simpsons lost it?

Imaal

I'm a regulary viewer and tremendous fan of the simpsons, I just love that three-eyed fish hahaha! but seriously
does anyone think its lost whatever it is it has.
The new episodes, some of the jokes are as good as they always were but the plots and stories are just airhead random events, give us some credit.

GUI

i thought newest 300 episode was one of the best ever

Imaal

really? I didn't like it much, the story was just a celebrity opportunity kind of thing

TomTom

It's hard keep ideas with what they are doing. 300 eps, thats a lot no matter how many writers there are. Celeb cameos are a way of inventing storylines that are new, they man not be as funny but they are new.

It ain't lost it, it's just strugling.

As far as I know the simpsons movie will be out in a year or so and after that the simpsons are hanging up for good.

patch

Originally posted by TomTom
It's hard keep ideas with what they are doing. 300 eps, thats a lot no matter how many writers there are. Celeb cameos are a way of inventing storylines that are new, they man not be as funny but they are new.

It ain't lost it, it's just strugling.

As far as I know the simpsons movie will be out in a year or so and after that the simpsons are hanging up for good.

They're talking about that movie for years!!! If they don't **** it up, I reckon they'll go on for ever.......

GUI

longest running tv series ever aint it?

Imaal

If they are finishing up next year, they're loosing it. You can't be struggling and just stop making episodes.

TomTom

I heard loads of movie talk but i read it somewhere in an interview with matt groening.

I also think it became the longest sitcom and maybe tv series after the 300 episode was aired.

YoungNastyMan

Matt Greoning's plan was to replace the simpsons with futuramma, But its safe to say futuramma has flopped (in comparison 2 the simpons)

So they're continuing with the simpons, as long as netwoks are buying The Simpsons, i don't think it will fade.


But if they do, do a movie, id say it'll be a quick cash in, like a nice pay off before they give it the axe.

Pigman II

I find that when you examine The Simpsons and where it may (or may not) have gone wrong you should look at the following aspects of it. : It’s structure, character relationships, basis in reality and the primary focus of the show.

Structure
========
When you examine the Simpsons you will notice that majority of the early episodes had a basic structure of ‘plot + subplot’ eg ‘9f14 Duffless’ where Homer has to quit drinking for a month whilst Lisa supports the story running bizarre science experiments on Bart’. I think from the beginning that the writers wisely realized that there wasn’t enough depth to these characters to warrant a focused 30 minute story about any of them. They therefore split the burden and came up with a system that worked.

This all started to change around Season 7 (1995-96) and (for my money anyway) was heralded by the episode ‘3F20 Much Apu About Nothing’ in which the townfolks force Quimby to introduce a ‘bear patrol’ tax and ends up in a debate about deporting illegal immigrants. If you can see the connection between these two then please tell me but for now you’ll just excuse me if I write it off as bad storytelling?

Anyway. this process of ‘switching’ became the norm and whilst they made the screenwriting process less ‘anchored’ it also removed my ability to ‘invest’ in the storyline because I knew deep-down what whatever happened in they early part of the show would be discarded in favour of a newer (and usually more-implausible) situation.

Check out ‘DABF22 How I spent my Strummer Vacation’ to see what I’m talking about. This ep starts interestingly with Homer revealing deep down that resents his family and that a solution must be found for his problem. The solution? To send him to BAND CAMP of course! A camp in which Mick Jagger and others (because they of course have nothing better to do) teach Springfieldianites (yes that is an official term for them) how to play guitar!

Character relationship
================
Character relationships (esp. regarding the 5 main family members) was an important aspect of the show for me but this feature has deteriorated to the point where I don’t actually care about these ‘people’ anymore. Coincidentally this is the same impression I get of the family’s feelings towards each other. Out of interest when was the last time you saw any of them (Marge excluded) sacrifice anything for their fellow family members?

I think ‘2f15 Lisa’s Wedding’ was the last time I remember feeling anything genuine about the family’s interplay with each other. I refer in particular to the scene at the end of that ep where Lisa realizes she should cherish Homer for the good in him and not feel embarrassed by his boorish ways.

However since that ep the emotion has either been forced by the writers or just completely neglected in place of a juggernaut of hit&miss jokes.

Basis in reality
=============
When it comes to The Simpsons this is a tricky topic because, lets face it, it’s a cartoon set in a fictious city with mainly stereotypical characters. So you’re already out on a ledge when it comes to arguing it's basis in the reality. But what I’m talking about here is the facets of the inhabitants of Springfield that we as real people can identify with in our own lives. Things, for example, like having to get up in the morning and do a job we hate to pay the bills. This used to be Homers lot in life but now (as one character recently pointed out) he doesn’t seem to ever even turn up to work anymore!

