TV3 Reception Quality in Limerick Area

jez

Folks

My aerial reception of TV3 is iffy once in a while. At the moment it gives vertical waves when you first tune into the channel and then usually settles but the reception is also not crystal clear. The reception on RTE1,Net2 and TG4 is crystal clear. It is the new type aerial and its position is perfect as is cabling . Anyone got similar issue??

Thanks

watty

I complained once to RTE about:
1) Low power of signal from Woodcock Hill
2) Poor quality of signals generally.

They are always poor.

Sometimes worse.

They rang back and were very rude to my wife.

If only one channel is bad, try connecting aerial direct to TV and unplug VHS, Digiboxes, Cable boxes etc. As a "built in" RF modulator can cause interference, even if the main ouput is a quite different channel.


Try manual tuning adjustment.

If it still pad then it is TV3 problem (RTE won't tell you anything about TV3).

If problem goes away, add back other devices one at a time to see which needs retuned.

A substandard signal is OK because Cable and MMDS is worse and very few people complain.

jez

THanks Watty

I'd say you are right . I have a Philips Video,Philips Telly, two digiboxes connected up. E.g, when taping another channel, Tv3
will have the waves in it constantly.However,if you tape off TV3 and then play it back the picture is fine?? The telly in bedroom and kitchen is linked to the "main control area" and the TV3 picture on those tellies is perfect. All other terrestrials are perfect all the time.As you say the signal could be slightly weaker..?

Antenna

Jez
Sounds like your TV's tuning might be drifting
Try setting TV3 on another preset (i.e. '7' instead of '3') this could cure the problem if you have an old TV with a worn out button

also
A common problem when people complain about poor TV or FM radio reception is that the complainants can receive the station from more than one transmitter but are not tuned to the one with the strongest signal.

You might for example mistakenly have the tuning on your TV for TV3 set to Maghera, even though Woodcook Hill is the strongest.

Galway

Check my post on TV3 from Cairn Hill, as they seems to be a more general problem??

Mike 1972

Most of Limerick can get a good signal from Mullaghanish (although in some areas Maghera is better) which is a handy alternative to Woodcock

watty

But only Woodcock has the RTE1 and NET2. VHF RTE1 and NET2 is noticably poorer quality (softer).

Sounds like one of Digiboxes or VHS is interfering on TV3.

This can happen even if on very different signals.

Unplug the in and out coaxes on VHS and Digiboxes and plug them inline with boxes off and see if interference goes away.

If interference is fine detail the VHS recording simply doesn't recored it. A VHS does all the vertical detail but about 1/2 to 2/3rds the horizontal detail.

S-VHS record/playback can accentuate detail interference!

watty

Originally posted by Galway
Check my post on TV3 from Cairn Hill, as they seems to be a more general problem??

I think I can get a weak Cairn Hill as I am outside city on higher ground.

Certinally I can get 3 alternate TV3 and TG4 and one alternate RTE1 and NET2 on UHF.

Mullganish, Maghera and Cairn Hill?

Mike 1972

Is there any reasson why RTE1 and 2's UHF transmissions generally give better picture quality than VHF ? (assuming a good aerial setup and no obsstructions) ?

I cant see any technical reason why they should (bandwidth on VHF is identical) other than the UHF transmitters are newer and probably in better condition.

Switching most of the relays to UHF seemed initially a terrible waste of money (and spectrum) however I did find when RTE were on VHF from castlebar the audio quality on both channels and picture on RTE2 were poor although Id imagine porly maintained equipment was the problem ?

Galway

RTE 1 and Net 2 UHF from Cairn Hill are noticeably better than RTE1 and Net 2 from Maghera VHF. Its TV3 on ch 46 thats the pain, stil getting lines , maybe i am over amplifying and hence amplifying noise?

MarkK

This is a site explaining the "rules" for UHF tv channel spacing

"The basic rules are that you cannot use any channel spaced 1,5 or 9 above or below a channel that is in use. "

It's even got a 'taboo' tv channels calculator

http://www.btinternet.com/~diyha/kat5/taboo.html

Antenna

Mike,
"Switching most of the relays to UHF seemed initially a terrible waste of money (and spectrum) however I did find when RTE were on VHF from castlebar the audio quality on both channels and picture on RTE2 were poor although Id imagine porly maintained equipment was the problem ?"

I guess the poor quality was probably due to the difficulties of the output channels of the relay having only one channel separation from the input channels?

