Dodgy modem in Sky receiver

Grayarea

I have had my Sky digital system since Nov. 2000. At the time it was installed the phone was not connected.

I am interested in Sky+ so thought I should get my current box working on a line for the mirror sub option.

To cut a long story short, the modem does not work, the line is fine.

Sky don't want to know as it is out of warranty and want to charge me for the repair.

I understand that as the modem did not work from new the supplier is responsible for fixing the faulty item under statute of limitations.

So what do you think my chances are, and can I just buy a new modem for it and save myself some trouble?

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Grayarea.

skydigiman

I would'nt worry about it yet m8 , sky have already put back the launch date , and they dont know when it will be etc...

byte

If you press Services >> System Setup >> System Test, what does it say?

I have sometimes noticed that the contact pins inside the socket can cross over each other, and need to be seperated again with a pin or something small. Worth a look.

watty

If you don't have a current ROI subscription the Modem may be trying the wrong number...

Some older Grundigs the modem is separate board.

I have wondered too, if the box is booted with an external modem on the RS232 port is it recognised and used?

Has anyone here got these new Gamepads? Do they really connect to RS232 port?

Grayarea

Mine is a seperate board.

The pins in the socket seems well aligned.

System test allways says 'line busy' when the line is connected to the box or 'not connected' if I pull the line.

If I try the new installation option it tries to make a call and fails saying 'callback failed'

I have a current sub.

Thanks,

Grayarea

watty

With PC modems I used to get that symtoms if the modem "country" was set wrong as the dial tone would be interpreted as "engaged".

Are you on regualar copper wire Eircom or something stranger?


Never tried my digibox phone since I changed from Eircom copper to Chorus Wireless loop (not related at all to Chorus cable / MMDS or Powernet, other than it same company!)

Grayarea

I am on ISDN Eircom.

I though the same about the dial tone issue, but I cannot see anyway to configure the modem.

Thanks,

Grayarea.

PaddyFagan

Have you connected a regular PC modem to the line?

Some phone lines seem to have this problem (I suspect, but haven't got the technical know how to say for sure, that it's due to noise on the line). I had the same problem with my PC modem where I used to live. (and have found a number of other people who've had the same problem.)

The solution seems to be to only connect the inner two wires from the phone socket to the modem (in fact a lot of newer modems (and answer phones etc) only have these two connections). If you have an old cable you don't care about, you can just snip the wires, otherwise a small amount of electrical tape should get you by to test the theory.

If you look at the connection on the phone cable, face on it should look something like the (rough) drawing below:
---==----
|- - - -|
|1|2|3|4|

You need to isolate the connections on pins 1 & 4 (by cutting the wires or whatever)

Grayarea

Just had a chat with a Grundig engineer and he said I might need a cable with 2 and 3 crossed as the port on the back of early boxes was a UK style modem port. Anyone else using a crossed cable?

Grayarea.

ShaneOC

Didn't realise their was a difference. There is no apparent difference between modem ports on Irish or UK digiboxes. The other end of the connection is different but loads of places (Argos for example) have adapters to handle that end.

I had an original Grundig box which I got the week Sky digital launced the free box offer here. It was connected to the phone line (by me) with no problems whatsoever.

Sounds a bit like porkie pies

Grayarea

Stranger and stranger yet...

I took my box around to a friends house who also has Sky and my box dialed back no problem, so my problem is some sort of compatibility between Eircom ISDN plug and play unit and the Sky digibox modem.

I will try knocking out lines 1 and 4 as suggested above.

Any other ideas?

Thanks,

Grayarea.

shabbyroad

did that work for you ? My Panasonic (3 years old and until today I didn't need to connect it to a phone line) is exhibiting the same problems.

shabbyroad

ok - I made a bit of progress.... I made up a longggg extension cord and it's working fine.
My suspicion is the wireless (phone extension via mains) adaptor which my uncle in the UK gave me - I think this might be a BT/Eircom wiring issue... so I'm off to search boards and do a little googling about this.

watty

Ah... you didn't tell us that.

Maybe those wireless phone extensions need a "real" phone line. On ISDN the the ISDN TE simulates a phone socket for POTS equipment. It isn't quite the same as a real phone line.

shabbyroad

I must admit that I suspected that might be the source of the problem however I have tried a regular telephone on the wireless extension and it works as expected.

Between the Eircom ISDN box I'm using an Eicon ISDN TA and my phones run from the POTS sockets on that device.

I have a sneaking suspicion that this is a wiring issue (as per this thread in net/comms ... I didn't think it was suitable for this current thread/forum).

watty

The Eicon TA with POTS?

How many pots sockets has it got?

I installed a few Teles TA with four POTS that worked as baby alarm, small pabx etc etc and were cheap. Too good and too cheap like all the other German Teles stuff. They went Bust.

shabbyroad

there are two POTS sockets on the Eicon TA - one of them is available so I might try that... there's two sockets on the Eircom box so I'll check those too.

I'm still convince that it's a cross-wiring problem with the BT socket on the wireless extender though.

watty

Some modems to suit UK wiring *AND* everyone elses wiring use pin 2 and 5 as well as the USA/Ireland pin 3 and 4
(Pin 1 and 6 are empty at outer edge).

So sometimes to get a modem or fax to work in Ireland, you need to clip through the two outer wires in the 4 core fleg with RJ11s on it. (pin 2 and 5).

A "Straight" crimp btweeen BT jack and RJ11 is 2 and 5, two outer wires active. So a "proper" RJ11 to BT Jack cable has the two inners at one end swapping with two outers at BT end.

