art exhib - grr!

Silent Grape

helllo, i dont know if this fits in here or not but anyway,

i was at the DlIADT graduate exhibition yesterday and the first room i went into had three ENORMOUS, and i mean they were huge, close ups of slit wrists, serious close ups. (photos)

now, beauty and art is all the name of the beholder, but i fell into a deep depression all day yestderday and today is a little better i suppose.

it was called 'do you want to stop..?' which implied self harm or whatever.

the thing is i slit my wrists a few times in the past, the worst time was when i attempted suicide.

the memories of that time, nearly a year ago, flooded my mind and i still cant shake them.

it was truly a disturbing sight, especially for someone who has been through the trauma of self harm.

i muttered to boyfriend that the pictured were disgusting, and some smarmy arty farty girl heard me and said, with a nice patronizing smile, 'no, they arnt', as though she had some ****ing insight or something, christ. i wish i could have showed her my scars and asked her if she thought they were art.

i felt violated and exposed and i was in a wierd sort of a dazed state of mind for the rest of the day, and im still feeling wierd about the whole thing.

im an art student myself, and i understand the whole shock thing or whatever the artist was trying to do, but her photos didnt turn it into something beautiful, into art, she just did a close up of deep cuts.

surely there should have been a warning on the door or something? then at least i would have been prepared, or maybe i wouldnt have gone in at all. either way i would have escaped my current screwed up state.

please give me your views and whatnot, and PLEASE dont get all patronizing on me, like i dont understand art, because i do.

anyway, sorry, had to rant, and im still so angry! sorry for the extra length rant x

seamus

Art means different things to different people.
The girl who made it obviously considered it art. Art never has to follow rules. It doesn't have to be tasteful, sensitive or even fall within any definitions.
You may not consider it art, you may consider it just a horrible picture, but the person beside you could consider it art. IMO, you go to an art exhibition and just accept what's there. If it disturbs, annoys or delights you, you accept it and move on. At the end of the day, the point of art is to invoke emotion and thought, and it did for you.

I'm very sorry for what you've gone though, perhaps you should consider counselling (if you haven't already)? But art falls outside the remit of censorship. If it annoys you, ignore it. Personally, I like to be either shocked, amused, or in awe when I go to an art exhibition, nothing else would do, but that's just me.

I hope I haven't sounded patronising

To extract a quote from myself
"Never consider for a second that something that you find morally despicable is even remotely disturbing to the next guy."

Silent Grape

i already said that i understand what she was doing, and that maybe she thought it was art or whatever, and art without emotions isnt really art at all, i GET all that, so youn dont need to explain that, or suggest counselling.

i thought the pictures were very interesting, but they affected me deeply and brought on severe flashbacks.

my point was that maybe a warning on the door telling me what to expect would have sufficed and i would have been prepared for what i saw.

seamus

Originally posted by Silent Grape
my point was that maybe a warning on the door telling me what to expect would have sufficed and i would have been prepared for what i saw.

What I was trying to get across, and probably failing, was that a warning for this piece would be out of place a an art exhibition. If you have to warn about one piece, you have to warn about all pieces, as somone may not be disturbed by the slit wrists, but may be disturbed by a piece of string hanging from a stick beside it (for example).
Then where do you stop? A warning on the sistine chapel door that the Last Judgement may be disturbing?

Of course, you could put a sign on the door saying "Warning: This exhibition may contain images or pieces which some people may find offensive". But, as I was trying to explain, this is a given when you go to any art exhibition, it's not something which needs to be said.

imp

I agree, there should have been a warning before that part of the exhibition. An artist/organiser has no way of knowing the people who will be at the exhibition and hence can't know how its going to affect them. A simple warning ensures that people are given a choice about particularly sensitive matters. The shock value of the works will still exist, but someone who reads a warning and chooses to go in will at least be prepared.

EDIT: Someone knows when they enter the Sistine Chapel that they're going to see biblical scenes portrayed in the frescoes. If someone is, for example, offended by Christianity then they can choose not to go to the chapel in the knowledge that what they would see there could be offensive to them. Also, the scenes in the Chapel are not particularly graphic or disturbing (as far as I know), but if they started putting up graphic pictures of Elijah and his supporters slaughtering the followers of Bha'al (sp?) I think people might think it necessary for a warning to be given so that people could chose not to view those incredibly violent scenes.

