Future crime prevention plans......

ykt0di9url7bc3

imho Our society needs to learn a valuble lesson...if you commit a crime then expect to be caught.....

until this is achieved crime will be a horrible problem in Ireland...

imho....i suggest a civillian tracking chip
where every person in Ireland has a chip inserted into thier body for means of tracking thier movements across this country.....
(i can hear the screams of personal liberties as i type but hear me out)

1. The chips signal must not be secure and tamper proof....
2. The chip must always be tracking
3 The data of a personal whereabouts should be held under secure...and should be trusted to a security company and be regularly checked and scrutinised
4 Access to the information can only be achieved by court order and under tight regulations
5 It should start with covicted criminals and if proved successful, to irradicate crime the general population my be registered..(over 16 only)

now consider if Mary is walking home and is attacked....by court order Mary's movements could be traced and Mary's attacker seen and identified....

Robbery of a premisis could be follewed up by reviewing the logs of the premisis area for possible intruders....

If a crime has a location and a time.....then the persons involved can be identified....

Although Drug related crime is harder to crack but other ares of crime being takled easier it may give the Gardai more resources to deal with the problem.....

Now Personal liberties is a problem here, could we trust confidentiality in this arrangement, now I am all anti-big brother but I cannot ignore the fact that sexual assaults continue happen in this country....if you are anti-big brother I'll ask you weigh up the options....If you are a law abiding member of society then what do you personally have to worry about it apart from the fact a computer knows where you are and where you have been.....

now the technology may not be available at the moment....

I'm not asking for a cut & paste point by point "quote me and tell me how wrong i am" **** ( i consider that rude and insulting tbh)...I'd just like to hear about other future plans or ideas on how to irradicate crime in our society

Meh

Originally posted by SearrarD
If a crime has a location and a time.....then the persons involved can be identified....

And what if the crime doesn't have a location and a time? And there's a rather large gap between proving that someone was in the area when a burglary happened and proving they're guilty.

I'm not asking for a cut & paste point by point "quote me and tell me how wrong i am" **** ( i consider that rude and insulting tbh)...

You consider it rude and insulting when people don't agree with you? This isn't the forum for you then.

Wook

i just get all these visions of movies flashing by....
if this is a first step, nobody knows what else they would try.
where's the end in all this ?
I find it annoying enough that the so called 'privacy' been invaded time and time again. I can not even pay with my credit card without letting them know what i eat for breakfast, what underwear i use and how much i drink.

Flying to USA, you are screened
applying for a job , you are screened drug tested and sometimes even the IQ they need to know.

it's a dangerous tool to play with , but at the other hand i can see the merrits of such a proposal , i just think we need to be harsher in punishment.

swiss

Originally posted by Meh:

You consider it rude and insulting when people don't agree with you?

I don't believe that's what he meant there. I believe he's referring to a habit some people on this board have of posting a very long quote from another poster, only to rebutt the point with a very short, often succinct answer. Frankly, I'm tired of people doing the same thing, but since it really isn't breaking any 'rules', I'm not really in a position to do anything about it.

I would also be against the whole chip implanting thing. In the present environment, I don't think that anyone can guarantee that the whole process cannot be susceptible to corruption or tampering. Security of the person is a worthy goal, but not at the expense (IMO) of civil liberty.

Sparks

a civillian tracking chip

Before I go off screaming about personal liberties, I'm reminded of the debate in college during my undergrad days. A girl was raped on campus. College said they'd step up security. Following a long campaign by the SU to hire more security guards, the College put up more security cameras instead. So now, if you get raped in trinity, odds are they'll have a nice video of it so you can relive it at your leisure. The fact that the cameras won't prevent it, or help catch the rapist seems to have been forgotten.
Your "tracking chip" is the same idea. It'll happily show where you were attacked, but it won't stop it or help catch the criminal.
Or did you think that criminals wouldn't yank the chip out as a first step?

Now,
[scream]PERSONAL LIBERTIES![/scream]

ykt0di9url7bc3

Thx for reading & understanding what I posted Meh...good lad...



imho Our society needs to learn a valuble lesson...if you commit a crime then expect to be caught.....


