Irish Internationals on SKY and RTE

ghostds9

Hi

A Report in yesterdays Irish Times with the headline Govt 1 - Sky 0 said that Irish International matches would now have to be shown on Irish Terrestrial television. I think that RTE should not be allowed to get these matches because they had there chance before and failed to reach an agreement with the Fai over how much they should pay for the rights. I suppose I should sound grateful for the fact that the Goverment went ahead got matches back on Free to air television but I'm not. RTE's coverage and post match analysis is crap to put mildly. Sky Sports do a much better job and anyway most people who watch the games go to the pub with friends. So in closing I never had a problem with Sky Sports having exclusive rights to the games.

osullima

Well I don't think you should have to pay Sky to watch an Irish home game live. Getting ripped off as it is!! What do you think the English would say if a French TV company bought the rights to all England home games?

irishgeo

sky coverage is dross. i mean every game is a great game. despite it being a 0-0 with no excitement.

aslo rte coverage is ok espcailly if dunphy is a panelist.

if you want real commentary you should listen to alan green.some people hate him i think he is the best around.

thats the one disadvantage of the bbc going fta we will miss out on the interactive 5 live commentary.

Tony

I taped sky's coverage as I go to all Irelands games and I have to say the commentary is brutal, Frank Stapleton forever drifts off into meaningless meanderings.

Tony

Originally posted by ghostds9
Hi

A Report in yesterdays Irish Times with the headline Govt 1 - Sky 0 said that Irish International matches would now have to be shown on Irish Terrestrial television. I think that RTE should not be allowed to get these matches because they had there chance before and failed to reach an agreement with the Fai over how much they should pay for the rights. I suppose I should sound grateful for the fact that the Goverment went ahead got matches back on Free to air television but I'm not. RTE's coverage and post match analysis is crap to put mildly. Sky Sports do a much better job and anyway most people who watch the games go to the pub with friends. So in closing I never had a problem with Sky Sports having exclusive rights to the games.

rovingrover

I agree that Sky's coverag eof Irish game sis poor . Frankie was agreat player but.... They're premiership coverage is totally different.

However I have a huge issue with this because the government are handing these games to RTE on the cheap. They will make huge profits from showing the games and the F.A.I. will have a fraction of the money they would have got from Sky to plough back into the game here. Football is going to subsidise the dross they normally import.

Tony

Rover whats your excuse for missing Georgia/Albania?

Originally posted by rovingrover
I agree that Sky's coverag eof Irish game sis poor . Frankie was agreat player but.... They're premiership coverage is totally different.

However I have a huge issue with this because the government are handing these games to RTE on the cheap. They will make huge profits from showing the games and the F.A.I. will have a fraction of the money they would have got from Sky to plough back into the game here. Football is going to subsidise the dross they normally import.

ShaneOC

Originally posted by irishgeo
thats the one disadvantage of the bbc going fta we will miss out on the interactive 5 live commentary.

Why do you think this will change?

As far as I know, the only change that we will see is that we will be able to add all of the BBC channels in the Other Channels section. BBC1NI and BBC2NI will remain where they are for us and we should have no problem accessing BBCi.

tomED

Im sorry but one of the most annying commentators or commentators little in the business friends is Niall Quinn!!!!!!

Frank annoys me, but Niall - feckin hell he is a motor mouth!!!

Every time the commentator takes a breath he is in there saying something and its usally something he has repeated 10 times already!!!!!!

But that aside - Sky's coverage of the games have been extremely poor. I never thought Id hear the day when I would say that I would prefer to listen to george hamiliton than an english commentator!!!! But that day has come.

Even though I invested in Sky only becuase they bought the Irish games, i still think its great that RTE can get it back - however, i do think that they should pay more money than they intially offered for the rights for the games. At the end of the day the FAI have to make money....