I think the first instance of an episode that just stretched the realm of possibility TOO far was the one where Homer becomes an astronaut ‘1f13 Homer Alone’. It was clear that after this episode all bets were off and that this show had lost the run of itself.

Shift in focus of the show
===================
The last and most important thing that killed The Simpsons for me was a shift in it’s focus from ‘the family‘ to just Homer. I say this because Homer (for all his entertainment) is not a very likeable character and should only be taken in small doses (much like Marges nagging). Don’t get me wrong, I like everyone else found his buffoonery and ignorant comments funny at first but as his persona started to envelop the show the writing started to reflect what he is in essence ie lazy, stupid, soulless and uncaring.

Anyway, that’s just my quickly composed ramblings on it. So to answer your question : Yes the Simpsons has lost it. It lost it a long time ago and it's basically been dead for the best part of a decade now.

YoungNastyMan

Pigman II you huge big massive freak

Imaal

I think futurama was stronger than the simpsons in many ways, it definitely out does the new episodes.

groening was allowed be weird with it since its a sci-fi theme and so didn't have to make what seemed ridiculous plots because in that genre they just weren't
I prefer futurama alot more in many aspects.

antwalsh

An experiment you can do:

You can stop watching the Simpsons for a while. Then only watch the old ones for another while. Then skip the intervening years and watch the new ones - big difference.

I did this (not on purpose) and I can't watch the new episodes when they come out. Originally the characters were charicatures (spelling?) of real people and society. Now they are charicatures of themselves. This happened in Friends and in countless other shos that went on too long without good writing.

artvandelay

http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hp&cf=prev&id=1808405877&intl=us

Here is a link to all the resent details about the simpsons film. But most are hazy at best.

Imaal

The best celebrity ever on the simpsons was darryl strawberry
he is really really.....good.

Marge: Lisa, normally, I would say that you should stand up for what you believe in, but you've been doing that an awful lot lately...
Bart: Yeah, you made us march in that gay rights parade.
Homer: And we cant watch Fox because they own those chemical weapons plants in Syria.

Homer: Are you saying you're never going to eat any animal again? What about bacon?
Lisa: No.
Homer: Ham?
Lisa: No!
Homer: Pork chops?
Lisa: Dad, those all come from the same animal!
Homer: Heh heh heh. Ooh, yeah, right, Lisa. A wonderful, magical animal.

ah, eases the pain

The Gopher

Pigman-Firstly I thought Much Apu About Nothing was a better episode than Duffless.I dont watch the simpsons so I can feel something for the characters-I watch it for the comedy.I remember one critic complained about that the episode where Homer shuts up Marge by shooting her with the poisoned dart showed the show had become more low brow and less family oriented.Or something.To me,it showed that the viewers didnt particularly like her annoying Homer by nagging as soon as she got home and so he shuts her up with the dart.Classic ending.

As said the simpsons is a comedy,not a soap opera that attempts to deal with issues.I mean,look at all the worst episodes.Moaning Lisa covered her depression and went absoloutely nowhere.Homers Oddesy,where he attempts suicide without a touch of comedy,was just as boring .And before you say how can suicide be comedic just look at the hilarious lines Moe has said regarding his own attempts.

Would you rather it was like South Park?Which was a sick hilarious comedy in series 1,was plain sh1t in series 2 and in following seasons often tried to satirise racism,disabillity and so on with little success.The reason is because Matt Stone and Trey Parker only half knew what they were talking about.Unlike,lets say,Chris Morris,who understands an issue to the max before he satirises it,the SP guys just seem to say"Hey,lets do something about how people are racist/prejudiced/sectarian etc".It doesnt work out entirely awful but at the same time it is not near as cutting edge as Brass Eye.Judging by some recent episodes the newer writers generally no nothing about satire.Ths simpsons had a small amount of short satire for a while,but they knew to keep it that way rather than expanding into episodes which would run out of steam.

What do you want from the simpsons?Episodes that end on a serious note?Or episodes which end with a good closing joke?We arent watching Richard and Judy or Kilroy.The Simpsons is not meant to tackle issues.It is meant to entertain.It is intelligent yes,in the way it has the hidden jokes which you might not pick up first time round,or might only click with those of us with knowledge in a particular subject.I mean,how can you be touched by it?Its a cartoon for gods sake!A highly intelligent cartoon,but nonetheless a cartoon comedy.

