death to politicians

Beëlzebooze

I was watching the top echelon of the american administration arrive in Jordan this morning, and as the whole group got out of the plane I couldn't help thinking what a nice oppertunity this would be to wipe them all out. The ramifications of such an action aside, what do you people think of this?

I know it is wrong to wish someone dead because you do not agree with their opinions/policies, but sometimes desperate measures are needed to get things straightened out.

Considering what the current US admin. is doing, and it really worries me, I can't help feeling that the world is going to hell in a handbag, and the main perp. is G.W.Bush and his cronies.
The way that the US administration is flexing its muscles is scary to say the least.

So do any of you agree that assasination/murder is a solution?

MiCr0

i'm going to lock this - guess why???

it seem that this is just suggesting that terrorism is a political end.

violence begets violence.
and this isn't the place to try and justify terrorism - its never the answer....

i'll reopen this - but if it goes like i'm sure it will - then its lockdown time

Beëlzebooze

fair point, but in all honesty I never considered it could be construed as terrorism.

Kell

I have to agree with Beëlzebooze on this one. I think such an assasination couldn't be construed as terrorism. It would be the removal of a régime that thinks it's OK to hide military dictatorship behind democracy while forcing their opinions down the throats of the rest of the world with the aid of a big big gun.

K-

MiCr0

i can't see how any one can think that this is ok, where do you draw the line?

do you think that killing them would change anything?

do you think gore is different than bush?

and if bush dies then you (or more accurately) the american's will get dick chaney (sp?)

killing politician's is the worst form of "justice", it will create dissent and just lead to problems being inflated.

do you think that the problems in the north would be fixed if Paisley or Adams were shot? would *you* perfer if one of them was? do you think it would be better for the people on site?

think of the backlash, and the spiral that it would start....

all because *you* think it would be better.......

mike65

Hmmmmmmmmmm :rolleyes:

Lets kill 'em all starting with Bertie Ahern
and Celia (hell she's practically in the government) then we can move onto Jacques Chirac for being a hypocrite crook which is a good enough reason to bump of Silvio Bellisconi. Gerhardt Schroder is a coward who can't take a tough politcial decison but will sue newsapaers for suggesting he colours his grey hairs (oops!) so he should be got rid of. That Tony Blair agh! :mad: Peace Process? who cares about that? He's wifes a total flake kill em both! and so on....

Mike.

Spenguin

Assasination seems like an easy solution to your problems, but when you think about it, you're killing someone because you don't like the way they do things, and the way they do things that you don't like is probably forcing people to do what they want, and if neccessary, by using violence. You would both be doing the same thing, trying to eliminate your problems by destroying those who cause them, so it would be somewhat hypocritical. There are better ways to get rid of them that doesn't involve killing them. Besides, if you did kill someone they would just be replaced by someone else, who is possibly more corrupt and tyrannic than the first.

Beëlzebooze

it is so true that for everyone would have different criteria for getting rid of certain people in power, but I was thinking of the ones that affect hundreds of thousands of lives in a negative way, the warmongers, the dictators etc.

However, nobody seems to have a problem with the fact that several assasination attempts where made on Hitler.


Of course it cannot be done, and it shouldn't be done, but to sit by completely powerless, and watch these animals destroy other human lives from the comfort of their govt. buildings ...... sometimes it is just too much to take in.

Beëlzebooze

in hindsight, I suppose you are all right, we should just do what we always do, sit back, watch the suffering, the killing, and wait for our leaders to get their fingers out! and when they don't give out about them!

QED

MiCr0

my sarcasm meter just exploded here after that last post.

do you not see any other option to killing the leaders to achieve a goal?
i'd hate to get into an arguement with you so

However, nobody seems to have a problem with the fact that several assasination attempts where made on Hitler.

thats only in hindsight - which is a wonderful thing....
which politicians should we assissinate now?
bush/blair/sharon/ahern/all of them?

if we just blew up the UN in New York, would this be for the "greater good?"

but I was thinking of the ones that affect hundreds of thousands of lives in a negative way

have bush and blair made live worse for american's and british people or just the iraqi's?

Beëlzebooze

Micro, do you feel empowered enough to do something? because I sure as hell do not.

Of course hindsight is 20/20, but before the fact someone was willing to take the gamble, and had an assasination been successfull, the gamble would have panned out ok.

This is not an excuse to start random killing spree's but just food for thought.

and yes, that was a very sarcastic remark, no personal offence to anyone intended, but I can't help feeling it's true.

what kind of solutions would you propose? (assuming you have a problem with the way the world is managed)

Chaos-Engine

Originally posted by Beëlzebooze
Micro, do you feel empowered enough to do something? because I sure as hell do not.

Of course hindsight is 20/20, but before the fact someone was willing to take the gamble, and had an assasination been successfull, the gamble would have panned out ok.

This is not an excuse to start random killing spree's but just food for thought.

and yes, that was a very sarcastic remark, no personal offence to anyone intended, but I can't help feeling it's true.

what kind of solutions would you propose? (assuming you have a problem with the way the world is managed)

A person doesn't have to have a solution to the problem just because they criticised your opinion on the matter. That would leave sports commentators out of a job as i'm sure that most active players are much more skilled than the 40-something eamon dumie...

I'd like to see them done away with too -- but the reality is that it would casue more harm than good. Just lots of disinfranchisation and then when they are out of government the courts of justice

Victor

Related thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=738696#post738696

Spenguin

You can't just kill your problems away! Sure, politicians can make the world suck sometimes, but do you think you could do any better? You're suggesting killing people because you don't like the choices they've made. I kinda feel sorry for them, because sometimes they have to make hard decisions that whatever they do will result in millions of people hating them. Think of Blair,
Choices:
1 Keep the peace to allow an injustice to continue.
2 Start a war to free the people of Iraq.

