Eircom PhoneWatch and ADSL

Scottish

I heard somewhere that already installed Eircom PhoneWatch systems are incompatible with ADSL. I also heard that Eircom are charging customers to change the way that the Alarm connects (I think that they spilt the lines when installing these or something), so that the line will then be suitable for ADSL. Is this not outrageous (if true)

I am moving house soon, and the house I am moving to has one of these fecking things attached. If anyone has come across this, I'd be interested to see what the outcome was.

shabbyroad

whatever about the Eircon system I reckon it's not true.
Currently our alarm is monitored with Top Security and so long as there is a live analogue phone line somewhere in the house then it's ok.
When I , eventually, get RDSL installed I expect it will continue to work this way , just like the various phones and fax machines in the house.

The only way I can see it being a problem is if there is a unique way that Eircon connect their PhoneWatch system to the 'phone network (perhaps bypassing the internal phone wiring in your house ?) that will not work when xDSL is installed. Not having their system installed I can't say for sure either way. However I would imagine that it is a simple matter of putting a filter at the point of connection between the alarm system and the Eircon cabling coming into your building.

nagero

Originally posted by shabbyroad
The only way I can see it being a problem is if there is a unique way that Eircon connect their PhoneWatch system to the 'phone network (perhaps bypassing the internal phone wiring in your house ?) that will not work when xDSL is installed. Not having their system installed I can't say for sure either way. However I would imagine that it is a simple matter of putting a filter at the point of connection between the alarm system and the Eircon cabling coming into your building.

Phonewatch is connected where the phoneline enters the house, in newer houses this is the little box outside, otherwise it's the master socket. It gets 'priority' by taking the external line and placing the alarm system between the outside line and any internal phones. This means it can hangup any current calls before it sends it's alarm message.

I suppost the problem occurs in getting a splitter into the line before it goes through the phonewatch box, and still passing the adsl frequencies into the house.

An interesting DIY challenge, covered elsewhere in this forum i think.

I don't have adsl yet, but having ISDN caused enough headaches for the phonewatch installer. External Box -> ISDN TA in office -> external box -> phonewatch -> external box -> back to master socket.

It will probably be similar for adsl.

nagero

Redshift

Originally posted by shabbyroad
whatever about the Eircon system I reckon it's not true.
Currently our alarm is monitored with Top Security and so long as there is a live analogue phone line somewhere in the house then it's ok.
When I , eventually, get RDSL installed I expect it will continue to work this way , just like the various phones and fax machines in the house.

The only way I can see it being a problem is if there is a unique way that Eircon connect their PhoneWatch system to the 'phone network (perhaps bypassing the internal phone wiring in your house ?) that will not work when xDSL is installed. Not having their system installed I can't say for sure either way. However I would imagine that it is a simple matter of putting a filter at the point of connection between the alarm system and the Eircon cabling coming into your building.

Something you need to check Shabbyroad, make sure your're alarm is wired for priority as all alarms, Phonewatch or not are required to be connected to the line in the same way . the reason I mention it is you seem to be very sure it will work when it where if you're alarm is wired properly then it may not work or work poorly. You may check this yourself by phoneing your monitoring company and putting your system on test then trigger the alarm after it arms, after 20 - 30 seconds ALL your phones should be dead for a minute or so and then again shortly after disarming the system. If they are all dead then there is no guarantee your DSL will work on any socket in your house, if some or all your phones are still working and/or you can hear DTMF signals on your line when your alarm is communicating then you have a serious problem with your alarm. I originally posted the DIY article for monitored alarm owners and I am now going to post another easier method for doing it.

You will need
Screwdrivers 1 flat 1 philips
4 or 6 core telephone cable
Phone socket as described
Wire stripper
Wire cutter
Some Time

Step 1 Find the entry point for your Phoneline it will be overhead or underground it will tend to be the latter if your house was built after the early 80s and the former before if your house was built in the 90s then outside on the side of your house there may be a box about 2'x1' this will likely contain your phone and cable TV connections if you don't have this the phone cable may be just sticking out of the floor in the corner of your hall it will be a thickish black cable.