The Galway poster mentions interference to TV3 at his location.
Galway, could you take a photo of your TV3 picture and post it up??

Try a different masthead amplifier or try none at all - is the interference still there??

If your masthead amplifier is OK it could be a fault with a masthead amplifier on a nearby house - they can oscillate if faulty and cause interference in surrounding houses too!

About 9 or 10 years ago in the town of Kinsale Co.Cork RTE reception investigation had to trace the source of interference, which was affecting several viewers, to a masthead amplifier at a house which was faulty and oscillating. These masthead amplifiers can 'go mad' if rain gets in and corrodes.

BTW
The Kinsale viewers seem to have had a lot of problems with RTE reception, on another occasion the RTE UHF transposer which services the town had an intermittent fault, it was thought that the transposer overheating in hot weather triggered the problem.

Galway

I was in Lim at weekend and thought the pics from woodcock hill Tv 3 had detiorated. Wonder where they source the signal there?

I am still getting variable TV 3 from cairn hill -plently of signal but those lines

watty

Just changed my aerial last night (to a Wideband quad dipole from a yagi-uda).

Woodcock hill
RTE1, NET2, TV4 are fine
TV3 is "noisy". No interference though. Looks like VHS with "picture sharpness" turned too high.

I've got a big yagi (for group C/D? = green cap), I'll see what picture I get from Cairn Hill.

Cork

In parts or east Cork, TV3 reception can be poor. RTE1, Network2 and TG4 reception can be perfect.

Around Fermoy town - TV3 reception can be a hit & miss affair.

Galway

Hey Watty,

Group c/d is no use for Cairn Hill - channels are 40,43,46.50 i.e group B. At my location with a Triax Unix 100 grB and fringe super gr B masthead amp 26db gain I m having problems - Tv3 is the graniest, Rte1 perfect but Net 2 is now getting diagonal lines. Btx Tv3 from Maghera is crystal clear but does seem to be down using a portable and set top aerial than what it was previously.

Keep me posted. Where does Woodcock hill source its signals - in suspect It may be Cairn Hill.

Mike 1972

"The Galway poster mentions interference to TV3 at his location.
Galway, could you take a photo of your TV3 picture and post it up?"

I dunno if that was ment for Me or "Galway"
I actually live in Belfast most of the time (originally from Mayo)
In most parts of Mayo TV3 is not available (excpt via some deflectors) as its not carried on the Castlebar or Achill transmitters.

Parts of the county can get it from Truskmore (Ballina/NE Mayo) Maghera (South Mayo) or Cairnhill (Claremorris/Ballyhaunis)

When RTE on VHF in Castlebar they actually took their relay feed from Cairnhill. Thus during the regional news experiment (c1993/94 ?) we were treated to news about the "Midlands"

Galway

Mike 1972,

Do you know if the current Castlebar UHF feed is also taken from Cairn Hill? TG4 is the strongest from Castlebar but weakest with TV3 from Cairn Hil where the RTE 1 ch 40 signal seems the most robust.

watty

Originally posted by Galway
Hey Watty,

Group c/d is no use for Cairn Hill - channels are 40,43,46.50 i.e group B. At my location with a Triax Unix 100 grB and fringe super gr B masthead amp 26db gain I m having problems - Tv3 is the graniest, Rte1 perfect but Net 2 is now getting diagonal lines. Btx Tv3 from Maghera is crystal clear but does seem to be down using a portable and set top aerial than what it was previously.

Keep me posted. Where does Woodcock hill source its signals - in suspect It may be Cairn Hill.

Yes you correct. My mistake. C/D is the Clare Tx with only TG4 and TV3 on UHF?

With wideband pointed at Woodcock RTE1, Net2, TG4 are perfect and TV3 noisy. One of may digiboxes geting co-channel.


With the C/D aerial in vertical Cairn Hill and woodcock are poor and higher channels TV3/TG4 fairly good but not perfect.

With the C/D aerial horizontal (21 element yagi), the TV3 is better than with the Wideband quad, and obviously signal level is lower on RTE1/NET2 but 40,43 better and 46, 50 worse than the Quad wide band array. The Woodcock 39, 42 are better on the Qaud than the C/D, but the 39/42 still better on C/D aerial than TV3-45 Woodcock on Quad.

I had a smaller yellow cap yagi (group b?) but all channels are a bit noisy. I have mature 50/60ft trees in line across north path about 150ft from house toward Woodcock.