Like if we thought that irish football games being televised on Sky was going to damage the sport.... think again about how lack of money will......

ghostds9

What’s the problem with a bit of competition, sure if we didn’t have competition when the premiership was created we had the BBC or ITV the showing games. Look point is that Sky Sports have made the premiership more attractive to the viewers. Yes I agree that Nail Quinn is boring. But who was to say that things would not of improved. Sky Sports has always made improvements. RTE always go crying the government when things are not going there way. RTE will now get the games on the cheap and Irish football we lose out on the money it should of got from Sky.

tomED

Dont get me wrong - sky have done an amazing job with the premiership, i fully agree there. Its hard to imagine the premiership without sky...

Correct me if im wrong - wasnt the premiership established the same year that sky took control???

The only problem i had with sky was their coverage of the irish games.

I guess its because the games werent inportant to the commentators - when as george hamilton is irish and you can feel his patriotism when ireland are playing.

dmeehan

RTE will not neccessarily (sp?) get the irish matches, TV3 can also be awarded them. I think it will the highest bidder of the two


Is TG4 considered a seperate entity to RTE?

Genghis

I find that Sky do a top job on Premiership games, and a poor job on anything else. For example the first division games are always flatter, even last nights play off was not so great. They wheel in undistinguished presenters, analysts and commentators. Same is true of Worthington Cup, etc.

If the Irish games were on both RTE and Sky, I'd definitely watch RTE.

DMC

I think what has plagued Sky's coverage of the Irish team, is that its clearly not aimed at an Irish audience.

You could go down the twee route, play a few bits of trad etc etc. RTÉ, or for that matter TV3's coverage never go that way, they know the audience better. No need to patronise.

But the main thing is the presenters and commentators. I'm not going on an anti-English rant or anything, no no. What I mean is, this is the national team, it should be covered by a national broadcaster, national commentators etc. If they had bought George Hamilton, for example, the coverage wouldn't look as bad. Give us a feel in your broadcast that this is an Irish game, not some 2nd Division match.

Sky's coverage of the internationals would be soooo much enhanced if they used people who are not just "assigned to Dublin to do their big game"

rovingrover

Will be there as usual for the home ones - couldn't do Georgia away as 'er indoors would have killed me if I'd gone for a week - did book 2 idfferent day trips to Albania and had the last one cancelled a week beforehand.

Originally posted by Tony
Rover whats your excuse for missing Georgia/Albania?

Tony

Originally posted by rovingrover
Will be there as usual for the home ones - couldn't do Georgia away as 'er indoors would have killed me if I'd gone for a week - did book 2 idfferent day trips to Albania and had the last one cancelled a week beforehand.

You did not miss much apart from serious hassle getting in to the game, brought back memories of Heysel.

jmcbride

Being Scottish (for my pains), I guess I'm not really that concerned whether RTE or Sky cover ROI games, since I'm unlikely to watch them too closely anyway.

Having said that, if the Norway game is anything to go by, it must surely be quite nice to finally have Irish games in widescreen, home games at least.

DMC mentioned above that he would like to have national broadcasters, commentators, etc., covering national games, and I think that's a perfectly valid point. It's a bit sad, to say the least, that the FAI should go for the big bucks in such a naked way by selling primary rights to a foreign broadcaster. On the other hand, I don't think you can criticise Paul Dempsey as frontman for Sky's coverage, as he seems to be a good Anglo-Irishman. On Soccer AM a few months ago he was asked about his favourite moment on Sky Sports, and picked an ROI game, speaking very much as though they were his national team.

remoteboy

they are - isn't he an ex-pat?

DMC

They have an almost entirely Scottish team for the Scottish games, why not for Ireland??

Mossy Monk

it is outrageous that the government have done what they have. if anyone should show live games on terrestrial television it should be TV3 seeing as they had the games delayed. RTÉ don't have a clue when it comes to presenting a live soccer game. i'm not condoning TV3's miserable attempts either. i'll be sticking to Sky

Darby OGill

Well George Hamilton must be a damn good commentator if people can hear an Ulster Presbyterian's patriotism for the Republic's soccer team coming through................

I like George by the way.

