Tour de France Stage 12: Montpellier-Mt.Ventoux 184KM Spoilers

GT_TDI_150 · 15-07-2016 10:42AM

yates lost time too

gordongekko · 15-07-2016 10:42AM

Boscoirl wrote: »

So was Dan the only one to lose out yesterday?

Cycling was the biggest loser yesterday

petethedrummer · 15-07-2016 10:52AM

Darkglasses wrote: »

Have three bikes with Look, Shimano and Speed play and dump the useless Time/Mavic pedals that no teams use?

Even keep a set of shimanos and a pedal spanner on the back seat? It would take about a minute to swap pedals.

Or a few pairs of trainers so the toe straps could be used!

pelevin · 15-07-2016 10:52AM

Actually for me the bigger thing from yday's stage was Froome's engendering of a slowdown to let his teammates get back in. The other stuff was crazy but none of the cyclists' fault - just a mad thing that happened. I didn't catch a whole lot of the action so can someone tell me if Landa was part of the accident or had he been dropped earlier before tehn getting back in because of the slowdown cos of Froome's pee break. That Landa was subsequently driving things up Ventoux makes this bigger again but even if he'd been in teh crash, that's a racing incident & the racing was fully on.

Dan Martin obviously wasn't on a good day but still he'd have hit that climb over a minute ahead of people who got to join up with teh main bunch because of Froome's imo bullying tactic. Though this is in no sense a parochial thing for me, I'm just using Dan as an example for how the race got distorted.

godtabh · 15-07-2016 10:56AM

pelevin wrote: »

Actually for me the bigger thing from yday's stage was Froome's engendering of a slowdown to let his teammates get back in. The other stuff was crazy but none of the cyclists' fault - just a mad thing that happened. I find that very wrong. I didn't catch a whole lot of the action so can someone tell me if Landa was part of the accident or had he been dropped earlier before tehn getting back in because of the slowdown cos of Froome's pee break. That Landa was subsequently driving things up Ventoux makes this bigger again but even if he'd been in teh crash, that's a racing incident & the racing was fully on.

I've mixed feelings on that. Clearly it was a stroke and unsporting but (as far as I know) he didnt break any rules. He used the yellow jersey and the 'respect' it gets to take a comfort break that allowed his team mates to catch up.

This should be seen totally separate to what happened later.

All I can say is that Froome has the mindset of a champion. He didnt panic in either situation which I think, and regardless of what others think, puts him in a positive light for me.

Darkglasses · 15-07-2016 10:57AM

pelevin wrote: »

Actually for me the bigger thing from yday's stage was Froome's engendering of a slowdown to let his teammates get back in. The other stuff was crazy but none of the cyclists' fault - just a mad thing that happened. I didn't catch a whole lot of the action so can someone tell me if Landa was part of the accident or had he been dropped earlier before tehn getting back in because of the slowdown cos of Froome's pee break. That Landa was subsequently driving things up Ventoux makes this bigger again but even if he'd been in teh crash, that's a racing incident & the racing was fully on.

Dan Martin obviously wasn't on a good day but still he'd have hit that climb over a minute ahead of people who got to join up with teh main bunch because of Froome's imo bullying tactic. Though this is in no sense a parochial thing for me, I'm just using Dan as an example for how the race got distorted.

I didn't see it but bullying sounds like a fierce strong word. At some point every other team needs to stand up for themselves and draw a line, or else they can only blame themselves.

pelevin · 15-07-2016 11:04AM

godtabh wrote: »

I've mixed feelings on that. Clearly it was a stroke and unsporting but (as far as I know) he didnt break any rules. He used the yellow jersey and the 'respect' it gets to take a comfort break that allowed his team mates to catch up.

This should be seen totally separate to what happened later.

All I can say is that Froome has the mindset of a champion. He didnt panic in either situation which I think, and regardless of what others think, puts him in a positive light for me.