I'm going to put the C/D aerial back as it reduces noise / channels below 39 picked up allowing 3 to 4 clear channels for local RF modulators. The rest of the RF modulators are above 51. It gives best Woodcock hill TV3 and needs very expert A/B comparison to see slight reduction of signal on RTE1 and NET2 compared with Quad array.

(2x analog Satellite, 1 x S-VHS, 1 x VHS feeding PC satellite card video out, 2 x digiboxes, 1 x other VHS feeds all the TVs as well as the aerial).

The ultimate would be an aerial exactly cut for each channel and four input helical filter units / combiner so *ONLY* ch 39, 42, 45, 49 gets fed to the distribution amp.....

I'm feeding the "shack's" TV Radio system with the C/D yaggi and a vertical for radio into a Televes UHF/VHF mast amp then a home made VHF/UHF diplexer/Power unit to feed =12V to the Televes and split the feed cable for TV/Radio. The Radio feed feeds TV card's VHF radio i/p on two PCs and the TV feed a Samsung VHS. A hybrid 4-way (coils not resistors) splits that to feed 2 x TVs and 2 x PC TV cards.

The main house has no VHF, just UHF and a 4-way amplified distribution amp rather than passive-hybrid splitter.

I'll move the Televes (and it's home made end of cable VHF/UHF splitter) and a VHF aerial to house and feed the "Shack" TV /Radio from the house system.

I want to get Terrestrial TV perfect as I'm going to cancel Sky again soon (When "All Creatures Great & Small" is over!).

watty

I note that "Urlan TV" in Limerick have a disclaimer notice on their nice LCD portable TV:
"Requires external aerial. May require roof mounted aerial"

Limerick isn't exactly a village out in a bog either to have such a poor TV signal.

(IMO Villagers out in bogs pay a TV licence and should get a decent signal too.. At very least RTE should pay your Sky sub if you can't get good reception. It was their idea that Sky charging what ever they want for Irish TV in Ireland was good value for the licence payer).

Mike 1972

"Do you know if the current Castlebar UHF feed is also taken from Cairn Hill?"

Ive no real way of telling. I suspect theyre taking RTE1 and 2 from Cairnhill and TG4 from Truskmore but I could be wrong (I know for a fact that with the possible exception of Today FM the radio services are fed from Truskmore as theres been a couple of instinces of breakdowns at Trskmore affecting Castlebar and Achill)

Galway

I suggest you get a higher gain group B (yellow) for Woodcock Hill. should be perfect if you use a preamp.Or alternatively combine the Wood cock hill Rte 1 net 2UHF channels with the Tv3 and TG4 from Maghera until Tv from your local tx improves.

Btw what what makes is your c/d 21 element? It is Antiference extra gain type?


Try a triax unix 100 gr B for woodcock hill that should not need an amp where you are.

Also can you get the UHF channels from Mullaghanish there? And the Vhf ones too?

What type of aerial are you using for FM radio cos I need to get one put up. Where in lim are you?

Interesting post!

watty

I won't get any good woodcock hill without mast amp as there is a 60ft tree in the way...

Otherwise 6" of wire in aerial socket might do, if Woodcock had enough power.

The Yellow cap aerial is worse for TV3 and better for RTE1. It also picks up too much channels below 39 messing up VHS/old analog Sat RF modulators.

Don't think it is Antiferance.

For FM I'm using a vertical copper pipe via loading coil and 4 x radials to coax screen. The coax inner taps onto loading coils.

It was bottom half of a 5/8 over 5/8 colinear for 144MHz, so none of the parts are the right length. Works better than the usual bit of wire supplied. When I get time I'll readjust lengths for 1/4Wave at 100MHz and 5/8ths at 100Mhz by using capillary pipe joint soldered on to lengthen pipes by 50% ...

A 1/4 wave whip with 4 x 1/4 wave radials on attic joists all made from shorted out coax works well. Hang vertical from peak of roof with thread/string/nylon etc. Cut 5 lengths about 75 cm long and short inner and outer at both ends. connect 4 "radials" lyning flat to Radio feed coax outer and the hung vertical to coax inner.

watty

Patrickswell is about 1/2 way between Maghera / Mullaganish.

I get all the signals from both.. If I want. Woodcock is better.