Anybody looking for a deeper meaning is honestly gone in the head.If you want to see so called issues handled(and handled badly at that in most cases)then watch more soaps.Because you arent going to find this kind of thing in a cartoon comedy.Everybody loves Family Guy(well,I LIKE it,seeing as it is not near as good as the largely unwatched first season).But do you get worried when Stewie plots to kill Lois?Are you upset that there is such a bad mother son relationship?Did you shed a tear at the many deaths of kenny in south park?Do you have compassion for his poverty stricken family?Does anybody care as to the reasons why the likes of Barney Gumble get their bills payed?How idiots like Cletus can feed his dozens of kids?ITS A CARTOON WHO THE FECK CARES!!!!!!
No,of course not,because it is all a bit of fun.Too many issues and it would get too suagry and embarrasing to watch.

Youngnastyman is right-you are reading into it way too much.

But I do agree,the simpsons is getting less intelligent.Less smart hidden jokes (presumably conan o brian came up with them).And while some of them are funny.there are deffo more sex jokes than there was,indicating they are trying to get cheap laughs rather than thinking of more deep stuff.

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by Imaal
Homer: Are you saying you're never going to eat any animal again? What about bacon?
Lisa: No.
Homer: Ham?
Lisa: No!
Homer: Pork chops?
Lisa: Dad, those all come from the same animal!
Homer: Heh heh heh. Ooh, yeah, right, Lisa. A wonderful, magical animal.

one of my all time favourite scenes.

my favourite is still the one where Homer goes into Moes and tells everyone of his name change to Max Power and flicks his scarf getting it caught in the fan
LOL

Pigman II

Pigman-Firstly I thought Much Apu About Nothing was a better episode than Duffless. I dont watch the simpsons so I can feel something for the characters-I watch it for the comedy. I remember one critic complained about that the episode where Homer shuts up Marge by shooting her with the poisoned dart showed the show had become more low brow and less family oriented.Or something.To me,it showed that the viewers didnt particularly like her annoying Homer by nagging as soon as she got home and so he shuts her up with the dart.Classic ending.

To be precise I didn't debate whether Duffless was better than Much-Apu-About-Nothing (or vice versa) nor do I particularly care. I was only using those two to highlight how the show format changed over the years. In a show that spans over 300 episodes it is a waste of time arguing whether this episode is better than that episode and so on.

But since you seem to have misinterpreted a lot of what I've said I'd like to assure you that, like yourself, I don't watch the Simpsons so I can 'feel something' for the characters either. I, again like you, watch it primarily for laughs. But my point is that a show where I am not INTERESTED in the characters or the story is difficult to enjoy on any comedic level.

As said the simpsons is a comedy,not a soap opera that attempts to deal with issues.I mean,look at all the worst episodes.Moaning Lisa covered her depression and went absoloutely nowhere.Homers Oddesy,where he attempts suicide without a touch of comedy,was just as boring .And before you say how can suicide be comedic just look at the hilarious lines Moe has said regarding his own attempts.

Firstly, to correct you Soap-operas DON'T deal with issues. If anything they are an escape FROM 'issues' for anyone who chooses to watch them. Soaps deal purely with endless bouts of conflict and not much else. At least that's what it seems to me from what little of them I've exposed myself to.

As well as that you are confusing problems with issues. To clarify, Deportation of illegal immigrants is 'an issue', Lisa having depression is a merely a 'problem' which relates back to the topic of 'character'. The Simpsons only started dealing more with 'issues' later on in the show when the worm had already started to turn.

Also Moe saying things like 'ah well it looks like suicide again for me' is not funny. And worse than that it's not even sad - or shocking. Characters like Moe are peripheral and stereotypical and as such regurgitated comments like that are effectively worth NOTHING because in 13 years we've never been given the opportunity to put them in a context - and if all a piece of comedic writing can claim to emote from someone is a pitiful groan of embarrassment then it's not even worth the paper it's written on.

Would you rather it was like South Park?Which was a sick hilarious comedy in series 1,was plain sh1t in series 2 and in following seasons often tried to satirise racism,disabillity and so on with little success.The reason is because Matt Stone and Trey Parker only half knew what they were talking about.Unlike,lets say,Chris Morris,who understands an issue to the max before he satirises it,the SP guys just seem to say"Hey,lets do something about how people are racist/prejudiced/sectarian etc".It doesnt work out entirely awful but at the same time it is not near as cutting edge as Brass Eye.Judging by some recent episodes the newer writers generally no nothing about satire.Ths simpsons had a small amount of short satire for a while,but they knew to keep it that way rather than expanding into episodes which would run out of steam.

