Residential Wind Turbines

Chief

Lo laeds
I'm in the process of buying a site and building my first home with my fiancé up here in Donegal. We're going the timber frame way and we're going to install a renewable heat pump and all that jazz. We've a lot of wind farms up here and I was wondering would anyone know any companies here in Ireland that would install, fit or even supply home wind turbines and what legal stuff has to be sorted to be allowed to use one. Inishowen is listed as one of the windiest parts of europe so why not harness it for my own families use. http://www.irish-energy.ie seems to have bugger all about home wind power...

Thanks in advance for any info...

Typedef

Probably the best way to go is a mixture of Solar and Wind generator.

Here is a link to a wind gennie that was recommended to me by a fella I work with

http://www.solareagle.com/rutland.html

If you are serious about this you will have to work out how much power you will need each day and then go about generating that power from a mixture of Solar and Wind energy.

Again : You are looking at charging batteries from Solar (ostensibly) and Wind as 'augmentation'.

To get exclusive wind power you would need big Eirtricity General Electric sized Wind Turbines.

Chief

Cheers for the quick reply Typedef m8, we're not looking at completely exclusive generation of power just maybe 50%+ (if that's possible). What solar methods would you suggest as well?
We often get quite high winds up this way so that windseeker model looks quite yummy to.

NOICE ONE!

Typedef

http://www.solareagle.com/windseeker.html

I don't generate my own electricity, however according to my workmate who has had to do a power audit for getting electricity to his house-boat, Solar energy is easier to derive energy from.

If you happen to have a spare five grand.

http://www.solareagle.com/basic.html

This will provide enough energy to operate typical loads such as a
TV, Lights, and Stereo. In addition, the LIBERTY 20 Inverter has
superior surge capacity allowing it to operate larger loads such as
power tools or a microvwave for shorter periods.
*1,500 Watthours / day5 - 10,500 Watthours / week

What you really need to do is work out how much electricity you will consume and then see what sort of system you need to buy.

Solar only, Solar/Wind, Solar/Wind/ESB and so on. From these combinations you charge batteries and run your electricity from that.

PH01

With these things do you need planning permission?

ednwireland

also for some price comparisons try http://www.conrad.de german electronics catalogue but does loads of other stuff including solar heating stuff it's in german though, couldn't afford any of it self. they do ship to ireland and the vat rate is lower (if your not buying it as building matls) they sell batteries (and ac to DC convertors which are useful. if you do go the storage route i remember hearing someone saying that The ESB don't allow you to run off our own stored electricity which if true, doesnt suprise me with the irish gov. enlightened attitude to these things

Capt'n Midnight

Seems to me the greenest way would be to use airticity or such like. Does anyone know how much energy / resources it takes to make batteries and panels / turbines ?

perhaps you should make a pond too - storage for water turbine / heat sink / storage ?

That thing about the ESB sounds strange - If you produce more than a certain amount of power then they HAVE TO buy electriciry from you - but at a lousy rate. However, if what is being referred to regulations preventing you putting power into the grid by accident then that is understandable.

Victor

Originally posted by Typedef
http://www.solareagle.com/windseeker.html

at 500W, it is still a little lightweight and while it would cover average household use, it wouldn't cover peak demand (usually 5-7pm) or heavy heating loads.

Originally posted by PH01
With these things do you need planning permission?

Generally yes, however with the smaller models, you shouldn't have much difficulty getting PP in the countryside, assuming you palce it near your building(s). Putting it away from buildings means adding power cables and is a greater imposition on views, prospects, etc.

Capt'n Midnight

If you ignore line rental / storage systems.

"If you happen to have a spare five grand."
*1,500 Watthours / day

Huh - that's 1.5 KWh - 1.5 units per DAY ~ 15c worth of electricity !

RATES
http://www.esb.ie/main/energy_home/list_tariffs.jsp?tariff=STANDARD
So monthly charge of € 10.75 & 10.75 per unit * 1.5u per day
Yearly €129 Standing charge + €58 of electricity saved...

26 years to break even if you include the standing charge
85 years to save 5k if you don't include the standing charge.

Probably be better off hooking an alternator to an exercise bike.... as a bonus you can't be a couch potato - if you stop peddling the TV goes off

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.eirtricity.ie/frontpage/default.asp

Airtricity is the only 100% renewable energy company in the Island of Ireland. Every €1,500 spent to Airtricity green electricity saves the release of approximately 10,000kgs of CO2 entering into the atmosphere. That's equivalent to taking two cars off the road!

As well as savings to the environment, Airtricity customers also avail of cost savings of up to 5% on ESB daytime rates.