C5 is best VHF (I forget what the "Letter" is, all my ordinary TVs with VHF tuning scale and the PC TUner incorrectly have numbers rather than letters for VHF)

Galway

VHF ch 05 is Channel E , so that is Maghera. I cant get higher than a 4 element VHF WB yagi up here so will try electrical factors when im down in ballysimon in 2 weeks time. I see loads of 8 to 11/12 element VHF yagis in Limerick area. The larger ones I guess are tuned to Mullaghanish?? and are maybe just channelised channel D?? Loads of log periodics 7 elements too - mainly maghera?? I hardly ever see a 10 element LP but they were made,i think? Few LP here for maghera just those crappy gold coloured 4 element VHF WB yagis.


Down in Rathkeale area seems they can only get signals from Maghera nand nothing from Mullaghanish or woodcock. Wonder where woodcock is fed from??

Which is better on VHF in Limerick area - Maghera or Mullaghanish. As you go down towards tipp town you should be able to get Mt. Leinster - RTE's highest sited tx i think??

watty

I can "open" the Amatuer Radio repeater and sometimes even have a contact to Waterford etc via Mt Leinster repeater with 10W on 144MHz, so I ought to be able to get the TV here if I pointed a VHF aerial that way. (There is a 430MHz voice repeater for Waterford City permenantly linked to the Mt Leinster 144MHz VHF repeater).

It depends where you are in Limerick City. I think in Newmarket on Fergus Co. Clare we used to get Cork (Mullaganish) better than Clare (Maghera) on VHF!

You can just about get Spur Hill 430MHz Amatuer repeater here too. The 144MHz VHF Mullaganish repeater is much better.

I have 1.3GHz and 2.4GHz ATV transmitters/ receivers too. Spur hill has Amatuer repeaters on both these. You can pick up the 2.4Ghz one with a MMDS dish wired direct (remove MMDS LNB/Downconvertor) into a "video sender" receiver perhaps on Channel C, in some of Cork City.


I have a couple of wiper motors I 'm planning on making into aerial rotators and then put a bunch of aerials on it or them.

I'm testing a 2.4Ghz omni for Wifi WLAN with TV on 2.4Ghz this weekend (Ch A to receive on a Video sender). I have Wifi TX / Airpoint on directional aerial pointing North East (killaloe /parteen direction from Patrickswell)
Anyone know why RTE didn't put a repeater or full fledged Transmitter on Keeper's Hill rather than Woodcock?
Surely it would have served Newcastlewest, Shannon, Nenagh and allowed set-top / pocket TVs in Limerick City etc.
With a big array / mast there is a very faint chance I might link into the 1.3GHz.

Galway

yes, keeper would have given better coverage. Isnt that where chorus has one of their MMDs tx? Do they pick up the UK UHF signals from there too? There used to be a deflector system up there too? I think ntl pick up the chorus MMDs Uk signals from Keeper Hill at their Tonabrucky site on western side of city and re-broadcast into their cable head end and MMDS tx for the county there.

Are u on about amateur radio repeaters in ur last post?

watty

Yes, I thought it relevent as the frequecies are
1) Betweeen Band II Radio and Band II TV for 144MHz
2) just below UHF TV for 430MHz
3) just above UHF TV for 1290MHz

Mullaganish, SpurHill and Mt Leinster repeaters are either close to RTE Tx or in case of Spur Hill actually inside the RTE TX compound.

I think Dundalk repeater also is close to TV mast.

Galway and Limerick is a curious exception where RTE seems to be at a worse site in Limerick, and Galway Amatuer repeater seems used less by Galway than the Limerick one. (I often talk to Galway City mobile via Limerick repeater).

Part of the purpose of "experimenter licence" is to show what can be done, it isn't supposed to be an exclusive "CB club".

viewfromafar

Galway, you are quite right about Chorus & deflector from Keeper. It was the first MMDS Tx set up in the country, I think. It was set up in 1989 with 4 channels, my telecoms lecturer was a consultant for Westward Cables/Horizon Distribution and he used to change the content of the channels to suit himself and his family
It is /was Chorus' main Rx point for UHF from Divis and very occasionally BBC Wales - for Barry McGuigan fights !!

PAL Electronics had their wind powered deflector there for a few years also - in these days of Sky Digital and the associated Mpeg artefacts it is amazing at how happy we were with snowy pictures that came and went in bad weather

Galway

Thanks for that info. So can the UK UHF analogue signals be received direct off air at Keeper then?? Bet the aerial receive systemis massive then.from what you are saying, could BBC Wales be received from there too? Bit far Id say to get a signal from Presely some how.