If you really believe that Stone and Parker tackle satire on anything other than a deliberately puerile level then I'm afraid that you are the one who is guilty of over-analysis. As to why you even bring S.P. into a Simpsons debate is a mystery itself as (other than being animated tv show) it has very little in common with the Simpsons

Again if you believe that 'Brass Eye' is the televisual zenith of cutting-edge satire then you clearly know nothing about that subject either.

Regarding the quantity of satire in The Simpsons, once again you are mistaken. Truth be told, the show incorporates more satire NOW than it ever did during its formative or mid-term years. It's had no choice but to because, after all, 22 minutes can be long time in a TV show when you don't have a plot.

What do you want from the simpsons?Episodes that end on a serious note?Or episodes which end with a good closing joke?We arent watching Richard and Judy or Kilroy.The Simpsons is not meant to tackle issues.It is meant to entertain.It is intelligent yes,in the way it has the hidden jokes which you might not pick up first time round,or might only click with those of us with knowledge in a particular subject.I mean,how can you be touched by it?Its a cartoon for gods sake!A highly intelligent cartoon,but nonetheless a cartoon comedy.

Just to clarify the Simpsons is NOT an intelligent cartoon (or at least it isn't anymore). Peppering a lifeless piece of meandering storytelling with lots of pointless in-jokes might pass for 'clever' (with some people perhaps) but that's about all.

You seem to also be quite sure that a cartoon should only be expected to be (to quote Bart) 'just a bunch of hilarious stuff' and nothing more. You rate the Simpsons purely on the amount of throw-away gags in it and that's all you care about. It's a wonder the show ever got off the ground during it's initial phase with a viewing public like that but I guess at least now your needs are finally being met.

Anybody looking for a deeper meaning is honestly gone in the head.If you want to see so called issues handled(and handled badly at that in most cases)then watch more soaps.Because you arent going to find this kind of thing in a cartoon comedy.Everybody loves Family Guy(well,I LIKE it,seeing as it is not near as good as the largely unwatched first season).But do you get worried when Stewie plots to kill Lois?Are you upset that there is such a bad mother son relationship?Did you shed a tear at the many deaths of kenny in south park?Do you have compassion for his poverty stricken family?Does anybody care as to the reasons why the likes of Barney Gumble get their bills payed?How idiots like Cletus can feed his dozens of kids?ITS A CARTOON WHO THE FECK CARES!!!!!!
No,of course not,because it is all a bit of fun.Too many issues and it would get too suagry and embarrasing to watch.

That paragraph shows you've totally missed the point. Deeper meaning is not important to me. Good writing and consistency is. I don't care emotionally if Kenny dies every week because it was never an intention of that show to make me feel that way about him. As such I'm quite happy to accept and enjoy shows like S.P. for what they are. In praise of South Park and Family Guy never claimed or aspired to be animated shows with much depth and they've both worked successfully on that particular level.

The Simpsons however came from a different angle and tried to flesh out its characters as much as it could. It had aspirations to include humour, warmth as well as good writing. Unfortunately it deliberately mortgaged all that away to take the route most traveled and row into line with the rest of the aforementioned.

What's even worse is that this current incarnation of the Simpsons doesn't even compete with shows like S.P and Family guy on THEIR level. It's a shame that a show like the Simpsons, which was once heralded for its innovation, saw fit to become just another sheep in the flock and immerse itself in low-brow, dumb-ass humour. But I guess with fans like you around it can be forgiven for taking the easy option.

Youngnastyman is right-you are reading into it way too much.

Well excuse me if I don't just sit there in front of the TV like some brainless vegetable whilst I'm force-fed a strict diet of crap and told to like it. But, having said that, rest assured I am not looking for some 'deeper meaning' to the show either.

All that I'm doing is that If I notice that a show that I used to really like starting to decline I prefer to examine exactly why this is happening rather than just sitting there shoving food into my mouth going 'ah well t'is just inevitable' or even worse 'd'uh this show used to be an hilarious comedy in series 1 but now it's just plain sh1t in series 2. Where's that remote of mine so I can find the next piece of half-assed rubbish on TV to consume off for another year until I'm sick of that too?'

Tiesto

i think they are still as good as always
friends on the other hand. dooowwwnnnn hilllll faaasssst

Imaal

The people posting long irritating debates concerning the simpsons 'dumbening' and contradict themelves every second sentence, should really stop.
the emotional connection with the characters made the jokes funnier because they related to your own lives, making it more personal
the slapdash comedy and weak stories leave you emotionally detached to whats going on and less amused by the jokes.