}:>

Silverfish

The object of modern art is to provoke a reaction, be it good or bad.

I got particularly upset over some pics myself in the past, but I couldn't deny its genius in provoking a reaction in me.

But the reaction that was provoked in you was unfair. Its all very well for people who've never had trauma like that to look at these pics and say 'Ohh marvellous, I see what the artist is trying to do here' while you, and people who've been where you've been, are thrown back to where they were when they did this. Sometimes 'Art' goes more for reaction than being concerned about genuinely hurting people, as it did to you.

But on the other hand again, the person who allowed themselves to be photographed for this obviously didn't feel to bad about doing it. If they allowed themselves to be photo'd, I (personally) wouldn't allow myself to be affected by it. It was something they wanted to do, let them do it, if they want.

You were in the situation, and they were in it at the time of photographing. The artist thought it was art, but so obviously did the person being photographed.

But maybe they did it for different reasons, and its the reasons BEHIND slashed wrists that seems to be affecting you.

But, you will see things that will trigger flashbacks. As life goes on, you'll see more, and life doesn't come with warnings.

Everytime I see someone with their hair completely covered by a woolly hat, I'm reminded of my sister who died of leukaemia at 15. But I've accepted there will always be things that will remind me, and upset me, and bring me back to it.

Just mark it down as something that has happened, that affected you, and if it affected you, you can bet your bottom dollar that other people were affected by it too, and you weren't the only person stung by it, and be angry at the artist too, and don't feel you shouldn't be.

Your reactions and your feelings are the one thing that is truly yours, so don't deny them or push them away. Just accept them.

And personally, I would have clattered that smarmy arty farty person that said that to you. Then, when she has a good size black eye, claim it was 'Art'.

jammy_dodger

Ask yourself
Lets say there was a warning stating that some people may find certain pieces offensive ( a kind of general statement ) Would it have deterred you from going in ?
IMO a warning isnt applicable to an art exhibition, this may be a fault but also the suprise of an exhibtion (if ya get my drift)

I was at the exhibition and saw the photos in question, and you certainly are'nt over stating them, they were exstreamly graphic (not my cup of tea, thought they were purely shock value)
Some other great pieces there, but too war orientated.

TBH i cant find a solution to your question, when you walk into an exhibition you leave yourself exposed to what images the artist's have installed. You can't prepare yourself for what your about to see.

I know you may not want to have done this but,
When i was there alot of the students were present, and willing to talk about their work, Maybe if you had talked to the artist in question, They could of elaborated, on what they were trying to 'convey' in the piece, And in understanding what exactly the artist was trying to get across, It may have change your relationship with the piece, It might have made the images less personal,and given them a broader appeal , as im sure the artist was'nt trying to focus on you.

I sympathize with you, Its difficult when upsetting emotions are suddenly raised without promt.

Silent Grape

thanks for all your considerate and sensitive replies. im feeling a lot better about the whole thing now thats ive had a few days to think about it.

maybe a warning is what im talking about, usually at 'proper' (soory) exhibitions there are descriptions and whatnot about peoples work, however i was not willing to fork over 5 euro for a brochure thing at this particular exhibition.

maybe something on the door, just subtly letting you know its gonna be a little graphic. its respectful to all, and gives people choice over their feelings. i didnt appreciate not having the choice to enjoy my day on that particular day.

how and ever, i completly agree that art is whatever you want it to be, emotions etc blah de blah, and i have a very open mind.
i am not suggesting that the photos wernt 'art', (whatever that means)

Jammy dodger, it wouldnt have deterred me from going in, but i would have then have had the time to prepare myself mentally fore the photos.

a person who has been traumatised by war doesnt tend to watch war movies.. they have the choice not be have those emotions evoked again. i didnt. a simple message on the door would have given me that choice, and while i still wouldve gone in and been affected by the photos, i wouldnt have been so shocked and completely over whelmed by emotion.

thanks for your reply silverfish : )

mia x

The Sweeper

Silent Grape I think you should phone up and find out who the organiser of this exhibition is. Then contact them and make your case to them. I think you have a very valid point.