If we can achieve this crime would fall dramatically...as sparks suggested, cctv is extremely effective in the inner city and it is a point i overlooked... but you cannot always see the cameras or know they are there....if each individual knew that he would be certainly caught for what he done then it would deter most would be attackers....again crime prevention is what i'm aiming at here with my idea

I was hoping to that the chips would be alarmed/tamper proof in some way...i really cant say how...it is only idea i'm proposing

Trebor

stick it in the neck and attach it to your spin so that if you try to take it out you criplle yourself

it sounds good but it would have to be very strictly controlled

[edit] btw you can be tracked at the moment by your mobile by the companies and i believe the cops can request to use it to find someone (well find their mobile anyway ) [/edit]

tribble

Deutchland, Deutchland uber alles....

1. The possiblility of MASS abuse of this system is HUGH. Remember that NO sucurity sustem is impegnable, so even one breach of security here would cost the populace their freedom.

2. This system would track the moral majority. The criminals would simply circumvent the device. This argument has been used before in the encryption arena. Simply banning an incredibly useful tool as encryption would not stop the criminals form using it. I the case of the chip your eradication of freedom of movement is not going to stop the criminals from moving freely.

it sounds good but it would have to be very strictly controlled

3. Strictly controlled !?! by who? our government? You woud trust the Charlie McCrevey's, the Haughies of our island with this tool:rolleyes: , Giving them the ability to target their personal or political (non-subversive) enemies will lead to a fachist regime of proportions never before seen. How could you ever defeat them in elections?

[edit] btw you can be tracked at the moment by your mobile by the companies and i believe the cops can request to use it to find someone (well find their mobile anyway ) [/edit]

This is true, and a very worrying development especially as vodafone (among others) have been less than cooperative in releasing the details of what records they keep (you would like you're business phone calls recorded and dissemiated to the world at large?

(sorry if i seem disjointed, its just that i get so enraged when i hear the musings of the next generation of uber fascists.)

tribble

gandalf

Yes in a perfect world it sounds like a great idea, unfortunately we live in Ireland with crooked politicians & (some) dodgy gardai. Something like this would be abused.

"Oh look Mr. X is having an affair, lets use that to our advantage.." (just one example!)

Also bear in mind technology can be circumvented, disabled or the chips signal can be blocked, and the scumbag will be able to murder/rape/rob someone and all the authorities will be able to do is track the victim not the perp.

Sorry what is needed to help resolve the current crime problems is more Gardai on the beat. And the only way thats going to happen is if we get rid of the current mob of political criminals in Leinster House.


Gandalf.

Sparks

as sparks suggested, cctv is extremely effective in the inner city

Actually, I specifically stated that cctv is of little to no benefit and takes resources from actual gardai or security guards, and as such is a really bad idea.

I was hoping to that the chips would be alarmed/tamper proof in some way...i really cant say how...it is only idea i'm proposing

Sorry for seeming curt, but my fingers are sore from typing, so I'll just link to the post on this forum where we're discussing this specifically.
Suffice to say, it's a bad, bad, bad idea.

btw you can be tracked at the moment by your mobile by the companies and i believe the cops can request to use it to find someone (well find their mobile anyway )

Not to any great precision. Your cell can be identified, but that's a geographical area, not an actual position. It's the database now being maintained for the cops of all the data on your phone calls that worrys me more - mainly because it's been around for a year without anyone letting us know about it.

tribble

Not to any great precision. Your cell can be identified, but that's a geographical area, not an actual position. It's the database now being maintained for the cops of all the data on your phone calls that worrys me more - mainly because it's been around for a year without anyone letting us know about it.

With a single cell you can be accurate to a distance radius of the cell.
With two cells you can narrow that to an arc with much improved distance estimation.
With three you can triangulate accuratly (within 164 feet for 2nd generation phones, 3rd generation is almost gps accurate)
here

also here for a commercial application of the tech

of course the good ol US of A are way ahead of europe in civillian tracking to the point where they actuall have "Federal Communications Commission's E911 " a regulation ensuring that all phones MUST have this tech

tribble

Hobbes

great idea SearrarD First thing I'd do is find a way to clone your signal onto my chip and go out and kill loads of people.

did you see minority report? They used retina scans (which is a probably a lot less messy) and I personally dont want that kind of advertising.

Imagine, you've just been to the doctors to get treated for the clap, and the advert on the way into work looks up your information then trys to sell you cream by screaming out your name.

ykt0di9url7bc3

/me cries

If it was tamper proof....I talking about the idea...jesus i know that there is a no real chance that it is tamper/abuse proof...it was just a wild idea in all fairness

bonkey

Originally posted by SearrarD
now the technology may not be available at the moment....