DeVore

So lets examine the morality of this idea then.
My definition of morality goes like this: If everyone did it how would things look? (I'll explain that in another thread).

If everyone decided that topping a prime minister or entire cabinet they didnt like was acceptible (as you suggest) in extremis. What might happen?

Ok so you dont like Bush et al... you assassinate them for the good of the race. Ok. You replace him with Al Gore or Nelson Mandela or whoever.

Now, say Micro there hates the new guy so he tops them (as he's entitled to... moral laws arent made just for you you know!). I top Micros replacement because I liked Bush in the first place and put Dick Chaney in, who is immediately topped by you. etc etc etc...

Suddenly everyone is running around killing politicians they dont like. So noone wants to be a politician because theres noone out there who EVERYONE is going to like.

Can you see how this will spiral into chaos? Hence its not moral (imho).

Some other questions:
Why stick with Governments.... can I kill all the directors of Nike (who do a lot more damage and are accountable to noone)?

Can we kill only our own government or can we kill other peoples governments too?

If you were in Government would you rescind this ability?

DeV.

Bob the Unlucky Octopus

People seem to have forgotten the ballot-box here? If you don't like a politician, don't vote for him! As far as Bush goes- I can see why you'd hate his policies ( I hate most of them myself)- but consider this.

9/11 enraged the American people, it filled us with a sense of utter disgust, we were willing to do *anything*, tolerate *anything* in the name of security (Patriot Act, Patriot II etc). Could you honestly imagine what would happen to the political climate if Bush was assasinated? It would give practically unlimited powers to Rumsfled, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Armitage, Condi and the rest of that neoconservative rabble pulling the President's strings. Be careful what you wish for.

Beëlzebooze

I know you are right, and that it is a matter of boundries, of what you consider to be evil. I personally think that starting two wars in as many years is quite the pinnacle of evil, and that is why I posted what I did. And no, to answer your questions, I probably would not stop there, I would probably go round taking out some more evil people, more genocidal maniacs, hell eventualy I might extend my spree to marketeers and do DeVore a favour ;-)

I suppose you end up defeating your own object, and becoming that what you set out to get rid of. Sometimes though, it seems worth it..

Catch_22

Originally posted by Bob the Unlucky Octopus
People seem to have forgotten the ballot-box here? If you don't like a politician, don't vote for him!

over 50% of voters didnt, but that didnt seem to do much good

gandalf

Personally eventhough I'd love to see "something" happen to Bush it would be extremely counterproductive and what follows would be 100 times worse (remember Bush isn't really running things its the Neocons who were in place with Regan and Daddy Bush).

I think as humans we try and take the easy & simplistic way to solve our problems which may look like they are going to help the current situation buut in the long term makes things alot more complex and in some cases dangerous.

One prime example of this is the current "War on Terror" from the Axis of Diesel which has failed to resolve Afghanistan's issues (its slowly returning to lawlessness and drug production) and now has America facing its own "Northern Ireland" sitaution in Iraq (40 US troops killed in a month AFTER the war is over!).

It seems that us humans have problems with communications on personal, community and international levels and the only way we can address this is sometimes with violence.

Gandalf.

DeVore

Actually I've changed my mind... fuk it... top em all (especially those Marketeers).

DeV.

Hobbes

Before everyone starts fantisizing. There is a very famous Usenet post (lost the link though) where someone mentions just this comment, then warned not to even joke about it says what are they going to do about it?

A few weeks later Secret service men showed up at his work place and he's called into the CEO to answer questions and then brought home and his place searched. Not arrested but cautioned and probably put on file.

So while your feelings towards Bush may not be very high, just be careful as the Secret Service take stuff like this very seriously.

That said, Assination does not work as a method of policy change. If anything it does the reverse, and is basically a declaration of war (as your saying everyone in your government is fair game).

The easiest way to get rid of Bush and his lads is to let the US people vote him out, failing that wait until he's finished running the US down the toilet.

Beëlzebooze

In that case I am sure the Secret Service have their hands full at the moment, if they are going around interogating everyone with those kind of sentiments.
Anyway, I was not asking for advise on how to go about such a deed, but what people felt about it.

Having said that, it would never be my intention to bring unwanted attention to this comunity, so if any of the mods or admins feel that this post should be "eliminated" please feel free.

I suppose MiCro was right all allong.

DeVore

years ago I started the Electronic Frontier Ireland (EFI) with a bunch of other heads.

One of the first things we had to deal with was a guy in DCU who mailed Clinton (president@whitehouse.gov) saying "how does it feel to know you'll die on the same day as your wife".

Unfortunately he used his g/friend's email address.

The irish gardai, accompanied by the spooks turned up and hauled his g-friend out of her exam a few days later. He was in the same exam and saw what happened and 'fessed up.
Result was that he was suspended (I think) and that the entire of first and second year students had email priveleges removed (which is when we got involved).

So there you go!

DeV.

ps: my name and address and details were entered into an FBI database at the time... I know because they mistakenly send me invitations to talks given by returning G8 summiteers...

Beëlzebooze

Ok, I just had to reread my original post, just to make sure what I wrote. I expressed a wish, a fantasy if you like.

Unless I have an obsessive admirer out there that would do anything to please me , and make my every wish come true (god I hope she's female) I don't think my silly little post would have the SS guys (what an apt abreviation for Secret Service btw) worrying an awfull lot.

Iit would be stupid in the extreme to send an email, or post something like " I bought a gun, and I'm gonna pop a cap in his a$$", I mean ffs. OMG, now they think I'm hiding something!!!