Christian Beliefs....

Washout

Hi,

dont want to really get in an arguement but I have a question.

Christians Believe that Christ is the only saviour that has been and gone that is what is to be christian am i right?.

can some1 explain to me why even Jesus Christ needed to be "baptised" by John the Baptist?

roar_ie

AFAIK John baptised Jesus because of the original sin of Adam and Eve. Because of this sin all people are born with this sin, the sin of humanity if you will. Jesus too, was born with this sin as he was human. The idea a baptisimal is to wash away this original sin in Jesus' case as he did not according to the bible commit any other sin.

Hope this helps
roar_ie

Saruman

Actually that makes no sense... Sorry roar_ie Jesus was supposed to be born without sin as only someone born without sin could pay for ours! If being baptised washed away everyone's sin then life would be a lit simpler would it not?

No we can never have our sins washed away... according to the Bible anyway.. we can only be born again as if we had no sin and thats nothing to do with baptism.. the idea is you are born again first by accepting Jesus as your savior etc.. THEN you get baptised more for formality or ritual than anything else... there is probably something solid behind it though.

Why Jesus was baptised was probably more simple... if Jesus was baptised maybe everyone should follow in his footsteps perhaps?

Washout

it didnt make any sense to me but i didnt really want to get into an arguement.

I just want to understand a christians percepective on this particular issue cause it does nag me alot.

Slydice

I got this from www.bible.com , I'm not sure if it's a proper one but hopefully it is....

Matthew 3

1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, 2 "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." 3 For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah when he said, "The voice of one crying in the wilderness: Prepare the way of the Lord, make his paths straight." 4 Now John wore a garment of camel's hair, and a leather girdle around his waist; and his food was locusts and wild honey. 5 Then went out to him Jerusalem and all Judea and all the region about the Jordan, 6 and they were baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins. 7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sad'ducees coming for baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bear fruit that befits repentance, 9 and do not presume to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father'; for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham. 10 Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees; every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 11 "I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry; he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the granary, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire." 13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him. 14 John would have prevented him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?" 15 But Jesus answered him, "Let it be so now; for thus it is fitting for us to fulfil all righteousness." Then he consented. 16 And when Jesus was baptized, he went up immediately from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and alighting on him; 17 and lo, a voice from heaven, saying, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased."

After doing a very hastey search through google, it is identified that this could be Jesus first identifying with his destiny on the Cross in order to forgive us our sins.

smiles

Originally posted by Saruman
Actually that makes no sense... Sorry roar_ie Jesus was supposed to be born without sin as only someone born without sin could pay for ours! If being baptised washed away everyone's sin then life would be a lit simpler would it not?

Mary was the one born without sin (the immaculate conception).... I always thought that Jesus was baptised as an act of humility, John the Baptist was saying that Jesus should baptise him but he said no, that it was fitting that he himself he baptised.

<< Fio >>

JustHalf

Where does it say that Mary was entirely without sin?

My doubt is based on a quick look at the early chapters of Matthew and Luke. I stand ready to be corrected.

smiles

Originally posted by JustHalf
Where does it say that Mary was entirely without sin?

I said born without sin (the immaculate conception) not entirely without it.

<< Fio >>

JustHalf

Sex isn't a sin. Sure didn't God tell us (in Genesis) to go forth and multiply, and I'm fairly sure he didn't mean IVF.

Mary's birth isn't the immaculate conception -- Jesus was born to a virgin, not Mary. I presume that's a typo?

jesus_freak

The immaculate conception is Catholic doctrine (not accepted by any other denomination, afaik) that Mary was conceived without sin. It seems to be based on apocryphal gospels, and some wierd logic. The virginal birth is the doctrine that Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born.

JF

sanvean

as far as i know, there is a grey area with regards to the virginity of mary. apparently, the aramaic/hebraic (?) word which we have translated as 'virgin' can - and was more usually associated with - 'young woman'. Although this can - and will - be argued ad infinitum.

and yes, as far as i know, the whole idea of redemption and salvation rests upon Jesus as being the perfect man, which would presume he was without sin. He is a kind of Second Adam ...

Excelsior

He isn't just a second Adam. Central to the idea of redemption is Jesus as perfect man and as full God at the same time. Its the idea of Christology that makes Christianity a complete philosophy.

sanvean

Originally posted by Excelsior
He isn't just a second Adam.

That's why I said he was a kind of second adam. obviously, for christianity, he was a hell of a lot more (you know, God as well)

jesus_freak

Originally posted by sanvean
as far as i know, there is a grey area with regards to the virginity of mary. apparently, the aramaic/hebraic (?) word which we have translated as 'virgin' can - and was more usually associated with - 'young woman'. Although this can - and will - be argued ad infinitum.

This is one of those things that people who haven't read the Bible say. I believe that it's true that the word for virgin is the same as the word for young woman, but the Gospels are very clear that Mary was a virgin.

Matthew 1:18 states it clearly:
This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.

Luke 1:30-35 says:
But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. "You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."
"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"
The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God."

JF

neuro-praxis

Washout,

Jesus didn't need to be baptised; I suppose he chose to do so as a representation of what God was doing with the new covenant.

And this is a rough outline of what a Christian is:

1) Somebody who believes that Christ was Simultaneously God and the son of God, conceived without sin and sinless in life, and recognises him as their personal saviour and the one and only saviour of all men.

2) Somebody who belives in the power and unity of the trinity (Father, Son and Holy Spirit).

3) Somebody who has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ through prayer and scripture and has made a commitment to Him.

4) Somebody who believes in the truth of the bible and tries to live by its guidelines.

That's a sketchy outline. But there you go.