Just because 'Art' has one letter less than 'Film' that shouldn't preclude it from a guidance rating - I'm not saying the censors should descend upon this graduate exhibition and close it down, but I am saying that the organisers have a responsibility to visitors to the exhibition to state cleary on the access routes that the exhibition contains disturbing images.

jammy_dodger

Just because 'Art' has one letter less than 'Film' that shouldn't preclude it from a guidance rating

Have to say i disagree, IMO im well aware that film can be art, but its main device is too entertain, cinemas, actionflicks and so on. It has a wider appeal (id say most peolpe have seen more films than art exhibitions) which is why IMO censorship applies to film.
In art today its almost a given that, shock tatics are used. Peolple who are interested in art should expect it, and are usally open minded to them.

Silent Grape I think you should phone up and find out who the organiser of this exhibition is. Then contact them and make your case to them. I think you have a very valid point.

THB I dont believe the harm caused in Silent Grape situation was the fault of the exhibition, The piece provoked uncomfortable (understatment) emotions in Silent Grape, which most likely was the artists intent.
The artist, his/her piece,or the exhibition, didnt for force or push Silent Grape to atempt suicide. That was Silent Grape's own issue, which he/she will have to live with for the rest of his/her life. They're not liable for his/her previous actions, its beyond their controll.

If Silent Grape overheard a conversation in public between 2 people who were talking about suicide. He/she could take offence, but it wouldn't be their fault that someone in the converstion holders vicinity was offend by their conversation because of Silent Grapes personal experiences.
Just as the artist, his/her piece,or the exhibition wouldn't be at fault, Due to Silent Grapes prior experience.
Would you expect the people talking to annonce that they were going to talk about a sensitive issue?


Sorry if i come across as cold towards Silent Grape, Its not my intent.
You were delt a shi**y hand by going to the exhibition, but they're your emotions.
You have to deal with them.
And no warning sign or censorship is going to change that.

The Sweeper

Originally posted by jammy_dodger
In art today its almost a given that, shock tatics are used. People who are interested in art should expect it, and are usally open minded to them.

...almost a given. But not absolutely. The whole point of art is to illicit a response. It doesn't have to be 'wow how great those photos are' - just a response. A shocking piece of imagery is likely to create a mixed response - my argument is that the exhibitors and exhibition organiser knew full well that such imagery might well shake a few people up.

A warning sign isn't censorship. In its lowest form it's a way of covering your ass - you know, "This packet of peanuts may contain nuts" sort of thing. In fact, I'm surprised that any exhibitor of anything likely to cause a stir wouldn't post a disclaimer up in this day and age - it stikes me as naïve to be honest. Perhaps that's because it's a graduate exhibition.

I still think Silent Grape has a right to rant at someone involved. If nothing else, perhaps it will make him/her feel better.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Silent Grape

yeah, i just wanted to rant my ass off!

i dont really want to complain to the college or whatever, ive already gotten over the whole thing to some extent and i dont really want to bring it up with someone who is obviously going to oppose me with some force (im guessing).

i am open minded about art, completely open minded,i want o be a bloody artist for christs sake, BUT whether im open minded or not, thats not the issue.

how come films come with notices saying that there are sex/drug use/violent scenes on the back? thats respecting everybodies rights while still leaving the art (film) intact.

self harm is a senstitve issue, the artist had control over how to deal with such an issue, and i dont believe they dealt with it in a very sensitive way (i know this isnt the issue, but anyway) i dont mean wrap it in cotton wool and have a different representation, but if the artisit did a picture of sever self harm, then that person should have some knowledge of self harm and all the things that go along with it. therefore the artisit, if she had ay cop on, would have realised that not only will the piece shock people (probably the aim) but may completly traumatise others.

my feelingts are not the responsiblility of the artist, however, and i know that, but i am angry that i had no CHOICE in the matter, and then the artisit, DID have control over my feelings.


jammy dodger, i know the piece did not make me attempt suicide (it happened ages ago) so thats really got nothing to do with what im saying.

if i overheard people talking about suicide, it completely depends on what they were saying! so that points a little invalid too!

and you cannot compare a piece of art with a conversation! they are two compeltly incomparable things!

actually, if u had READ my post, you would know that a warning sign (which isnt censorship, by the way) would have compeltely changed my emotions. and i am fully aware that they are my emotions (who elses are they gonna be?) and im also aw\re that i ahve to deal with them (which is what im doing)

and i never said that the exhib created my current situation!

please get your facts straight jammy!

thanks for youi replies minesajackdaniels. having thought about while writing this think i might ring someone. i didnt get to finish the exhib on that particular day, so if i go down again i might go about talking to someone about it.

