How is this possible on GPRS?

viking

Just got my o2 bill yesterday, here is an excerpt:

Description.........Volume............Amount
GPRS......................9k...................0.08
GPRS......................4k...................0.03
GPRS...................1.13M................8.47
GPRS.....................15k..................0.11
GPRS.....................68K..................0.50

...

I spoke to O2 about the 1.13M I downloaded and they have verified that it came from my phone and my SIM card, but what I would like to know is how is it possible to download 1.13M when the call lasted 3 mins 41s, images are switched off on my phone, and all I was doing was either looking at news/weather or using banking365 ( which is all I ever use GPRS for)???

viking

The Corinthian

Ask them to furnish you with exact logs - URL's.

viking

Originally posted by The Corinthian
Ask them to furnish you with exact logs - URL's.

The girl in customer services said that they don't hold logs - that they wouldn't be able to tell what site I was accessing... :rolleyes:

viking

flywheel

had strange behaviour on a few occasions - but with a dial-up through the handset (from a PC/Laptop) it began racking up the KB on connection even though nothing had been requested (or was running to request any data) - although never with a handset only connection in a situation like yours (WAP on Handset?)

they should be able to open a case to investigate this - to check back though the session to see what traffic was being sent/recieved to determine how they arrived at that data figure (and explain it to you / discover an error)

if you know what you were doing and if it's out of your regular usage pattern they should have offered to look into it further in the first place for you (in an ideal world)

(just in case you were calling the customer care only 1909, try 1740 for internet / wap support)

hope you get it sorted,
BrianG

The Corinthian

I would question that, as it would be far too useful to them for marketing purposes to not record.

Ultimately, I would challange them. It's like being billed for an interantional phone call that you never made - the onus is really on them to prove that you did use download all that much.

Disclaimer: They might let the matter slide or stick to their guns; you never know.

flywheel

Originally posted by viking
The girl in customer services said that they don't hold logs - that they wouldn't be able to tell what site I was accessing... :rolleyes:

viking

not being a legal eagle - how does that standpoint fit into the proposed Data Retention Act?

(sorry for tangenting off your thread viking)
BrianG

The Corinthian

Originally posted by DubWireless
they should be able to open a case to investigate this - to check back though the session to see what traffic was being sent/recieved to determine how they arrived at that data figure (and explain it to you / discover an error)

Apparantly they are saying that they don't log all this information.

if you know what you were doing and if it's out of your regular usage pattern they should have offered to look into it further in the first place for you (in an ideal world)

I would formally request that it is investigated - in writing.

viking

Tried 1740, they said it was a matter for customer care. Just for the craic, I also asked the girl if they kept a log of the site(s) that I may have visted in order to explain "what" I downloaded, but she said that they don't keep logs. So I guess they really don't keep logs...

I think its time to write to customer.care@o2.ie and have this investigated as Corinthian said.

viking

flywheel

hope you get it sorted

from that Data Retention Act statement by the Data Comissioner, if the gov get their way looks like they are going to have to start logging everything:
"In relation to the Internet, traffic data would encompass the e-mail addresses on all correspondence to and from the subscriber, a record of date, time, and size of message as well as other transmission details but hopefully excluding message subject and content. It would also encompass a record of every login session, every web page visited and read, every search term entered, every file downloaded, every purchase made, and so forth - in short, virtually the entirety of one's online "session" but hopefully excluding the content of e-mail messages."


the biggest problem i have with O2 and GPRS is their billing schedule - occasionally on the bill the GPRS traffic is cut off early in the month (e.g ony 2/3 of the month is applied to the monthly bill), and then the next month you get it in one lump (that month + 1/3 of the previous all on one bill) - plays havoc with the monthly inclusive data package

BrianG

flywheel

Originally posted by The Corinthian
Apparantly they are saying that they don't log all this information.

thanks - i read all that after i submitted i promise to try harder / submit faster and not wander off mid post next time - ok

Originally posted by The Corinthian

I would formally request that it is investigated - in writing.

yeah - i wasn't suggesting he leave it and not request it should be investigated - just making a comment it would have been nice if they had been more proactive / helpful

BrianG

viking

I was speaking to a work collegue this morning about this issue and while explaining it I think I remembered exactly what happened which may have caused this issue.

I seem to recall attempting to connect to my o2 WAP homepage, the phone was showing the message "Connecting Via GPRS" and the status bar was moving, this message stayed on the phone for a few minutes (possibly 3 mins 41sec :eek: ), and then I disconnected because I was getting nowhere. Now, would this have caused 1.13M to be downloaded?

If this is the case then I am definitely refusing to pay the charge for this "call"...