Tony

Originally posted by Darby O'Gill
Well George Hamilton must be a damn good commentator if people can hear an Ulster Presbyterian's patriotism for the Republic's soccer team coming through................

I like George by the way.

He's a good piano player too:D

bucks73

While Quinn and Stapleton are brutal, Dempsey (who is Irish) and Houghton arent that bad at all. It is definitely lacking someone like Giles or Dunphy.

On the rights issue it is my understanding that if the FAI think any bid from a national broadcaster is too low they can go to arbitration. The arbitor may then rule in favour of the FAI and they can accept the highest bid from any TV company.

IMO Sky should be allowed compete on a level playing field for the rights as it is the FAIs product to sell.

Someone else asked earlier how the English would feel paying a French TV company for their internationals. But they are already paying Sky for theirs. English home games are not on FTA TV.

DMC

I have no problem with Dempsey and his Irish-ness. But over the years on Sky Sports, outside of boxing, we have seen him as a stand in presenter, i.e. if someone is ill, he'll present the game. I have seen him stand in for Richard Keys and Marcus Buckland over the years. So, with the greatest of respect to him.... it looks second rate to me. He should get more exposure, on his own right.

Sky have their presenters very much pidgeon-holed, so if you do see them doing extra curricular activites, you know like they are only filling in. The BBC and RTÉ mix up what their presenters present from time to time, to keep their presentation more lively, I feel.

DMC

Originally posted by bucks73
Someone else asked earlier how the English would feel paying a French TV company for their internationals. But they are already paying Sky for theirs. English home games are not on FTA TV.

No, they are FTA. Currently, the BBC share the rights with Sky for the home competitive England internationals. Sky show all the friendlies exclusively live, the BBC show highlights.

jmcbride

Originally posted by DMC
I have no problem with Dempsey and his Irish-ness. But over the years on Sky Sports, outside of boxing, we have seen him as a stand in presenter, i.e. if someone is ill, he'll present the game. I have seen him stand in for Richard Keys and Marcus Buckland over the years. So, with the greatest of respect to him.... it looks second rate to me. He should get more exposure, on his own right.

That's a little unfair to him, since as far as I know, he has always been the presenter for Irish internationals. If Sky picked a different presenter at random for each international, or gave the gig to Tim Lovejoy (for example), then I would agree with you on this point. But not in this case.

It's alway the utility players who get least respect...:D

DMC

Oh no, I wasn't blaming him, I was blaming Sky's system. They have their relief guy doing Irish internationals, which to me sums up their coverage.

rovingrover

I think George is fine for Internationals and a good commentator. He knows his stuff.

I just wish himself and Jim Beglin weren't so partisan towards Man utd. remeber George not everyone watching you is a Man u fan. George himself is an Arsenal fan too which makes it more surprising. Even Andy Red on Sky is more impartial. Ditto for Jim Beglin and he played for Liverpool.

RTE really wins on the analysis side as Giles & Dunphy are very good and know the game.

johnnyq

Is what the government illegal under EU law ?

Genghis

Originally posted by johnnyq
Is what the government illegal under EU law ?

Quite the opposite, in fact. I can't recall the actual details, but there is EU protection for events of national significance being available FTA in member states. It was this EU directive that prompted the government to move so swiftly and confidently.

BTW - if Sky offered an ROI 'opt-out' on Sky One, so that it was Free to air on all packages and platforms for the duration of the match, do you think they could get involved with the bidding vs RTE and TV3.

Secondly, have they retained UK rights for the games (or can they retian these seperately, given SkySports is available here). If Sky were smart they could actually save themselves cash and achieve a similar net effect:

1. Negotiate UK-only rights for ROI competitive games(at a knock-down price - who else would buy them? Eurosport, maybe)

2. Bid against RTE and TV3 for Irish rights (again at a knock-down price given their respective budgets and against the earlier deal).