it really surprises me how superficial a lot of the arty people are (a lot of the students, anyway) and snobby too!

im just terribly afraid that the person i talk to will put me down or get all superior and philosophical on me . id actually like to talk to artist but i doubt she'd be there.

anyhoo, cheers for all your replies, i feel a lot better about it now, mostly because of the kind words of u lot

mia x
(im a girl by the way)

arloeisenberg

Anyone u talk to in the college where that art exhibition was, will tell u to thoughen up and stop being a baby, so u saw a upsetting picture...don't u see your arm everyday?...u said u cut yourself...so don't u get reminded everyday when u see it anyway? i think that u just want to get attention. ur quote says things about not focusing on the past because u intend to live in the future, well why don't u put it into practice? stop moaning and get on with it. it was a picture, YOU went to IT, there was no coercion or forcing invloved....u brought it on yourself and want someone to blame.

Silent Grape

Arloeisenberg, nothing you said was even remotley helpful, let alone respectful. you dont know me so you have no right to claim whether im looking for attention or not. i would appreciate if you dont reply again. thanx

jamyy, i did not mean to be so abrupt there in my last post, i appreciate the point you have made.

mia x

Silent Grape

you also have no idea of the steps i have take to move my life on, and to remain in the future, ad stop living in the past. if u had read my post, you would have seen that that was also an issue, the the photos brought be back a step in recovery. i hope you never have to deal with mental illness.

jammy_dodger

My post wasn't directly for Silent Grape, it was more of a response to minesajackdaniels post.
I took a bit of a defensive side, on arts behalf. Im studying it too.
I just don't like the idea of censorship in art (i'd consider a warning censorship)

The tactic i choose of comparing a converstion to the art piece, was just to show the same situation in a different light.


I know you don't blame your situation on the exhibition, Its just that minesajackdaniels post suggested you should contact the college and complain, when the whole situation was out of there controll.

Sorry if i caused offence, I was trying to help ya (im not evil)
By giving my view of the situation

Anywho i don't want to rant anymore,

Good luck to ya Silent Grape.
Hey were both studying art, maybe are paths will cross one day. If so don't write me off as a D1ck.

DadaKopf

Yeah, I saw those photos, they were amazing. You could see right into the cuts - one looked like a cross. Technically they were astounding and visually they were arresting. Of course, it was the size that initially impressed, but then the viewer was encouraged to go up and inspect every hair and every blood cell of this anonymous person's arms so that every viewer was forced into a personal relationship with the photograph and with the scars. While the piece (it was a triptych) was overtly about self-harm, I suspect it was more metaphorical than that, a reference to the many ways in which we, as individuals and as a culture, continue to harm ourselves as a means of escape.

The three images obviously provoked some very strong emotions in you, specifically because of your own times doing that and you have every right to find it obscene and disgusting because, in a sense, those arms were your arms. But that person in the hall also has every right to consider your reaction extreme, presumably because you both have two different sets of life experiences but I'm quite sure that, if you explained your experiences to her, she may not have been so snotty, eh?

Don't take it personally. Stick by your principles that art can be shocking and that, this time, you've truly been shocked.

deimos

Originally posted by arloeisenberg
Anyone u talk to in the college where that art exhibition was, will tell u to thoughen up and stop being a baby, so u saw a upsetting picture...don't u see your arm everyday?...u said u cut yourself...so don't u get reminded everyday when u see it anyway? i think that u just want to get attention. ur quote says things about not focusing on the past because u intend to live in the future, well why don't u put it into practice? stop moaning and get on with it. it was a picture, YOU went to IT, there was no coercion or forcing invloved....u brought it on yourself and want someone to blame.

don't have much to say but you are an 'insensitive bastard' and Silent Grape is right, you have no right to judge because u don't know her

patch

Originally posted by arloeisenberg
Anyone u talk to in the college where that art exhibition was, will tell u to thoughen up and stop being a baby, so u saw a upsetting picture...don't u see your arm everyday?...u said u cut yourself...so don't u get reminded everyday when u see it anyway? i think that u just want to get attention. ur quote says things about not focusing on the past because u intend to live in the future, well why don't u put it into practice? stop moaning and get on with it. it was a picture, YOU went to IT, there was no coercion or forcing invloved....u brought it on yourself and want someone to blame.