Now everyone shutup
(I realised I started this topic but now I'm finishing it)

gooday.

Tiesto

hey pigman, do you ever get tired of typing?
i wreckon you got someone else to type for you.
you just talk

Pigman II

Originally posted by Imaal
The people posting long irritating debates concerning the simpsons 'dumbening' and contradict themelves every second sentence, should really stop.

Improve your grammer. It'd make you sound less retarded ... and maybe even slightly genuine.

Originally posted by Imaal
Now everyone shutup

Shutup yourself. I don't agreed with Gopher but at least he unlike you has something interesting to say and something worth responding to. You on the otherhand just come off like a troll-101 student on amateurs night.

Originally posted by Tiesto
hey pigman, do you ever get tired of typing?
i wreckon you got someone else to type for you.
you just talk

I was going to accuse you of the same thing but your typing clearly matches your intelligence.

Imaal

Pigman the point of the message board is opinions.
most of us put up with your LONG rather boring ones so don't contradict mine as I have not said anything of yours er... until now.

btw did you notice that 'dumbening' was in inverted commas
I realise it is not a word, it was in the simpsons which you seem to know so much about
I was not preaching you didn't have to get so offended

Imaal

Can I just add that someone who uses the insult of 'retarded' is more idiotic than I ever can be.

Imaal

I'm sorry just reading your statement again makes me realise more and more of the ridiculous things you accuse people of.
We are not personally attacking you calm down!
Your accusations of faulty typing in so many words...no just one
ugh!
The stuff I type ,
You said it wasn't genuine
how can it not be, I wrote it, if you do not agree with it fine, don't attack me for your pathetic snobbish reasons.

Pigman II

Originally posted by Imaal
Can I just add that someone who uses the insult of 'retarded' is more idiotic than I ever can be.

I think you'll find that a person who needs not one, not two, but three consecutive posts just to produce the six minutes worth of uninspiring, ill-written garbage you posted pretty much sets the baseline on idiocy. Congratulations.

Originally posted by Imaal
Pigman the point of the message board is opinions.

No **** Sherlock? But guess what, that defense doesn’t hold much weight coming from a guy who just previously told everyone to ‘shutup’ regarding their opinions.

Go back under your bridge you moron.

Dr. Loon

Jaysus lads... do ya not think you're all over analysing here. It's an animated series, funny. You like it you like it, you don't, you don't. Full stop.

Pigman. It's not nice to insult other people's grammar. Especially if you can't spell the bleedin word yourself! :rolleyes: What age are you.... 10?

Pigman II

Yes I am 10. How did you guess you bastion of intelligence and conjecture?

Just so you know, I can forgive anyone for a typo and in general I'm not bothered about stupid comments or grammatical errors either. That is, except when I see stuff like:

(1) 'The best celebrity ever on the simpsons was darryl strawberry he is really really.....good.'
(presumably he must have enjoyed it immensely to elicit such a detailed description?)

or

(2) 'The people posting long irritating debates concerning the simpsons 'dumbening' and contradict themelves every second sentence'
(I don't care a hoot about his use of the word dumbening but that sentence doesn't even come close to making sense nor more importantly was there any evidence of anyone guilty what he 'tried' to say)

or (this which REALLY caught my eye and lit my suspicions)

(3) telling people to shut up about a topic that HE introduced. (definitely the comment of a troll who didn't get he wanted with the first batch of replies and now just wants to mix it up a bit)

As such, that's the last I'm gonna write on this because THAT GUY IS A TROLL (not a very good one either). I liked the topic. Just a pity it (1) had to be a troll and (2) had to be on a forum for people who clearly don't know much about the simpsons.

Imaal

Why are you so incredibly obnoxious
Concerning my three consecutive replies, I was doing several other things at once as if it should concern you at all.

You keep insulting me for typos and quotes in which you didn't seam to get, I was only kidding, why does this matter to you so much?. I've seen your responses again to my opinions which have been written now completely out of spite. I wasn't dejecting everyones opinions I was just trying to change the topic, it was getting irritating and I realise I started it and yes I realise maybe I could have gone to another messgae board or something but I don't make terribly adequate decisions as you seem to think is neccessary from every human being but yourself.

It is pretty ridiculous to find you evryday quoting my every word and picking the nitty gritty bits of each syllable that you disagree with.
If you feel so passionately about typos and sarcastic jokes maybe you should go into editing and give me a break.
You also seem to care deeply about the simpsons in some sort of religious way so I'm sorry if I have offended you.
P.S. If you are going to continue to insult me pointlessly come up with something better than a troll (I'm sure you've never met one)