=========================================

Alternatively you could DIY a wind turbine if you already posses engineering skills. Locating Fridges in cold places and using slow cook ovens and fluorescent bulbs and painting the walls white etc. would also be beneficial

Re Ovens - the one at home uses the fan to cool itself down when you turn off the heat. Wish I could get my hands on the designers - makes the room too hot - complete waste of heat - especially if you are using it several times - same shower of muppets also put a clock without any battey backup into it. Has to be some way of keeping an oven warm (200c ?) 27/7 by using good insulation and continual low power input. And using waste heat from other devices to keep its surrounds warmer too.

spongebob

If you use a Heat Pump (Geothermal) system for heating , and have timber frame with EXTRA THICK frame 12" boards instead of 9" which allows EXTRA THICK insulation and then DRYLINE the lot and put load of insulation in the attic and the raft ..........take it from me that your house will be toasty warm anyway.

Make sure yrou have around 8 thremostatically controlled zones on the Inflow Manifold . Use underfloor heating of course. 8 zones are needed so that the heat is distributed well A M8 did that in a 3000 sq ft concrete house, the Heat Exchanger/10 Stats etc cost him €8000 or €9000 from a geezer in Fermanagh. Oil/Rads woulda cost €5000 anyway and underfloor is so much nicer.

Your electricity bill be around €60 a month which will include cooking and lighting and dryer if you have one. The heat and hot water are sorted by the Heat Pump.

A fire is cosmetic not necessary.

€60 a month is €2 (or so a day) I allow for electic cooker family of 3 and no dryer going all day.

€2 a day is around 25 KwH , Solar should so that and Airtricity should do the rest. Never mind a wind turbine

Consider runnning vacumn cleaner and dryer off the Solar when it is on , can you get them with DC rather than AC ?

M

Capt'n Midnight

I seem to remember that working barges on the continent use 24V DC for fridges etc. etc. - check out caravan / boating places as well - but they are likely to be leisure market priced.

Gas powered fridges work off a flame. Is there any way to get them to work on waste heat from other sources ????

Don't get me wrong - wind turbines are good - but no substitute for the mains if available. Guestimate you'd need 2m Diameter to get 1kW peak - so you would need a minor wind farm to power an average house..

To reduce the storage costs anyone know if it is worth looking at old car batteries ? if a 36Ah battery can no longer can supply the 300A to start a car , would it still hold a decent charge if used at 3A ? - Ok you'd have to setup a way of isolating faulty batteries because you would expect to get a lot more failures.

spongebob

I believe that there are DC Fridges and stuff available in the US which ain't a problem seeing as there is only one standard fro DC ....unlike the flavours of AC which are in practised transformed down to DC anyway. You should seesoem of the fridges they have in Camper vans over there,

24v DC is used in some applications.

12V or 24v DC is used in a lot of Halogen lighting installations

48v DC is used in a lot of Telecomms Kit instead of AC.

Pure DC would be good but you would probably need a hardwired DC system and an AC system for night time. Here's an earlier visitation to the concept of the DC house . These guys wanted to do the lot on 12v

This lot are well in tune as well but they live in Deserts and not in Donegal FWIW . Cool spreadsheets in here to help ya plan.

M

Victor

Underfloor heating is now commonplace and heat pumps (reverse of a fridge) are common, especially if you have adequate external space (may not be possible on confined sites).

Originally posted by Muck
A M8 did that in a 3000 sq ft concrete house, the Heat Exchanger/10 Stats etc cost him €8000 or €9000 from a geezer in Fermanagh. Oil/Rads woulda cost €5000 anyway

The real saving is having no recurring fuel costs - simply the cost of running the pump
There are quite a few companies in Dublin that do installations. Make sure your installer is reputable as any leak (rare) under the floor, means a lot more to repairs.

Originally posted by Muck
underfloor is so much nicer.

Underfloor heating typically operates at 26 degrees (they operate over a much bigger floor area than rads) - no more cold floors in the morning. Rads take up floor space and kids have problems with them (burns / banging heads). Floors dry quicker.

With any of these systems, I would recommend some sort of back up (just like you have an electric heater in a gas heated home).

Jaggers

CHIEF

Apologies for jumping on the coat tails of this thread but I am interested in the renewable heat pump

Which system are you using?

Company are you retaining?

Is it expensive?

I am currently in talks with a builder about buying a house. As there isn't a block laid yet, I was hoping to make the house as environmentally sound as possible from the start. As per usual where do you start???? Any info on the renewable heat pump would be appreciated?


Jaggers.