3. Broadcast simultaneously on Sky One ROI and Sky Sports

The net effect would be Sky paying two much smaller contracts, versus one collosal contract.

dmeehan

but if they didnt get hte irish rights would they still be allowed to broadcast the games on ss1 in ireland?

DaveH

As Far as I know Sky have not lost the rights for the matches. The Home matches vs Albania and Georgia are still listed on their website. The law is, That if an Irish sport is not fta on Irish T.V, than an Irish broadcaster can take an injuction out and get it broadcasted on FTA tv, but the Irish broadcaster has to pay market rate, if they cant agree then it goes to arbiration. The FAI said they do not believe RTE will pay market rate, as they have always got the easy option on these issues in the past. Another question has to arrise, who will make the production of these matches, as under the deal Sky carry the production. That was part of the FAI reasoning for going with SKy as they say there is an imbalance as TG4 and TV3 do not have the facalities for such a production, leaving RTE as the only player in the market.
I posted here a month or so ago, but no one replied, the Evening Hearld reported that Sky were going to sue the government over the law, because it was written after there contract took effect. Anyone else hear this, or is it more Rubbish from the Evening Hearld.
In reality I would believe this is true, as Sky have taken on bigger fish then Bertie Ahern, and from all my dealings with them, they are to professional a company, not to research all that info, before the contracts were drawn up.

Also in fairness to Paul Dempsey, I think he's a good guy, I still have on tape, him commanting on the Ireland mathces in 1990 World Cup for (the old) Eurosport. I noticed that too, He presents the Ireland matches, and if anyone remembers he always used to present Steve Collins fights!!!! He's always wheeled out for Irish stuff.

Tony

Originally posted by DaveH
In reality I would believe this is true, as Sky have taken on bigger fish then Bertie Ahern, and from all my dealings with them, they are to professional a company, not to research all that info, before the contracts were drawn up.

In my experience they are the most unprofessional comapny I have ever dealt with, bordering several times on illegality in thier business dealings.

Tony

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by DaveH
he always used to present Steve Collins fights!!!!

he does all the boxing on Sky Sports. very good he is too

fisty

Originally posted by Tony
In my experience they are the most unprofessional comapny I have ever dealt with, bordering several times on illegality in thier business dealings.

Tony

can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs.

You're the eggs.

Tony

Originally posted by fisty
can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs.

You're the eggs.

Really, thanks for sharing that opinion

Genghis

Originally posted by DaveH
As Far as I know Sky have not lost the rights for the matches. The Home matches vs Albania and Georgia are still listed on their website. The law is, That if an Irish sport is not fta on Irish T.V, than an Irish broadcaster can take an injuction out and get it broadcasted on FTA tv, but the Irish broadcaster has to pay market rate, if they cant agree then it goes to arbiration. The FAI said they do not believe RTE will pay market rate, as they have always got the easy option on these issues in the past.

In todays Sunday Business Post, it reports that there is still a deal in place (value €5m) with Sky for the International rights for the Irish series of internationals. Therefore Irish viewers will see the games on Skyas well as FTA.

Fran Rooney is expecting RTE to pay in the region of €300K for each game (or €3m for the contract) - which covers nine games, over 4 years? The article (linked below) is not all that clear, but my reading of it is that RTE originally offered €1.6m for the series, the FAI were unhappy as RTE paid €2.6m for the previous 4 years, and this is where Sky steppedin with the €7.5m. So it seems RTE will end up paying almost twice as much as they orignially offered, and something less than half what Sky were going to pay.

It seems the €5m international deal with Sky must've been outside the €7.5m deal, as Rooney claims he can make up the difference by selling other packages (youth games for €1m to Sky), and by receiving grants from the irish Sports Council etc.

Originally posted by DaveH
Another question has to arrise, who will make the production of these matches, as under the deal Sky carry the production. That was part of the FAI reasoning for going with SKy as they say there is an imbalance as TG4 and TV3 do not have the facalities for such a production, leaving RTE as the only player in the market.