Never mind that tosser luveen, some people are just born lacking in brain power! -I've seen a few of your posts in the past, glad to see you doing so well.

Silent Grape

thanks again for all your replies (thanks patch! )

ahhhh! dadakopf! i saw the bleedin pictures! i didnt need a graphic description!!!

the girl who was so smarmy actaully wasnt the artisit, (i dont think so anyway) but i have a right to my opinion and she has a right to hers, except i wasnt talking to her and i didnt ask for her opinion. so that was a bit annoying.

ah come on jammy! a censorship is saying'no kids allowed' or something, a notice is simply respectful and doesnt harm anybody, does it? ( and please dont tell me it harms the 'art' in some metaphyssical philosophical way!)

you not a dik, jammy x

thanks for all your kind words, and deimos and patch for sticking up for me with that person with the long complicated name that i couldnt be bothered writing

cheers, mia x

DadaKopf

It'd be silly to censor it. "WARNING, THIS ADVERTISEMENT FOR BIG MAC MAY MAKE YOU HUNGRY!" Your reaction says more about you than it does about the piece. Personally, I thought some of the graphic design should have had a warning because it was so fantastically bad.

Silent Grape

of course its about my reaction, im not talking about the piece. its about how the piece brought on my reaction.

a notice isnt censoring.

your comparison with mcdonalds is a little immature tbh.

but thanks anyway ... i think....

DadaKopf

I don't think the comparison is immature. My point was how silly your suggestion was. No offence, like. Because, if you're calling for a warning sign, it's not really just about your reaction anymore, is it?

patch

No offence loike, but the thread IS about HER reaction.... start up an anti-censorship thread if you feel the need to argue about it.;)

b3t4

Out of respect for victims of self harm I believe that a notice should of been placed at the entrance to the door.

Having been a sufferer in the past it doesn't take much to have a relapse. Silent-Grape was fortunate enough to have this place to come to and has been making steps to get her life back on track. However there are many other sufferers out there that aren't as fortunate and that arent even close to recovery. These *people* deserved a warning. Art is art but people are more important, IMO.

On visiting a number of websites in the past as with regard this subject they will always have a disclaimer which reads along the following "please be aware that the following material may cause feelings to self-harm". Those pages merely contained text.

Silent-Grape,
Im glad to hear that you are getting to grips with this and are finding it a little easier to cope with. Just remember that at least they were images you were looking at and not your own arms. *hug*

Best wishes,
A.

Silent Grape

thanks a million for your reply, b3t4, i kow what u mean about the websites giving us warnings and whatnot. and i was SO tempted to do the deed again after seeing the photos, but ive gotten over that now, anyway, whats that going to help?

anyway, thanks a million

x

The Sweeper

Originally posted by jammy_dodger
I know you don't blame your situation on the exhibition, Its just that minesajackdaniels post suggested you should contact the college and complain, when the whole situation was out of there controll.

...eh, no. The manager of the exhibition space makes a decision to allow or disallow an exhibition in their premises. They are not responsible for Silent Grapes reaction of course, but they do have a responsibility to what is exhibited in their premises.

Saying the situation was out of their control is like saying that the owner of a building where a tenant opens a brothel is immune to prosecution because it was 'beyond their control'.

LegacyUser

its Mia, i cudnt be bothered signing in again. thanks for all your replies. as i said earlier, i was getting over it and i didnt feel the need to complain or whatever to the exhib people.

but i still ended up cutting myself again last nyt (other factor involved of course).

i believe that if i hadnt seen the photos i cud have dealt with that distressing incident last nyt a lot better.

i even went back down to the exhib a cuple of days ago and i felt muych better having confronted the photos for a second time, this time being bale to choose to see them.

but just one little thing ended up with me cutting again, i really do believe that the photos have left me vulnerable since i saw them.

anyway as someone said, thats life i gotta deal with it. its a n awful lot to deal with tho.

mia x

Nevyn

Good to see that you are still with us Mia, esp after last night.

ok not lecturing or telling you how to run your life dear but are you seeing a counsellor ? or were you seeing one ?

If this has started to happen again may be you need to go back
and deal with what those images has stirred up with in you.

It has been a whole year and you did mange to but it behind you for that lenght of time, that is a huge achievemnet , I know for i have a family member who is making a simular effort right now.


You have learned new ways of coping and they have been working so dont go back to the habit of cutting yourself, you dont need it anymore. you are not that person any more you have a whole year of growth and new experiences.