And by the time it is, society will have changed so radically that any discussion we have on the issue (which will be based on today's socio-political environment) will be completely irrelevant.

jc

bonkey

Originally posted by SearrarD
it was just a wild idea in all fairness

Maybe you should have taken it to the Science Fiction / Fantasy board instead then

Seriously though...if you're gonna suggest discussing the impact of an ostensibly impossible-to-realise idea, you have to expect that the first thing people will do is say "can this happen".

If it can't then why limit ourselves to reality for the rest of the discussion either? I mean...I could propose that Orbital Mind Control Lasers would be a far better solution, and this could degenerate nicely into a game of Illuminati

jc

<edited cause I cant spell fnord right>

Victor

So what is a foreign tourist committed a crime?

Perhaps we should concentrate on tackling the everyday crimes that can be seen with our own eyes first.

ykt0di9url7bc3

point taken bonkey

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Trebor

Originally posted by Victor
Perhaps we should concentrate on tackling the everyday crimes that can be seen with our own eyes first.

the problem is that people see crime every day and do nothing about it.

I knew some one who was being mugged on O'Connell street in broad daylight on a weekday and as you know there are a lot of people around there and not even one of them tried to help her they stood there and watched. so how can we stop crime if we stand by and do nothing?

Morpheus

I think tagging is a worthy cause,

however again with civil liberties in mind, not such a good idea for civilians... :rolleyes:

I agree with this point tho... i would be totally behind tagging all criminals whove been sentenced with a crime, especially those who are known to be repeat offenders and thos who have comiited brutal assaults, or sex crimes. :mad:

One Minority Reportish idea to get over the tagging being removed.... the technology exists to monitor your hearts bio-rythm, everybody's is unique, so match the tag to their hearts bio-rythm and make it send a signal if its tampered with in any way, and of they simply try to stick it on someone else, or remove it, you'll know. :ninja:

my 2 cents

Sparks

For those thinking this is a pipe dream (pipe nightmare?) :
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/05/16/0449249&mode=thread&tid=158&tid=126&tid=99

vasch_ro

Here's a wild idea for the future prevention of crime,
employ judges who will actually use the mandatory 10 yr sentance provided for under the mis use of drugs act

Here's another wild idea when a sentance is handed down
make sure the full term is served

heres another wild idea end temporary release from prison (remember that girl that was on release to learn to drive and escaped ?)

here's another wild idea make a life sentance for life

How will this prevent crime I hear you ask, well most criminals are recidivists , its mainly the same people doing crime over and over and over again

Sparks

More wild ideas:
Build sufficent prison cells that minors who have been convicted have places that they can be sent.
Create a proper mental heath systems, preferably one that doesn't give Amnesty International kittens.
Create a proper drug addiction treatment system.

Victor

Originally posted by vasch_ro
Here's another wild idea when a sentance is handed down
make sure the full term is served .... here's another wild idea make a life sentance for life

So what incentive is there to these people to better themselves in prison. For example a person on a life sentence could kill someone in prison and not be punished for it, because well, they would only get another life sentence.

Jake303

Wasnt there something in the papers this week about the traffic cameras not working properly due to funding shortages or a lack of man power ?(didnt read the whole article)

But were all gonna have computer chips put into us and our movements tracked.....................



Actually Im not laughing at your suggestion mate, but to think that Ireland could actually organise such a scheme and make it work properly even if the population agreed, thats what I find funny about the idea

Sparks

Wasnt there something in the papers this week about the traffic cameras not working properly due to funding shortages or a lack of man power ?(didnt read the whole article)

No, you're thinking of an article that stated that only three GATSO cameras in Ireland are working at any one time.
As I recall, it was allegedly being done for some financial reasons that weren't strictly above board.

vasch_ro

The point is there only has to be three real camera's because you are still going to slow down coming up to the camera , the driver does not know whether it is real or not.

I think it is generally accepted that prisons are spectacularly unsucessful at rehabilitating people , the point I was making about a life sentance being for life was what about keeping society safe from these people surely that must factor into the equation ??.

When people go to prison especially when they are younger they meet more criminals and learn their trade and make contacts in the criminal fraternity,

it is a status symbol for the younger criminals to be seen outside the childrens court in Smithfield you can see they them there all hangig around outside the court during the week