Step 2 After you locate the line coming from the street that is the thick black cable find the first access point on the line this will either be the master socket in the hall if the cable is coming out of the floor or if your line is overhead a juction box will be located inside where the line enters the house if you have an external 2'x1' box the junction box will be in here.

Step 3 Open the juction box the older ones are very fragile bakelite type material so go gently on it.

Step 4 Inside you will see at least four but more than likely more small wires don't be put off it's not a complicated as it looks.
look for the two wires coming from the thick black cable, eircom usually use orange and white here but not always, if you have your phone in a long time you may have two seperate black cables that look like thick bell cable this is the first access point on you phoneline everything in your house is connected after this point and this is where to connect your DSL modem.

Step 5 Get a small phonesocket rj11 the small square ones measuring about 2"X2" with the sticky pad on the back that Powercity sell are excellect for this. open the socket with the tip of a screwdriver carefull you don't hurt your hand if the driver slips. inside the socket you will see four connectors coloured Green, Red, Yellow and Black the good news is you only need two of these usually the Red and Green which should be the furthest two from the sockets rj11 jack connection.
It will look something like the simple diagram below the o are the screw terminals.



ORed OGreen


OYell OBlack


Step 6
Mount this socket near where your modem is going to go strip the outer insulation from one end of the phone cable you will see four to six small wires again only two are required the colours of the wires will probably be two green and white one with a thick band of green the other with a thin band the same goes for the other colours which will probably be Orange and White and Blue and white. select one pair say the orange and white pair and strip the insulation to expose the metal conductors by about an inch. open the screws that are marked Red and Green in the phone socket diagram above just loosen them dont take them out. Put one or the stripped wires under each of the screws wrapping the exposed metal conductor around the shaft of the screw as much as possible if you can't get the wire around the screw loosen the screw a little more. When you're done tighten the screw while making sure the exposed wire stays around the screw if you have done this correctly the screws will be tight and the exposed metal conductor will be trapped under the head of the screw make sure that the metal is in good contact with the screw. Make sure the wire that was already under the screw when you opened the socket is still there with the new wire after you have tightened eveything up.

Step 7
Run the phone cable to the junction box we talked about in step 3 it's up to you how you do this but if you take your time you can do a neat job I wouldn't recomend running it outside as it could be a lightning hazard.

Step 8 We're back down at the eircom junction box find the pair of wires that carry you're line from the street as discussed earlier they will terminate in screw terminals or clip terminals if the line is a recent install. Bring the other end of the cable coming from the socket you installed right into the eircom junction box and strip the outer insulation from the cable find the other end of the pair of wires you used in the socket for example we used orange and white, you can use any colours once you use the same colours on both ends. Again strip off about an inch of the insulation to expose the metal conductors connect one wire to each of the terminals that the incomming line connected to there are only two and it doesn't matter which way round you connect them.

Junction Box example
________a_o---o__________
Line In Line Out to phones
________b_o---o__________

Again o denotes the terminals you need to connect your new socket to the the terminals beside a & b this is where phonewatch and others connect the alarm systems to so there may be several wires going to each terminal just be careful that they are all still connected after you have made your connections.

Step 8
Plug a phone which you know to be working into your new socket, If you have a dial tone then you're done if not check all the connections are tight and that you have made them correctly also check that you have used the same wires at each end

You should now have a working socket that is connected directly to your exchange line and not running through your alarm or any other device. Plug your DSL splitter into this new socket and your modem into the splitter and you should have sync.

A WORD OF WARNING

1 Your phoneline runs at 50 volts DC when it rings it changes to 100 volts AC if you are touching the line and it rings you will feel a tingling sensation. Don't worry the current is too low to hurt you but may make you jump or frighten you if you're not expecting it It happens to me almost every day I don't even stop woking on the line if it switches when I'm in contact with it. Some people don't like it but I mention it so you know what it is if it happens

2 Be sure you're alarm is still capable of dialing out ring your alarm comapany and tell them you want to do a phone test they will put you account on test while you initiate a signal. Some PW Wireless panels try entering your code followed by 2 if you hear "Phone Test is On" wait while the panel does a self test if all is well it will say "Phone test OK" or something similar, But if your not sure ring them first and they will tell you what to do.

