DSL, Dated and Obsolete [Scan]

Raskolnikov

I know how much you guys appreciate broadband comparisons with other countries, this thread will be no different.

http://www.bredband.com/se/content.jsp?t=2&s=3

Bredbandsbolaget, a relative newcomer to the telecoms market has been offering a 10 Mbit/s upload/download connection in Norway and Sweden for the past few months for 320Kroner (€35) the setup cost being 495Kroner (just over €50). Rather than depend on DSL technologies to deliver broadband, B2 has built its own fiber-optic network. This network is designed to deliver 10 Mbit/s always-on service to residential users. Using a fiber-optic network allows B2 to circumvent the problems which have been afflicting the present telecoms operators who are providing DSL, ie capacity. The uptake on the B2 product has been phenomenal with 15,000 lines being installed a month, the only limits to the rollout are the logistics of actually getting the lines laid down. B2's competitors who offer DSL charge roughly the same except at a 1/10th of the bandwidth.

The B2 case shows that providing highspeed broadband needn't be captial intensive, the company still only has 176 employees. My question is that Ireland is dying for a product like this. Why isn't there anyone to capitalize on this? If someone could be found to invest in a scheme similar to the one Scandanavia we could have 10 Mbit/s lines in all the cities within a few years. I might be dreaming here

crawler

FTTH & LRE (Fibre to the Home & Long Reach Ethernet) have been knocking about Sweden for a while now - That is becuase the Government made some very sensible rules about ducting a long time ago, i.e. dig once and make available to all.

I think we are a long,long way from this here! Mind you there are good hardened fibre solutions out there if fibre backhaul was available.

LFCFan

Sweden, a country that is under snow for a good part of the year and they still manage to have a telecoms infrastructure a million times better than Ireland where the weather in never extreme. Same goes with the likes of Canada. At the end of the day it all stems back to complete incompetance from successive governments with the present government probably being the worst of them all. Why would it not be possible for €ircon or someone who actually want to provide a decent service, to lay fibre in new housing estates and start providing vDSL? New estates are going up all over the place and it would be a great opportunity for some forward thinking company to actually lay fibre at the same time. It would also be a massive incentive for people to buy into that estate so the builders could even pay some of the cost of laying the fibre. Is it that simple or is someone gonna complicate matters for me?

MrB

That is becuase the Government made some very sensible rules about ducting a long time ago, i.e. dig once and make available to all.

I've always believed that we need something like this here, it make so much sense that the Government will never see it!

DSLinAbsentia

Sweden can manage this because they have a pratically autonomous economy - so there's little fluctuation in GDP. The taxation system is also much tougher than hours giving the government bigger coffers to work from.

In contrast, we have a government peppered with gangsters, corruption, immaturity and inaction. Then again, we voted them in.

thegills

I visited Stokab in Sweden a few months ago as part of a case study. Prior to 1999, many €100 millions were invested in local and regional networks. This was supplemented from 1999 by €600 million central funds, with 100% funding for national backbone and 30% for regional and city networks. Matching funds were also sourced in the public sector.

Over the last 5 years the Swedish Govt has invested around €1Bn in telecoms infrastructure, mainly fibre. They see fibre as inportant as water, gas, esb etc. Compare those figures to the €65M being spent by the Irish Govt at the moment for the MAN rollouts.

In saying this bear in mind that Sweden has one of the highest tax rates and the cost of living is far greater than Ireland.

LFCFan

Originally posted by thegills
In saying this bear in mind that Sweden has one of the highest tax rates and the cost of living is far greater than Ireland.

yes, but their wages reflect this and the services provided by their tax money makes it worth it. Here we are taxed to high heaven(direct and indirect taxes) yet get feck all return for it. I would rather live in a country that uses tax money wisely and pay more tax than a country that squanders and steals our tax money.

DSLinAbsentia

It's fantastic to watch how a model society works, because even though it seems to have a punitive tax regime, unemployment is negligible, industry is primarily indigenous and nobody is denied access to critical services. I have a lot of Swedish friends through work who love our social scene but see us as in the dark ages in most other ways!

LFCFan

Originally posted by DSLinAbsentia
It's fantastic to watch how a model society works, because even though it seems to have a punitive tax regime, unemployment is negligible, industry is primarily indigenous and nobody is denied access to critical services. I have a lot of Swedish friends through work who love our social scene but see us as in the dark ages in most other ways!

I think if Ireland wasn't seen as such a 'fun' place to party we would be in the crapper big time. Why else would anyone want to come here? Infrastructure, health, education, crime, roads, public transport etc etc etc etc all suck. The way the price of the pint is going we will soon do away with any incentive to come here.

I think infrastructure is the most important aspect of a thriving economy so the Government should be investing big time in Fibre IMO.

MrB

I think infrastructure is the most important aspect of a thriving economy so the Government should be investing big time in Fibre IMO.

I think a good Government is the most important aspect of a thriving economy! but this is getting way off topic so I'll just shut up.

DSLinAbsentia

...but this is right on topic. It's our governments policy decisions and lethargic actions that put us at the bottom of the eHeap. This situation is absolutely political. I guess I'm just frustrated because I don't know how to lobby the points of views being expressed?

What are others doing? Should I be visiting the FF dudes in their community clinics to say "broadband, infrastructure" when they're inundated with complaints about burnt out cars, potholes, theft, schooling, euro price hikes blah blah blah....

MadsL

I guess I'm just frustrated because I don't know how to lobby the points of views being expressed?