Armstrong didn't break any rules when preventing Simeoni from being in a break. It doesn't change things to me ethically - it was a vindictive abuse of power. In this case it wasn't vindictive but unethical in a racing sense. I find it bizarre how this could put Froome in a positive light for you. I've been praising Froome for how he's been racing but this to me was as said wilfully distorting the race & way out of order to force a slowdown. And if Landa had been dropped & got back in becuase of Froome's pee & then went on to drive things up Ventoux - that's so blatantly a distorting of the spirit of racing.

pelevin · 15-07-2016 11:06AM

Darkglasses wrote: »

I didn't see it but bullying sounds like a fierce strong word. At some point every other team needs to stand up for themselves and draw a line, or else they can only blame themselves.

I think bullying seems a very accurate & fair description. If the peloton had continued as tehy had been, iamgine the subsequent abuse they'd have got for their 'unsportsmanlike' behaviou. It would have been a tidal wave of criticism.
Just to ask again, does anyone know where Landa had been at this point in the race? Did the slowdown let him back in having been dropped earlier?

petethedrummer · 15-07-2016 11:12AM

I think this whole thing is great for cycling. People are actually interested now. They should conspire to have one massive f*kk up every year.

gordongekko · 15-07-2016 11:13AM

godtabh wrote: »

He didnt panic in either situation

So you're saying you didn't see the last 10 minutes of the race

mloc123 · 15-07-2016 11:14AM

godtabh wrote: »

All I can say is that Froome has the mindset of a champion. He didnt panic in either situation which I think, and regardless of what others think, puts him in a positive light for me.

He didn't panic? I am pretty sure running up the road was 100% panic.

pelevin · 15-07-2016 11:21AM

mloc123 wrote: »

He didn't panic? I am pretty sure running up the road was 100% panic.

But at least he didn't take his clothes off.

godtabh · 15-07-2016 11:22AM

Priceless

https://twitter.com/canyon_bikes/status/753895063554588672

godtabh · 15-07-2016 11:24AM

I think running up the road helped him get a bike quicker. The bike was useless but he didn't know that.

I clearly said that what he did after the first crash was a stroke

gordongekko · 15-07-2016 11:25AM

godtabh wrote: »

I think running up the road helped him get a bike quicker. The bike was useless but he didn't know that.

I clearly said that what he did after the first crash was a stroke

How does running away from the car with your bike get you a bike quicker?

godtabh · 15-07-2016 11:28AM

gordongekko wrote: »

How does running away from the car with your bike get you a bike quicker?

The car was some time away. Neutral service was closer but unable to get to him with the fans. Froome moved to a less crowded place

godtabh · 15-07-2016 11:30AM

This is clearly divisive. Time to concentrate on todays stage

Darkglasses · 15-07-2016 11:39AM

gordongekko wrote: »

How does running away from the car with your bike get you a bike quicker?

It doesn't, but you might as well be further up the road when you get it. Think of it as the only thing that matters is when the bike crosses the finish line - the more time the bike spends on top of the car, the quicker it'll cross the line.

buffalo · 15-07-2016 11:42AM

Could Quintana be docked time on the same day as Froome is gifted it?

https://twitter.com/assekevin/status/753720450551836673

gordongekko · 15-07-2016 11:47AM

He had radioed the team car. Either run towards it or get the mechanic to run with the bike towards him. When you panic you run away and ask a lad carrying tyres for a bike.

dastardly00 · 15-07-2016 11:49AM

pelevin wrote: »

I didn't catch a whole lot of the action so can someone tell me if Landa was part of the accident or had he been dropped earlier before tehn getting back in because of the slowdown cos of Froome's pee break. That Landa was subsequently driving things up Ventoux makes this bigger again but even if he'd been in teh crash, that's a racing incident & the racing was fully on.

pelevin wrote: »

And if Landa had been dropped & got back in becuase of Froome's pee & then went on to drive things up Ventoux - that's so blatantly a distorting of the spirit of racing.

pelevin wrote: »

Just to ask again, does anyone know where Landa had been at this point in the race? Did the slowdown let him back in having been dropped earlier?