3 Do not use your new socket for a phone EVER don't even plug a phone into the phone outlet on the splitter to do so may result in you alarm system being unable to report an alarm should that phone be left off hook. So once again NEVER PLUG A PHONE INTO THE DSL SOCKET OR SPLITTER IF YOU DO THIS MOD!

I hope this helps someone I know it's a long winded decription of a simple task but I think using this guide anybody who is anyway handy at all should be well capable of doing this.

As always you do this at your own risk if you are having trouble PM me and I will talk you through whatever difficulty you are having.

Enjoy

Red

Scottish

Yikes.

Thanks for that, but it might be a bit out of my clumsy league.

I have to assume, then, that Eircom will not change this for me, without me paying them? I must check the situation with them. This must surely be starting to come up as a problem?

shabbyroad

thanks Redshift - I currently have ISDN so I have had to take a line from the Eircon ISDN TA. It was signed off for ISO compliance for the last 3 years so I guess it's ok .. .
though I seem to recall using the hard-wired POTS line1 from the TA that will work even if the ISDN TA itself is powered down.
It's due for annual maintenance next month so I'll check with the chap who comes out.

thanks for the information though - always good to learn something new. I'll try that test this weekend just to see how it works.

I'll be able to ensure it's ok when I get xDSL installed. Although the entry point for the Eircon cable is the box on the outside of the house , I have it run up to my office in the attic where I've got my various phone, ethernet etc etc connections

Redshift

Originally posted by shabbyroad
thanks Redshift - I currently have ISDN so I have had to take a line from the Eircon ISDN TA. It was signed off for ISO compliance for the last 3 years so I guess it's ok .. .
though I seem to recall using the hard-wired POTS line1 from the TA that will work even if the ISDN TA itself is powered down.
It's due for annual maintenance next month so I'll check with the chap who comes out.

thanks for the information though - always good to learn something new. I'll try that test this weekend just to see how it works.

I'll be able to ensure it's ok when I get xDSL installed. Although the entry point for the Eircon cable is the box on the outside of the house , I have it run up to my office in the attic where I've got my various phone, ethernet etc etc connections

Before running a new cable check if you already have a spare pair coming from the junction box to some where handy. Your house is probably wired in cat5 and as you phoneline requires only a pair of wires there may be enough spare pairs running around your house to get a circuit up to where you want it.
Have a good look first

shabbyroad

Yes, I'll probably need that 2nd pair for a 2nd phone line and just have RDSL on the 1st phone line. I'll make sure then that the alarm system can use the 2nd line as described in your posting.

cheers

GillyS

Just to let you know I had DSL (downgrade from ISDN) installed this morning by Eircom and I also have phonewatch . The DSL installation went fine and the alarm is working also so I don't think its as much of a problem as people think...

Gilly

shurl

Yup, Its pretty easy

Redshifts first DIY joby in the other forum, worked fine.

S.

butts

Hi,

Attached to this posting is a photo of the junction box and the telephone sockets connected to it. I read through Redshift instructions and was wondering if I actually need to do anything to the junction box if I order the self-install version of RDSL for Line 2 (see pic). The junction box is exactly the way it was left after PhoneWatch was installed. The reason for having RDSL put on Line 2 is that I am going to have Line 1 disconnected as I no longer have a need for it. As well as PhoneWatch, Line 2 also has a fax on it which is used by a number of different people who would not want their fax number changed, so Line 1 has to be the one to go. If anybody can confirm whether or not anything needs to be done to the junction box, it would be much appreciated.

Kind regards,
Butts.

Redshift

Solution attached to make your spare socket into an adsl socket it will save you installing another socket, a point of warning when you do this mod be sure to never ever plug a phone into it as you will run the risk of Phonewatch not being able to transmit an alarm.

The Procedure:

Remove the cables connected to *1 and *2 there should be one wire into each terminal these are the wires going to your defunt line 1 socket. connect one of those wires into each of those white terminal blocks using the free side. the old line one socket should now have the line two dial tone on it connected before everything else. Plug your filter and dsl modem into this socket and your done:)

Post back if you have any problems or need a different solution.