I'm due to hear back from o2 today regarding the email I sent them yesterday, so I'll see what they have to say.

viking

Rorshach

Heard a rumour from the wild about a thing called a GPRS overbilling attack. Your GPRS session is piggybacked upon maliciously and you get billed. This may (or may not) be relevant.

:rolleyes:

Rorshach

Some URLs on GPRS overbilling research:

http://news.cnet.com/investor/news/newsitem/0-9900-1028-20853261-0.html

http://lasecwww.epfl.ch/php_code/projects/pro_detail.php?status=ongoing

http://www.checkpoint.com/press/2003/gprs021103.html

http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/Feb2003/4882.htm

Tom Dunne

Originally posted by viking

I think its time to write to customer.care@o2.ie and have this investigated as Corinthian said.

viking

I'd be interested to see if you actually get a constructive response from them. My work mobile is 02 and I was planning a project that would involve heavy GPRS traffic (i.e. money for O2). They blissfully ignored my e-mail and when I sent them an e-mail six weeks later, they asked me for my phone number so they could ring me. How moronic...

(the project went on Vodafone in the end using HSCD)

The Corinthian

Originally posted by viking
I think its time to write to customer.care@o2.ie and have this investigated as Corinthian said.

Use a registered letter - they'll take it seriously then.

Emmo

It would be interesting to see who you contacted. Im not sure if the staff answering email and phone queries would be in the right position to judge the merits of a business opportunity.

Emmo

flywheel

Originally posted by tom dunne
I'd be interested to see if you actually get a constructive response from them...

O2 have a Business Solutions team who would have been a good point of contact to approach directly. I'd agree with Emmo about the front line not being the best place to pitch an idea - unless the question is something the operators (general) customer care can cut and paste back, replies usually doesn't come to much...

atb,
BrianG

viking

Before I remembered the possible incident which may have caused it, I sent an email to customer.care@o2.ie asking them to explain how so much data was downloaded to the phone and I got a response...

Basically they confirmed that the issue has been investigated by our their IT department and they are unable to determine why/how it took 3 minutes 41 seconds to download the information. They did however decide "on this occasion" to credit my account with the cost of the call.

I sent a reply to this mail explaining what I thought may have caused this problem (ie. "connecting via GPRS" problem). I also stated that the counter on my nokia reported less than 500kb downloaded in total (I have never reset the counters), and asked whether this phone reported figure is accurate? I also expressed my concern about whether this might happen again.

They responded by saying that it is not likely that my inability to connect via gprs would have resulted in that amount of information being downloaded. They said the GPRS counter would be a handset feature and would not be supported on the network as an accurate means of determining the information downloaded.

So all in all I have no explaination as to why/how/what was downloaded but one thing is for sure I have absolutely no confidence whatsoever in O2's GPRS service.

For the craic I might pop an email to them quoting the above URLs and enquire whether they have a firewall such as Checkpoints installed to combat GPRS overbilling.

Thanks for the replies,

viking

The Corinthian

Originally posted by viking
Basically they confirmed that the issue has been investigated by our their IT department and they are unable to determine why/how it took 3 minutes 41 seconds to download the information. They did however decide "on this occasion" to credit my account with the cost of the call.

They probably don’t know, or perhaps have even realized/suspect that it may have been a screw up at their end. Either way, it’s probably more cost effective to credit your account than assign resources to your particular case.

They responded by saying that it is not likely that my inability to connect via gprs would have resulted in that amount of information being downloaded. They said the GPRS counter would be a handset feature and would not be supported on the network as an accurate means of determining the information downloaded.

Not likely is legal speak for we don’t know for certain. As for their comments with regard to the handset counter, that is simply their stating that they will not accept any metre other than their own. The handset counter probably is not accurate, as they said themselves, but the difference between its reading and O2’s was so great as to have created doubt in the validity of their own readings.

For the craic I might pop an email to them quoting the above URLs and enquire whether they have a firewall such as Checkpoints installed to combat GPRS overbilling.

Don’t, you won’t make any friends amongst those there who genuinely tried to help you.

Network billing is a logistical nightmare at the best of times (and number portability is about to make it even worse) and all the networks will make mistakes upon occasion (bare in mind, that chances are that GPRS billing is presently integrated into a billing system which is probably a legacy solution that was never built with GPRS in mind).

In short, problems will always arise, but in the end ‘the squeaky wheel gets the oil’.

Glad it worked out for you.

SoundWave

did you check your GPRS data counter on your fone? if you havnt cleared it you can match it up with your data usage that 02 charged you for.

didnt read all of the posts so sorry if youve been asked this already

Rorshach

At least they credited you with the queried amount. Maybe you should have queried more.

But that would be dishonest.....

A result me thinks:)

lotas

useless info: my calculator (Calc.exe) says that to download 1.13mb in 3min 41 sec, you should have been running @ ~ 41kbits/s. thats posible over GPRS. it could happen.