Regarding Landa, my understanding of the events is that Landa was in the yellow jersey group before the crash.
When Gerrans hits the deck, so does Rowe and Stanndard. I don't think Landa falls.
Shortly after, Froome stops for a pee. Kiriyenka helps pace Froome back into the Quintana et al. group. There are other Sky riders with Kiriyenka and Froome, but I'm not sure where Landa is at this particular moment in time.
When they start climbing the Ventoux, Landa is leading the group. Landa gets dropped when Quintana attacks; Poels and Henao are the only Sky domestiques left.

Eamonnator · 15-07-2016 11:51AM

gordongekko wrote: »

When you panic you run away and ask a lad carrying tyres for a bike.

Or maybe, Froome was asking the MAVIC moto mechanic, where the MAVIC neutral service car was?

gordongekko · 15-07-2016 11:53AM

Eamonnator wrote: »

Or maybe, Froome was asking the MAVIC moto mechanic, where the MAVIC neutral service car was?

You mean the big yellow car that he was running away from when he was panicking?

ThisRegard · 15-07-2016 11:56AM

I don't think he panicked, like many he could have thrown his bike down, thrown his arms in the air and stropped. His legs must have been like lead running in cleats up a hill at that point, don't think too many cyclists do brick sessions to get used to it.

mloc123 · 15-07-2016 11:58AM

I don't buy the Eurosport line that 'He ran up the road to let the car through the crowds with a bike'.

He was running at one point with the Mavic car chasing after him, stopped.. started to go back to it, changed his mind again and kept going up the hill. I certainly don't think his reaction was cool, calm and collected.

MrMischief · 15-07-2016 12:20PM

Pudsy33 wrote: »

If Yates or Martin had have been hit while they chased, would they have gotten the time they had at the accident? Of course not. There lies my issue with the decision. Wipe it all off or stick to the result.

That sums up my feeling on the whole debacle....

dastardly00 · 15-07-2016 12:50PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

I don't think he panicked, like many he could have thrown his bike down, thrown his arms in the air and stropped.

Like Kittel

1bryan · 15-07-2016 01:14PM

The more I look at the footage from the stage and the more I think about the subsequent action, the more I'm convinced that a massive injustice has been done to the other riders in the race (including Porte).

The difference between Porte/Mollema and Froome is down to Froome's chainstay breaking. The others got back up and continued. Mollema, who was caught up in the crash, is rightly outraged. He never complained about the crash or the circumstances around it. Its like any other crash. If you're caught up in it, you try and get back up and continue. If you damage your bike and are slower to get back up, no matter how hard-done-by you feel, its tough.

Trying to draw parallels between this and the Adam Yates in incident is weak. The Yates incident affected everybody (though clearly Yates more than others). Yesterday's incident involved a handful of riders, but only one was affected adversely. And the subsequent decision made by the UCI (yes, the UCI) was made for him, and him alone (even though it marginally benefits Porte too).

Its hard not to think some favouritism was shown here.

To be honest, the whole thing stinks.

IMO, the yellow jersey, from this point on, as long as it stays on the shoulders of Froome, is tainted. He should not be wearing it today.

buffalo · 15-07-2016 01:24PM

1bryan wrote: »

The more I look at the footage from the stage and the more I think about the subsequent action, the more I'm convinced that a massive injustice has been done to the other riders in the race (including Porte).

Mollema rightly asked - if it had been his bike that was broken, and he was delayed, would he have been given the same time as Froome? Would 5th overall been as favourably treated as the yellow jersey?

Somehow I don't think so.

1bryan · 15-07-2016 01:30PM

buffalo wrote: »

Mollema rightly asked - if it had been his bike that was broken, and he was delayed, would he have been given the same time as Froome? Would 5th overall been as favourably treated as the yellow jersey?

Somehow I don't think so.

tend to agree

This incident brought to mind the article the Secret Pro wrote this week. Although he didn't state it explicitly, there does seem to be a very 'them and us' attitude in the peloton between native english-speaking and non-native english speaking riders. I'd hate to think that extended to adminstrative levels too.

Tour de France Stage 12: Montpellier-Mt.Ventoux 184KM **Spoilers**

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Tour de France Stage 12: Montpellier-Mt.Ventoux 184KM Spoilers