Vote 'em out...better yet tell them why you are not giving them first preference, or any:D
Can't wait for an election personally after the experiences I have had over the last week with 'the powers that be'....
[vent]
While I was at it I would fire the entire Civil Service!!!:ninja: [/vent]

bizmark

im considering moveing to finland or sweden in 3-4 years when im 21-22

for the following reasions

1.tax is crazy here
2.No broadband access
3.insureance is way way to high
4.the so called "party way of life" here is ****ing the country bad
5.cant buy a house
6.no health services (we dont even have a sars plan for crist sake)
7.roads are awful
8.crime is crazy

etc etc etc etc and its all mostly caus of the goverment
we have/had the money and what did we do with it ...........really what??? still years away from broadband in all areas when their testing conectsions in america that can send 2 dvd worth of info to japan in 5 mins
being irish is great liveing in ireland is another matter

DSLinAbsentia

Ireland - the world's pub.

Finland, Finland, Finland, the country where I want to be, ee, ee, ee, ee ee, your hills are so lovely....

MDR

1.tax is crazy here

wait till you see the personal tax in Swenden, Finland etc.

etc etc etc etc and its all mostly caus of the goverment

no its mostily your fault, and fault of your family, your friends and neighbours. Who are the Government, some elite class, who live in ivory towers ? , truth is most of our t.d.'s live in our communities and elected again and again etc, and people never really make serious demands (well rarely anyway).

In other countries people take an interest in their community affairs, get ethusiastic about social change etc, in Ireland there is only apathy. The Irish people only have themselves to blame for the state Ireland is in (and don't believe everything you hear on skynews/tv3 etc), good or bad, I amn't convinced that we are any worse than anyone else.

Take IrelandOffline as example, and this isn't aimed at anyone. There are hundreds who have passed through these boards, who complain bitterily about the BB deficit, but for every hundred there is one who will make his/her personal mission to sort it out, to do something, anything to change things.

Regi said something once which I thought summed up Ireland prefectily, I will have to paraphrase ('cos I can't remember exactily), in Ireland a 100,000 people marched against a war in Iraq, the next week 300 people marched about the state of the health service. Which is more likely to effect them, their friends or their family in their lifetime, now I personally wasn't the Iraq march, nor was I at the health service march, but I am beginning to wish I was.

LFCFan

Originally posted by MDR
wait till you see the personal tax in Swenden, Finland etc.

Yes, but the tax money is well spent. The standard of living over there well exceeds Ireland so in relative terms they are getting a hell of a lot more for their money.

no its mostily your fault, and fault of your family, your friends and neighbours. Who are the Government, some elite class, who live in ivory towers ? , truth is most of our t.d.'s live in our communities and elected again and again etc, and people never really make serious demands (well rarely anyway).

I agree to some extent but even when their are demands made by the people and then promises made by the politicians we are let down again and again. There should be some mechanism in place to oust a government who are as incompetant as the present one.

In other countries people take an interest in their community affairs, get ethusiastic about social change etc, in Ireland there is only apathy. The Irish people only have themselves to blame for the state Ireland is in (and don't believe everything you hear on skynews/tv3 etc), good or bad, I amn't convinced that we are any worse than anyone else.

Again I agree for the most part but I don't agree that we are not worse off than anyone else. I've travelled a good bit as have alot of my friends and family and the common thought is that we are miles behind the vast majority of countries for a lot of factors like Health, Roads, Public Transport, Telecommunications, Crime etc etc etc.

Regi said something once which I thought summed up Ireland prefectily, I will have to paraphrase ('cos I can't remember exactily), in Ireland a 100,000 people marched against a war in Iraq, the next week 300 people marched about the state of the health service. Which is more likely to effect them, their friends or their family in their lifetime, now I personally wasn't the Iraq march, nor was I at the health service march, but I am beginning to wish I was.

This sums up Ireland to a tee. The priorities of people in this country suck. People march against War because it's in their nature. A lot of these are the same people who are resposible for criminals getting an easy life because of 'human rights' etc. But when it comes to their own health service or education system they have no voice.

MDR

Yes, but the tax money is well spent. The

Irish people hate paying tax and thre perception has alwasy been tax is wasted. For instance, most people's principle complaint about the rainbow coalition under J.Bruton was that tax wasn't lowered for the P.A.Y.E. worker. People forgot that fees for university education was removed under this administration etc. Unless an average Irish voter is getting more money back in his pocket, the govt. is doing a bad job and the money is being wasted.

I agree to some extent but even when their are demands made by the people and then promises made by the politicians we are let down again and again. There should be some mechanism in place to oust a government who are as incompetant as the present one.

Then don't re-elect them, its the democratic system, works everywhere else in the world. If you think you local representative is sh*te, find someone you think is better and makes sure he/she gets in, put your money where your mouth is and go out campaigning etc. In the interim between now and the next election, if the govt. is crap, its really your fault (not specifically yours LFCFan), for either voting for the idiots (I did, doh !) or not getting out and supporting the guy or gal you wanted to win.

Again the Irish people have created this situation themselves, they will always elect the party who promises to give em the gravy (remember the give away budget before the election and fine gael promising free health service for all), parties make crazy promises to get elected and forget about em afterward, people have forgotten by the next election.

This sums up Ireland to a tee. The priorities of people in this country suck. People march against War because it's in their nature. A lot of these are the same people who are resposible for criminals getting an easy life because of 'human rights' etc. But when it comes to their own health service or education system they have no voice.

ok super you agree with me, so what you gonna about (again not specifically aimed at LFCFan). I will quote Micheal Moore when I say, that change can never happen while we live in a celebrity culture, while you wait for Micheal Moore or Ralph Nader to lead the way. This will only happen, change will only happen if you get up off your ass and do something, anything. (Micheal Moore on Alternative Radio, funny guy ... ).