Red

disco_rob_funk

for what it's worth, I've a very old phone line, with a very recent PhoneWatch installation, and Netsource RADSL self-install hasn't caused any bother with it.

RC

Redshift

Originally posted by disco_rob_funk
for what it's worth, I've a very old phone line, with a very recent PhoneWatch installation, and Netsource RADSL self-install hasn't caused any bother with it.

RC

Yep, it's worth pointing out that you may not have any issues with the dsl signal going through your alarm but if your anyway borderline as regards DSL signal then you will need to do the mod.

Red

CyberGhost

sorry, what are you guys talking about? btw can i use my eircom ethernet modem with netsourse DSL?

sceptre

Very useful post above Redshift (kudos). Filed away for future reference (thanks)

Jimbojimbo

Hi Redshift,

Thanks for the helpful article.

Do I need to do something to stop the ADSL signal getting into the Phonewatch box?

….or is the issue here purely that the ADSL signal on the telephone line that is going through the Phonewatch box may be removed/distorted/ reduced by the alarm control panel.


Thanks


Jim

krs

Redshift wrote: »

Something you need to check Shabbyroad, make sure your're alarm is wired for priority as all alarms, Phonewatch or not are required to be connected to the line in the same way . the reason I mention it is you seem to be very sure it will work when it where if you're alarm is wired properly then it may not work or work poorly. You may check this yourself by phoneing your monitoring company and putting your system on test then trigger the alarm after it arms, after 20 - 30 seconds ALL your phones should be dead for a minute or so and then again shortly after disarming the system. If they are all dead then there is no guarantee your DSL will work on any socket in your house, if some or all your phones are still working and/or you can hear DTMF signals on your line when your alarm is communicating then you have a serious problem with your alarm. I originally posted the DIY article for monitored alarm owners and I am now going to post another easier method for doing it.


You will need
Screwdrivers 1 flat 1 philips
4 or 6 core telephone cable
Phone socket as described
Wire stripper
Wire cutter
Some Time

Step 1 Find the entry point for your Phoneline it will be overhead or underground it will tend to be the latter if your house was built after the early 80s and the former before if your house was built in the 90s then outside on the side of your house there may be a box about 2'x1' this will likely contain your phone and cable TV connections if you don't have this the phone cable may be just sticking out of the floor in the corner of your hall it will be a thickish black cable.

Step 2 After you locate the line coming from the street that is the thick black cable find the first access point on the line this will either be the master socket in the hall if the cable is coming out of the floor or if your line is overhead a juction box will be located inside where the line enters the house if you have an external 2'x1' box the junction box will be in here.

Step 3 Open the juction box the older ones are very fragile bakelite type material so go gently on it.

Step 4 Inside you will see at least four but more than likely more small wires don't be put off it's not a complicated as it looks.
look for the two wires coming from the thick black cable, eircom usually use orange and white here but not always, if you have your phone in a long time you may have two seperate black cables that look like thick bell cable this is the first access point on you phoneline everything in your house is connected after this point and this is where to connect your DSL modem.

Step 5 Get a small phonesocket rj11 the small square ones measuring about 2"X2" with the sticky pad on the back that Powercity sell are excellect for this. open the socket with the tip of a screwdriver carefull you don't hurt your hand if the driver slips. inside the socket you will see four connectors coloured Green, Red, Yellow and Black the good news is you only need two of these usually the Red and Green which should be the furthest two from the sockets rj11 jack connection.
It will look something like the simple diagram below the o are the screw terminals.



ORed OGreen


OYell OBlack


Step 6
Mount this socket near where your modem is going to go strip the outer insulation from one end of the phone cable you will see four to six small wires again only two are required the colours of the wires will probably be two green and white one with a thick band of green the other with a thin band the same goes for the other colours which will probably be Orange and White and Blue and white. select one pair say the orange and white pair and strip the insulation to expose the metal conductors by about an inch. open the screws that are marked Red and Green in the phone socket diagram above just loosen them dont take them out. Put one or the stripped wires under each of the screws wrapping the exposed metal conductor around the shaft of the screw as much as possible if you can't get the wire around the screw loosen the screw a little more. When you're done tighten the screw while making sure the exposed wire stays around the screw if you have done this correctly the screws will be tight and the exposed metal conductor will be trapped under the head of the screw make sure that the metal is in good contact with the screw. Make sure the wire that was already under the screw when you opened the socket is still there with the new wire after you have tightened eveything up.

