. Nice draw for them

seligehgit · 18-07-2016 08:37AM

Westmeath

Ascii · 18-07-2016 08:37AM

Mayo versus Westmeath it is

yop · 18-07-2016 08:37AM

So Westmeath. Perferred to have got Donegal tbh.

Ascii · 18-07-2016 08:38AM

Have to be happy with that in fairness. Gives us one more chance to perfect our game

km79 · 18-07-2016 08:39AM

LOVELY !
we have been tested enough . I want games we will win and gain more confidence. This should be another one. and then we are back where we should be

spurscormac · 18-07-2016 08:42AM

km79 wrote: »

Soooooooo which do we want
A
Westmeath (who we will beat don't care what anyone says about complacency etc )
And then Tyrone in quarters . With galway playing in the other quarter final on that side of draw

Or
B
A real tough test against donegal with dublin and then Kerry lying in wait for the winners on that side

I'll take A thanks

Nice draw it has to be said.

blinding · 18-07-2016 08:42AM

seligehgit wrote: »

Westmeath

Nice to play against a team that we have not played against that much (how often) in the championship.

Hopefully we show that we can adapt against different opposition and that they force us to show that we can defend against different opposition .

Hopefully we can get through and improve .

km79 · 18-07-2016 08:43AM

spurscormac wrote: »

Nice draw it has to be said.

as Tod pointed out though if cork win there would then also be a quarter final draw
if Donegal and ourselves win they can't meet Tyrone so we take that path
so up mayo and Donegal !
and ya know what the Dubs won't fancy Donegal in the quarter

spurscormac · 18-07-2016 08:50AM

Anyone know if our game is definitely on the Saturday or could it be on the Sunday?
Looks like I can't make Saturday, but Sunday would be possible.

km79 · 18-07-2016 08:51AM

spurscormac wrote: »

Anyone know if our game is definitely on the Saturday or could it be on the Sunday?
Looks like I can't make Saturday, but Sunday would be possible.

mayo has seen adamant it's on the Saturday
Sunday would also be better for me
hope it's not in croker either way
it quite possibly would have been the Hyde
That's 2 gates they have missed out on now

yop · 18-07-2016 09:04AM

km79 wrote: »

mayo has seen adamant it's on the Saturday
Sunday would also be better for me
hope it's not in croker either way
it quite possibly would have been the Hyde
That's 2 gates they have missed out on now

They'll do a double header in Croker i'd say. Hyde would have been the spot but as you said another pay day missed out!

Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

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