Good question, will Sky be interested in production when they have only bought international rights? Would RTE be interested, seeing as they now have to pay twice as much as they wanted to?

Also, it seems clear to me that RTE were well aware of their 'effective monopoly' of 'producer/broadcaster' and were hoping to take advantage by offering the €1.6m contract in the first place.

Originally posted by DaveH
Also in fairness to Paul Dempsey, I think he's a good guy, I still have on tape, him commanting on the Ireland mathces in 1990 World Cup for (the old) Eurosport. I noticed that too, He presents the Ireland matches, and if anyone remembers he always used to present Steve Collins fights!!!! He's always wheeled out for Irish stuff.

Did Paul start with RTE or was it with UTV. And when Sky Sports started out wasn't he the anchor presenter for all football? I think he recognises his Irishness alright, but only slightly more than (for example) Des Lynam. In any case, the Republic are broadly considered a 'home team' to most of the British sport presenters - they are certainly not a 'foreign side' like say France or Germany. Indeed, with our recent success editorial decisions often run 'England, ROI, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland' for team news, results etc on Sky / News / Sports.

And that article: Sunday Business Post 18/05/03

Tony

Originally posted by Genghis
I think he recognises his Irishness alright, but only slightly more than (for example) Des Lynam. And that article: Sunday Business Post 18/05/03

I think he takes it a little more seriously than Des Lynam who almost seems embarrased to be called Irish. Paul Dempsey made a point of getting married here so his relations could go to the wedding.

Tony

Did I hear, in a sleepy haze this morning that rté are in a special sitting with the president of the high court today to actually get the rights?
mm

ShaneOC

Yeah, there was something about Sky having the new two/few (sleepy haze) games and RTÉ want them.

rovingrover

Sky have had the rights to home games for a few years now. What they bought last year were the exclusive rights as opposed to the UK rights which meant Irish people had to get Sky Sprots to see the games. This is all they hav elost.

Sky are probably very happy with the outcome - got the publicity and subs at the time and can now tear up the contract.

The losers in this case are the F.A.I. who won't get a tv contract like that again.

DMC

Hmmmm...... The proceedings begin...

RTÉ begin legal action against FAI
http://www.rte.ie/sport/2003/0519/soccer/rte.html
Filed at: Monday , May 19 2003 11:47AM

RTÉ has begun legal proceedings against the Football Association of Ireland to get the right to televise Ireland's two upcoming European Championship matches against Albania and Georgia.

Last year, the FAI sold the rights to screen the Republic of Ireland's international matches to British broadcaster BSkyB. However, under new legislation passed in April, a qualifying broadcaster can apply to the High Court to obtain the right from an event organiser to provide coverage of a major sports event on free-to-air television.

The details on when the action will be heard are being worked out in court today. BSkyB are a notice party to the proceedings.

Mossy Monk

i would love to see TV3 show the 2 games. RTÉ had their chance to get the rights and lost them fairly

DMC

As I recall, Mossy, so did TV3, but they were quite happy with their cut of the Sky deal. Which to me makes it worse, that they were happy with the situation.

If TV3 were serious about sport, they'd have bid and won the live rights first time round. RTÉ were not the villians in the bidding for the rights last year, they could'nt afford it then. Now with extra licence revenue they could. But it took the FAI shock for the government to give RTÉ more licence revenue. But thats another topic. Sky bought the rights, as by the FAI's terms, they paid the nicest amount. But TV3 were not interested that much in the live rights, and were quite happy to get the terrestrial rights. Which makes me wonder how much they value sport?

rovingrover

RTE could afford the games in fact they couldn't afford not to get them from a commercial point of view. They charge €20,000 for a 30 second advert during live football Internationals.

The highest viewing figures year on year are for Irish International matches with the exception of the Rose of Tralee.

The F.A.I. use the money to develop younfg talent in this country. If RTE get away with this we'll have a lot more Joe Duffys than Damien Duffs in the future.

Tony

A lot more Mickey Joe's than Ian hartes (bad analogy they are both crap)

Tony