You dont have to deal with it all on your own but I doubt any here can help or understand so make the phone call to the person who's care you were under counsellor, phsyc, doctor who ever and make an appointmet and keep it.

take care of yourslef for no one else can do it for you.
oh and dont go see the film the Sectrary

wishing you well

Thaed

Silent Grape

thanku for ur reply thaed.

i am seeing a counsellor and its really good. im sure my wanting to self harm will go away in the next few days anyway. sigh.

thanks again for all the kind words from everyone

x

b3t4

Silent_Grape,

Im sorry to hear that you had the urge to self harm again. Relapses are hard but know that you can get through it. (hug)

Since reading your post last week and just simply the reminders on my legs and arms, I have had this awful urge to cut again. It's not out of a need to cope with anything or that something terrible has happened in my life. Right now my life is better than it ever has been. Its like having a terrible itch I just cant satisfy no matter what I do. Im not seeeing a counsellor (sp??) but found that just sayng this to my boyfriend has helped emmensely, getting it out of my head helped.

Keep talking is all the advise I can give you. My last relapse was in Febuary and some days are harder than others.

Take care and love you and be good to you because at the end of the day you are the only one who can help you.

Take care and best wishes,
A.

patch

Howya Mia. I was kinda shocked when I read your post, it's upsetting to see you take a couple of steps back like that. Hopefully though, you now know one more thing that can cause you to relapse, so you'll know what to expect and so avoid doing it again

This should also show those who take the time to rant about related issues in PI, that perhaps it would be best not to :mad:

Best wishes Mia....

LegacyUser

hi!

oh silent grape, so sorry to hear u slipped up and had a relapse. i really *know* how hard it is. keep up wit the counselling is all i can say, it will work eventually. remember its only a slip, u still went for ages without injuring urself b4 this and u will go longer the next time hopefully.

B3T4

---

can i please just ask how did your boyfriend react when u told him about ur self injury? did he find out by accident por did u tell him? how long were you going iout that u felt comfortable to talk to him about it. i am just wondering how boyfriends react to such things. sorry if u find this nosey, u really dont have to answer if u dont want :-)

take care of yourselves ok

Silent Grape

thanks for all the support and kind words.

i think i was just being melo dramatic that night, but GODDAMN its tempting! its really starge but i really like to look at the scars i made and i like the pain as well. im sure there's some deep psychological reason behin that but anyway,

its really good to hear that other people have been in the same situation, so thanks a million for that xx

dadakopf, comparing the want to self harm with the want to eat IS silly and immature. (not to mention completely disrespectful and belittling my problem)

Nevyn

if you really must get a thick rubber band and put it on ur wrist and snap it instead of cutting.

not a solution by a long way but is is less harmfull.

b3t4

hello, (that being the non-registered user)

I told my boyfriend not long after we had started to go out. If our relationship was to go to the next step (ie sex) then I felt I had to tell him. The scars from Febuary are still very noticeable and would only have caused questions and embarrasment for him if I hadn't just come out and told him. I must admit however that if they werent as noticeable I might have waited a bit longer to tell him.

His reaction was one of concern and the usual questions. However, I made him clear on my feelings and told them why they were there and why I had resorted to self-injury and how I was doing everything to not do that again. The more insight he has into me the better chance we have as a couple. Honesty being the best policy for the good and the bad parts. If he didnt know the score from the start then he would of being going out with a girl he didnt truly know.

Of course this depends on the guy in question, I was lucky.
Hope that helps,
A.

cat_rant

i love art and understand the shock factor involved but having a history of self harm i would prob have reacted the same in grapes shoes . i think i would find it very insensitive and would be thrown back into past memories and it would cause me alot of pain so i agree with minesajackdaniels there should have been a warning.
i understand the feeling of bad memories when unknows to me i watched a film with self mutalation and suicid3e in it it really took me of gaurd and returned me to bad memories and had to do 3 weeks counsilling to get over it .

cat_rant

thead knows about the rubber band trick thro me its one i use when i feel like cutting gives you the pain without the scares and it helps tbh .

Silent Grape

thanks for your reply,i know what youmean about filmshaving suiide and such in them! hurts a hell of alot. at least when i went to see the hours, i knew id be cring by the end of it!

anyway, gud luck
xx

cat_rant

no prob silent grape just tke care of yourself and good luck with everything