Regualar USA/Ireland uses the two middle pins (3,4).

Beseq in Israel solved this problem (and created a new one) by using BT jack plugs, but the two inner pins so a straigght crimp to RJ11 works. This means of course that UK phones physically plug in in Israel (Unlike here) and don't work.

Additionally a capacitor needed to make the phone ring is NOT included in BT standard phones but in the BT master jack socket. So if a BT phone is wired with two outer wires to two inner pins on Irish RJ11 or Bezeq version of BT jack, the phone can be used to call out and works if you lift it when "ringing" but it never actually rings unless the "master jack" capacitor is added someplace.


So if getting "Wireless" phone extensions or even just a phone or modem or fax, make sure it is not specifically *only* for BT standard system or there will be problems, possibly even after you sort out the wiring.

So a cable with only two wires in it not four if it works will work (the extra two wires are for anti-tinkle on mechanical bells aon multiphone extensions using Pulse Dialing, so with "bleepers" for rinngerers and DTMF tone dialling the extra two wires are just a potential problem).

shabbyroad

have been working on this most of yesterday evening and basically as far as I can see it's something to do with the Thompson wireless adaptor and how the modem in the Digibox understands the signal on my phone line.

I've managed to get a connection (dial tone) using a Telephone and the wireless adaptor but when I connect the same cable to the Digibox it indicates that a phone line is connected. The problem is when I go through the new installation menu and get it to callback - it indicates that the line is busy.

I'm off to Maplin to see if there's any other adaptors I can use. They've got similar wireless adaptors but I'm reluctant to spend 100euro+ if I can sort it out myself using this free set of adaptors.

I wonder if there's an internal connection on the adaptor set that is causing the digibox to become confused....

watty

If you have a meter, measure the voltage on the two wires (inner two pins on the socket of the Thomson that the Digibox plugs in.

The simplest way to decide if a line is in use is measure the voltage.

Real phone lines are 20V to 50V when no phone handset is lifted (on hook) and drop to about 6V or less when you lift a handset (off hook).

If the Wireless adaptor voltage is 12V to 18V on hook, almost all fax, modems, phones etc will get enough power to operate (as the current, not voltage is important "online", so dropping even to 5V is no problem, but the digibox or other modem may think the line is in use (or disconnected).

I'd like to know what DC volts the Thomson outputs (when nothing plugged in and optionally when a phone is connected, but handset not lifted).

If you havent got a multimeter they are down to €4 at times or less.


If the Thomson socket to Digibox is less than 9V then since it is more than 5V phones etc will work but Digibox will think line is in use.

Two PP3 batteries in series with a 3.3K (3300 Ohms x2 = 6600 total) resistor each in Negative and Positive leads (16V to 18V) connected to the two inner wires will solve the problem if the Thomson "on hook" voltage is too low for the digibox. Maybe even one PP3 (8V to 9V) might be enough if the Thomson is someting silly like 6V "on hook" (which will still allow phones / modems/fax that don't check for "busy" to operate fine).

WARNING
Any external power needs to be isolated and via resistors (At least 2000 Ohm total) to aviod damage or loss of signal. Do NOT connect batteries directly nor use a Power Unit.

d-j-k

We had a Digibox connected to a phoneline supplied from an Eircom ISDN Plug&Play TA and it worked absolutely perfectly.

The ISDN TA will produce a very accurate mimic of an eircom POTS line from its analogue ports. It conforms to all of eircom's standards.

However there are a few issues:

1) If the sky box shipped with a UK style phone plug get a UK - Irish (or US) adaptor (with capacitor) you can pick these up in most phone shops or at Woodies DIY stores for a few quid. Then connect it to the Irish phone line using the adaptor and its original cord. There are a supprising number of wiring issues that can occur thanks to the unique phone wiring system used in the UK. If you use an adaptor and the original cable the modem in the digibox should get what it's expecting and behave like it's plugged into a BT master socket.


http://homepage.tinet.ie/~leslie/testpage/wiring.htm (explains all)

Be aware that despite what the above site suggests that the vast majority of Irish phone sockets are not wired in the master - secondary system even though the older type do contain the capacitors only the centre 2 terminals are active as eircom phones dating back to the late 1970s are all 2-wire (i.e. No bell wire (R) ). Many houses may be wired in a simple star pattern where each socket is connected back to a junction box at the point where the phone line enters the house e.g. in the attic.

The only phones that required the ring capacitor are the big old black dial phones from the 1960s/70s and very few of those ever ended up plugged into a modular socket. However having the capacitor in the socket meant that where an eircom / telecom eireann engineer was adding a modular socket and new phones he could hardwire older rotary dial equipment into the back of the socket. it gives extra flexibility basically but is not used as standard.

2) Don't use that wireless phone extension thing with a digibox. As already mentioned it may not provide a true replica of a phone line. The voltage may be too low and it may not be providing a constant DC feed to the line which the digibox uses to detect wheather it's in use / off hook / connected at all.

shabbyroad

well. looks like it's an issue with the wireless extender.
I took a trip to local eircom shop that sells a "one for all" re-badged version of the Thomson device I'm using. They sell them specifically for use with Digiboxes.

The Digibox sees a phone line connected once I use the correct wiring but when it tries to do a callback during the installation/setup it believes the line is busy. Clearly what you and Watty are saying is correct.

Meanwhile.... I ran the wiring and will investigate it further when I've nothing more pressing to do. (soon as the time troubleshooting the reason why the 'easier' wireless solution wasn't working was fast approaching the time taken to run some basic cable I realised it was time to cut my losses).

crawler

Hmmm....seems like my problem

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=120411