Our very own nutjobs...

DeVore

A while ago you might remember I wandered around the net looking at conspiracy theories and theorists.

Now while its fun to point and laugh at the number of kooks who believe George Bush is a 12 foot high blood drinking lizard... its not so funny when its on your own doorstep.

Disturbingly mixing some very serious (and emotive) topics into his conspiracy theories may I present...

http://missingpersons-ireland.freepress-freespeech.com/

One thing that has occured to me is that prior to mass media (and indeed even prior to the internet) there didnt seem to be such public acceptance or promotion of such whacko theories.

In some ways I suppose that you dont have to look very far to find a group of criminally minded people, acting in collusion to control the country. The dail would be a good start!

What do people think here of our own conspiracy theorist? Nutjob? Lone voice of truth? Dangerous? Touched? Brave? Curious?

Personally I find it hard to believe that the people who are supposedly in collusion are the same people who manage to bumble their way through public life and cant balance the country's budget.
Of course thats what they WANT me to think....

DeV.

Borzoi

Please note:

I would like to put on record that I have absolutely no personal knowledge or information relating to human shapeshifting or transformations into reptiles!

I have also absolutely no knowledge of UFOs, Aliens, visitors from another planet or dimension!

Jim Cairns - Editor and webmaster of

The Missing Persons Issue Ireland

Because these nut jobs look down on those nut jobs

Clintons Cat

One thing that has occured to me is that prior to mass media (and indeed even prior to the internet) there didnt seem to be such public acceptance or promotion of such whacko theories.

,probally one of the greatest conspiricy theories,that helped influence A (foriegn)Government policy certainly predated the internet and had widespread public acceptance,namely The Protocols Of The Eldar Of Zion.<<<Link>>>

Eric Van Dankin also stands out with his crackpot theories on the pyramids and atlantis from the pre web days,his books were pretty popular in his day as were those of charles berlitz who wieghed in with stuff about the bermuda triangle and the phillidelphia experiment.Even Area 51 has managed to outlast the Governments admission that that where they were testing stealth equiptment there,"Cause thats what they want you to believe".

I dont really know,the web can be a tool for diseminating these crackpot theories,on the otherhand it can also be a tool for debunking the same said myths,

sanvean

I tend not to pay much attention to conspiracy theorists and the like (except for the amusement factor) especially when they aren't an actual and real threat to our society. For example, the Jehovah's Witnesses have a lot of conspiracy theories, but they stay away from elections, and have no desire to have their views recognised in education etc.

I think I mentioned it somewhere before, but Them: Adventures with extremists by Jon Ronson is a fascinating and hilarious read. Apparently Saddam Hussein was a firm believer in the Bilderberg Conspiracy: that the world leaders were conspiring to enforce golbal capitalism on the world (and other nastier things, like general slavery etc etc).

Sparks

The problem with these wackos is that when you point to the amendment of the FOI act, the introduction of new weapons for the Gardai and their relative unaccountability for their actions, the actions of the government with regard to the shannon issue - well, someone whispers "conspiracy theorist" and a valid arguement gets ridiculed.

DeVore

Bang on the money Sparks. I agree. It provides a convenient whitewash to smear all malcontents with the same brush... even those who genuinely DO have something controversial to say.

I dunno... its an area that has interested me for nearly a year now, must get that book "Them" but after my rantsing having read No Logo, I'm not sure I want to pour gasoline on another fire!

DeV.

sanvean

Hmm. Don't know what your ranting was concerning No Logo, but Them is a very different type of book. It's nearly conversational, and is very very funny. And there's no preaching, which is always good.

Nevyn

the thing is with guy like that do you Sue or ignore.
Yes rubbish like that makes it harder on those who are pagans who have nothing whats so ever to do with Satanism or child abuse or animal sacrifice.

But if There were references to me or mine i'd sue.


As far as I know he has had to remove his hosting twice in teh last year as peolple complained to the company providing his
space and they used the options in thier contract to dissocate themsleves from him.

Clintons Cat

That site It kind of reminds me of that Holly and Jessica site that was trying to insinute a link between the abductions and the nearby US Airbase,last summer.No hard facts just insinuations

:mad:

Karl Hungus

I would like to put on record that I have absolutely no personal knowledge or information relating to human shapeshifting or transformations into reptiles!

Damnit...
I would've really liked to learned how to transform into a reptile.
What a party trick!


But seriously...
This is completely bunk, but he does raise a decent point on America being in the hands of a group of 'Protestant Bigots'.

Victor

The Phillip Cairns Case .... Copyright of Jim Cairns

Perhaps the person is just traumatised by the disappearance of a family member and is obsessing.

DeVore

Originally posted by AngelWhore

But seriously...
This is completely bunk, but he does raise a decent point on America being in the hands of a group of 'Protestant Bigots'.

Does that quote make anyone elses boggleometer explode?

Sit down for a second and think it through...


"The only people I cant stand are those intolerant of others cultures and the *Dutch*!."