Step 7
Run the phone cable to the junction box we talked about in step 3 it's up to you how you do this but if you take your time you can do a neat job I wouldn't recomend running it outside as it could be a lightning hazard.

Step 8 We're back down at the eircom junction box find the pair of wires that carry you're line from the street as discussed earlier they will terminate in screw terminals or clip terminals if the line is a recent install. Bring the other end of the cable coming from the socket you installed right into the eircom junction box and strip the outer insulation from the cable find the other end of the pair of wires you used in the socket for example we used orange and white, you can use any colours once you use the same colours on both ends. Again strip off about an inch of the insulation to expose the metal conductors connect one wire to each of the terminals that the incomming line connected to there are only two and it doesn't matter which way round you connect them.

Junction Box example
________a_o---o__________
Line In Line Out to phones
________b_o---o__________

Again o denotes the terminals you need to connect your new socket to the the terminals beside a & b this is where phonewatch and others connect the alarm systems to so there may be several wires going to each terminal just be careful that they are all still connected after you have made your connections.

Step 8
Plug a phone which you know to be working into your new socket, If you have a dial tone then you're done if not check all the connections are tight and that you have made them correctly also check that you have used the same wires at each end

You should now have a working socket that is connected directly to your exchange line and not running through your alarm or any other device. Plug your DSL splitter into this new socket and your modem into the splitter and you should have sync.

A WORD OF WARNING

1 Your phoneline runs at 50 volts DC when it rings it changes to 100 volts AC if you are touching the line and it rings you will feel a tingling sensation. Don't worry the current is too low to hurt you but may make you jump or frighten you if you're not expecting it It happens to me almost every day I don't even stop woking on the line if it switches when I'm in contact with it. Some people don't like it but I mention it so you know what it is if it happens

2 Be sure you're alarm is still capable of dialing out ring your alarm comapany and tell them you want to do a phone test they will put you account on test while you initiate a signal. Some PW Wireless panels try entering your code followed by 2 if you hear "Phone Test is On" wait while the panel does a self test if all is well it will say "Phone test OK" or something similar, But if your not sure ring them first and they will tell you what to do.

3 Do not use your new socket for a phone EVER don't even plug a phone into the phone outlet on the splitter to do so may result in you alarm system being unable to report an alarm should that phone be left off hook. So once again NEVER PLUG A PHONE INTO THE DSL SOCKET OR SPLITTER IF YOU DO THIS MOD!

I hope this helps someone I know it's a long winded decription of a simple task but I think using this guide anybody who is anyway handy at all should be well capable of doing this.

As always you do this at your own risk if you are having trouble PM me and I will talk you through whatever difficulty you are having.

Enjoy

Red

hay redshift you seam to know what your on about with the aircom units would you happen to know were i can get a wiring diagram for one mine's giving me trouble ?

altor

krs wrote: »

hay redshift you seam to know what your on about with the aircom units would you happen to know were i can get a wiring diagram for one mine's giving me trouble ?

What problem are you having krs ?

krs

hay trying to add a digi to txt me but need to find what outputs trigger the digi to set it up , would love some help

altor

What panel and digi is it ?

krs

altor wrote: »

What panel and digi is it ?

looking to add a texacom voice dialer and its the big panel with two antenna sticking out the top of it . don't know much else about the panel do .

altor

krs wrote: »

looking to add a texacom voice dialer and its the big panel with two antenna sticking out the top of it . don't know much else about the panel do .

Sounds like a concord panel. Do you have engineer access to the alarm ?
Did you know there is a dialer built into the panel that can dial one phone in the event of an alarm activation and omits a series of alarm tones to let you know the alarm has activated.