I presume the deflector system up there is no no more? Was the pictures ever any good from there?

Mike 1972

I remember someone telling me that there were deflectors in Cratlow and sixmilebridge as well. Id imagine they fed off Keeper (or maybe Comeragh)

There used to be a deflector in Scarrif Co Clare as well but I think they carried UTV

viewfromafar

At times the pictures from Keeper were pretty good - it could be nostalgia at work here as well as it was nearly 20 years ago

I was up at the top of Keeper about 5 years ago and Chorus still had their UHF array, it was a pretty impressive array of maybe 16 aerials.
A friend of mine in Sixmilebridge was recieving pictures back in the late 80's but the feed was from satellite - I know that they had Premiere the movie channel and I think also the fore runner to BBC Prime but I think there may have been a couple of other channels, pretty sure that the transmission was aimed at Shannon town - I imagine before Westward cabled it

Sorry Galway I have no idea which feed from Wales was used - only ever had BBC1 from what I can recall and no opportunity then to do the reveal on teletext

Antenna

Keeper Hill a.k.a. Slievekimalta in Co. Tipperary (about 15 miles from Limerick city) and the original receive site for cable TV in Limerick. (It would be more appropriate if it was called Keeper Mountain considering its height of about 2200 feet!) It was the first MMDS transmitter site in the country. I vaguely remember seeing something about it on RTE news in 1989, and Ray Burke visiting the area when it was being tested and seeing the wonderful pictures!

Chorus certainly have discontinued using Keeper Hill for receiving signals from Northern Ireland. They are using microwave links down from a receive site nearer the border. I walked up Keeper a few years ago whilst in the Limerick area. (Couldn't drive up due to locked gates!) I saw two separate identical UHF aerial arrays. Each was made up of 16 high gain Group A aerials in a 2 by 8 formation like this:

********
********
However they were bits broken off/in a state of disrepair so did not seem to be used anymore, even for backup. One array was pointing at Brougher (you could see the town of Nenagh beyond another hill in the distance in that direction). The second array seemed to be pointing at Divis. This array was probably a backup in case of a problem at ‘Brougher’ which I assumed was usually the best signal. Both arrays seemed to be on rotate able platforms (long since seized up) to accurately set the aim. Did they really receive Wales there on some occasion for the above mentioned boxing match not carried on BBC NI? It was probably Blaenplwyf rather than Presely. Maybe it was possible to swivel the backup array to point to Blaenplwyf (also Group A as well - 21,24,27,31) ? People in Kilkenny City used receive Blaenplwyf with high-gain aerials before cable TV was set-up there. I suppose Keeper is not much farther on in about the same direction.

I saw the remains of an old parabolic UHF aerial flung down a steep edge of the mountain, maybe this was used by the ‘deflector’ run by a company called PAL someone mentioned that was once there? Did this close when cable TV came to Limerick??

I recall press reports in the Cork Evening Echo of the above mentioned boxing match (1985/6?), it mentioned that people with rooftop UHF aerials "in Munster" (!!!) usually without UK TV would be able to receive it due to high atmospheric pressure!!! well in pockets of Munster this would be the case, but not all of Munster!!!


BTW re. deflectors
I remember visiting Ballybunion (north Co.Kerry) one day during summer 1988 and I recall seeing vertically polarised Colourking UHF aerials on houses there directed at a nearby mountain (Knockanore – later used for MMDS and Radio Kerry on 97.6 MHz). I remember walking into a pub and seeing ‘Neighbours’ on BBC 1 N.I. with fairly good picture quality! I wonder how the signal was arriving to the deflector on that mountain? (It was hardly direct!), I presume linked on from other deflectors. Was this the farthest or most southerly deflector to have carried Northern Ireland TV? This delector was no longer operating when I visited Ballybunion about 2 years later!

watty

Sat night last wasn't too bad for RF. Was chatting on VHF radio with 10 Watts to Dungannon and Portadown. The northern lads had modest aerials and also about 10 Watts. Not HiFi though.

With my new VHF aerial (10 element) I'm hearing West Tyrone Amatuer Repeater (144MHz) most days now. So even with more modest UHF array occassional Brougher Mountain reception may be possible for any site with a "clear" view up the Shannon basin through Athlone from Limerick.

Quote:
"Are you allowed to keep adding aerials to the chimney?"