DeV

patch

Eric Van Dankin also stands out with his crackpot theories on the pyramids and atlantis from the pre web days,his books were pretty popular in his day [/B]

I'm just wondering if any has read Von Dankins books?
I read a couple of them years ago, and found his views on man's origins a fair bit more enlightniing than the stuff I learnt in bible class

Clintons Cat

Skimmed 'em a few times for a call of cuthulu campaign back in tha day

Also good for an alternative vision of mans history is Climate and the affairs of men by Nels Winkles.Its got graphs and everything

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Executive Steve

missing persons conspiracy dude is wrong it was the husband of my old babysitter who was responsible for the vast majority of all the disappearances in the south east in the last ten years...

erich von daniken i have read... chariots of the gods is entertaining but bonkers.

david icke is great... did you know the anti jewish defamation league really hate him? they keep saying that hes anti semitic and that the lizard references are coded anti semitic texts... to which he replies that no, they are not, its nothing to do with an international zionist conspiracy, it really IS giant lizards ruling the world from beneath the earths crust... genius.... off his bleeding rocker but hey so's george bush....

sceptre

Originally posted by [cm]tyranny
did you know the anti jewish defamation league really hate him? they keep saying that hes anti semitic and that the lizard references are coded anti semitic texts... to which he replies that no, they are not, its nothing to do with an international zionist conspiracy, it really IS giant lizards ruling the world from beneath the earths crust... genius.... off his bleeding rocker but hey so's george bush....

Jon Ronson brought that up during Them as well. he made the point that most of the Americans wouldn't remembere Icke when he was a happy BBC sports presenter. Ronson's pretty sure that when Icke says "lizards" he means "lizards", not "evil Jewish Zionist conspiracy". Sometimes a spade is just that.

lordsippa

I kid you not, but one time this woman walked up to some friends et moi as we were walking along the street. Then she proceeded to tell us that 1/4 of the worlds population was possessed by demons, occultists were after us all, and to pray and stay away from occultism. Oh and that they were gonna raise satan from hell or something like that. Completely crazy... cept she looked perfectly normal. it was ****ed up!

sanvean

Originally posted by sceptre
Jon Ronson brought that up during Them as well.

Ahh, the anti-defamation League. Nearly as crazy as the conspiracy theorists themselves. Does anyone remember in Them (it's either in the book or the television series) when jon ronson begins to suspect that the woman from the anti-defamation league is thinking that he is an anti-semite? In his defence, he tells her he is a Jew, and she says that alot of Jews are anti-semites.

david icke is a loony nut-job, but the anti-defamation in labelling him anti-semitic give him a sort of intellectual respect, of sorts. So, he's not just crazy, but he's one of those anti-semites.

Victor

Originally posted by [cm]tyranny
missing persons conspiracy dude is wrong it was the husband of my old babysitter who was responsible for the vast majority of all the disappearances in the south east in the last ten years..

Would that be the soldier they convicted of one of the murders?

Clintons Cat

A couple of Archived links

Firstly an abridged version of Ronsons meeting with david Icke here part two

And a meeting with Vicky Allen
Sunday Herald

In turning Icke into a cause Celeb Jon Ronson does tend to play down the parts of David Ickes writings that are based on Historical Anti-Semitical Literature.Far from being an obscure reference to the protocols of the eldars of zion "Buried somewhere in the middle of his hundreds of thousands of published words."Anti Semitical references abound.

Ickes Reinterpretation of the "blood Libel".That is the assertation that Jews were involved in the Ritual sacrafice of Germanic Children which is totally and i want to make this clear unrelated to the Lizards predeliction for the blood of Blond blue eyed children And their method of gathering the blood by hanging them upside down and slitting their throats bears no resemblence to the Semitic (both Koshar and Halal) method of Butchering.

Icke also makes the claim that Hitler was the illegitimate heir of the Rothschilds,again a preposterous statement but again one rooted in another Anti Semitic myth that of the "blood shadow" that is the belief that Hitlers anti semitism came about because he was the son of a wandering jewish artisan.

Icke also claims the star of david to be the symbol of the Annunaki lizard race.

Finally one last thought,In the Eternal Jew Goebals described the Jews as being Rats,Hitler was fond of calling them Bacilum and "human syphalis" preposterous veiws worthy of ridicule but are they that far removed from describing people as Lizards?
I am not so sure that they are

Does David Icke really beleive that the world is run by 12 foot blood drinking lizards?
Well i dont think he does,what i do believe is that he is willing to tap into a market for the consumption of Anti Semitical beliefs,wrapped up in psuedo-science.

"Why are these people trying to silence me?" Asks bestselling Author David Icke, Ok david whatever.

Venom

These wackos were always there, its just before the ease of use of the interweb, they were crazy on a local area rather than on an international level

Talliesin

If you look at conspiracy theories through history you'll find that there are only two forms of conspiracy that religious groups are accused of. Most conspiracy theories about other groups are one of these two as well

1. "They" are trying to take over the world
2. "They" are having orgies and eating children

That's your lot!

The most famous and successful case of the first is of course the Protocols of the Elders of Zion which have already been mentioned. Variations of this conspiracy is often used to target individual people or policies; in the Protocols it was the Russian finance minister and a move in Europe away from Aristocracy and Monarchy towards Democracy, in a funny-if-people-with-guns-didn't-believe-it anti-Wiccan version it was Ozzy Osbourne and government "over-spending" (BTW according to the anti-Wiccan one we are behind schedule as we were supposed to have taken over the world by the summer of 1999).
The various forms of the "World Government" conspiracy theory that targets the agencies of the U.N., often directly or by implication linking them with the anti-Semitic accusations of the Protocols are again variations on this.

The second, referred to as the "blood-libel" in its anti-Semitic incarnation, was the primary accusation against witches in the Late Middle Ages, Cathars in the Early Middle Ages, Gnostics when Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire, and Christians when they were being fed to lions. Of course there were other variants throughout that time, and anti-Semitic versions existed from at least the period when Jews were in the sights of the Roman Empire.

While to a rational observation this lack of originality would argue against the belief in any version of either of this conspiracy theories to someone more willing to belief the fact that any version will chime with versions they have heard before. If they remember the other version well then everything will seem to "fit" and an overwhelming sense of the conspiracy they believe is happening will result. If they only half-remember the other version then an even more powerful psychological effect can result leading to the theory feeling right.

Clintons Cat

This is quite a good resource on Bloodlibel religioustolerance.org

The parts appertaining to Blood libel are here here here and here

Theres also a good section on Wicca here


By the way can any one help me out with a word ?

anthropomorphism is the suggesting human characteristics for animals or inanimate things. So what would the oppostite be? IE the Suggesting of animal characteristics in a human or group of humans.

Victor

Originally posted by Clintons Cat
IE the Suggesting of animal characteristics in a human or group of humans.

Lewdness

Clintons Cat

Should have said the Attributing of Animal Characteristics to a Human Or Group Of Humans,IE A Weasel like man,ferret-faced etc.

Closet i can think of is Animalize or dehumanise,but that doesnt quite fit the concept i am thinking about,maybe i should repost this on the english board?

Ok back to Conspiricy Theories,another observable trait of successful (that is those that attain a widespread following)conspiricy theorists is that the ruling polical elite are in collusion with a religious minority/foriegn power to the detriment of the ethnic Majority.

For Example
the political class of Wiemar Germany were branded "November Criminals".
or
In the United States the Survivalists believed Bill Clinton was plotting with the United nations to take away their guns.

sanvean

Originally posted by Clintons Cat
Closet i can think of is Animalize or dehumanise,but that doesnt quite fit the concept i am thinking about,maybe i should repost this on the english board?

Dunno. the Egyptian Gods are called zoomorphic gods, as they are depicted with animal characteristics. similarily, Roman and Hellenistic Gods are called anthropomorphic (and you could also argue that the Christian god is anthropomorphic too). so ...
zoomorphic?

DapperGent

Originally posted by Clintons Cat
That site It kind of reminds me of that Holly and Jessica site that was trying to insinute a link between the abductions and the nearby US Airbase,last summer.No hard facts just insinuations

:mad:

Thats good 'ol Joe Vialls (Private Investigator) nutjob extraordinaire.

http://www.geocities.com/vialls/

Some latest entries in this pantheon of hilarity is the assertion that the Bali Bomb was an Isreali-American plot. Carried out using a micro nuke.

He's actually a bit scary because he can get a head of plausible seeming conjecture up.

His articles on Martyn Bryant and the Port Arthur massacare are truly masterful misinformation and manipulation. Only after digging around for more information on the case are some of his more clever points refutable.

I think he's one of those Queen Nutjobs. The kind that breeds more.

DeVore

I think he's one of those Queen Nutjobs. The kind that breeds more.

LOL...

I think the Internet has become a medium to spawn those nuts faster. Its hard to tell fact from fiction these days. Like Iraq... I dont know what to think because the noise is obliterating the signal.


DeV.

Clintons Cat

Picked up a Reprint Of Charles Mackay's "Extraordinary Popular Delusions And The Madness Of Crowds " Today,for 20 pence

All Kinds of conspiricy theories and irrational behaviour in there including....The South Sea Bubble,Tulipomania,Magnetisers,Fortune tellers, Beard Prohibitions in Bavaria,Crusades,Witch trails,slow poisoners,romanticism of notorious thieves,duels,and relics.

It was First Published in 1841 Seems theres nothing new under the sun

Like Iraq... I dont know what to think because the noise is obliterating the signal.

See according to this story in the guardian,Even Hans Blix is confused...

The chief UN weapons inspector, Hans Blix, said yesterday that he suspected that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction,

He added that "in this respect" the war might not have been justified.

"I am obviously very interested in the question of whether or not there were weapons of mass destruction - and I am beginning to suspect there possibly were none," he said in an interview with the Berlin newspaper Der Tagesspiegel.

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