ADSL exchanges and stuff

jwt

Couple of questions I am struggling to answer.

How many exchanges are there in ROI?

How many of these are currently enabled for ADSL?

If X number have been enabled in Y months can we safely predict the time span for total coverage?

Whats the furthest Radsl has actually (in real life in Ireland) been used?

FRIACO is supposedly being introduced in mid June. Is this still likely or has it slipped?


I appreciate that these are questions that have been covered in older threads but times change and a lot of these threads date quickly or don't give definite answers.

Thanks

JWT

DannyD

http://ocean.ucc.ie/02/tjod1/exchange.html

A list of 021 exchanges and adsl info for Cork only though

zz03

Originally posted by jwt
Couple of questions I am struggling to answer.

How many exchanges are there in ROI?

(Assuming by "ROI" you mean Republic of Ireland, a country registered with the UN and assigned country codes "IRL" and "IE", and not "ROI" or anything else). IRL is on every car, every drivers license, every passport, etc issued by/registered in the State. [/RANTMODE]

I would guestimate that there are about 75 MDFs (main distribution frames) enabled for DSL either by eircom or ESAT BT (as an unbundlee).

I don't know the exact number of MDFs in the state. There is generally one in every town / village of any size. The numbers allocated to telephone exchanges are grouped by MDF. e.g. 60 000 to 60 999 = Village/town X; 63 000 to 63999 = village / town Y. Both are served by the same "exchange" which could be situated in a different town or city and even county. Some MDFs might only have a few hundred subscribers and typically occupy a small building in a local village. If that village is to get DSL, the DSLAM for the area might be installed in this "box". The DSLAM could also be installed in a street cabinet. If you had very long loops running from the MDF, one could put a cabinet based DSLAM further down the line near a cluster of subscribers.


DSL therefore has little or nothing really to do with the "telephone exchange" - and this is particularly the case outside urban areas. You could blow up or burn a telephone exchange and providing the MDF is still in place DSL could still be provided to subscribers to that exchange. The MDF is nothing more than a big junction box where the cables that go out to the subscribers' premises are terminated.

If X number have been enabled in Y months can we safely predict the time span for total coverage?

No! Non urban areas with smaller MDFs take time to get around to and provision.

Whats the furthest Radsl has actually (in real life in Ireland) been used?

Don't know. Does it matter? It is not really a limiting factor with newer DSL technologies and cabinet based DSLAMs and range extenders etc.

FRIACO is supposedly being introduced in mid June. Is this still likely or has it slipped?

FRIACO is nothing more than a freephone number for dial-up internet access. The relevant question is more likely to be whether the ISP you wish to use has a POP in your local call area. Until they do while FRIACO might be up and running, it won't be available in your area. There is no "national" FRIACO which would allow an ISP to plug into the eircom network at a single point and offer FRIACO to all its customers.

zz..

zz03

Originally posted by DannyD
http://ocean.ucc.ie/02/tjod1/exchange.html

A list of 021 exchanges and adsl info for Cork only though

DSL is also available on Wellington Road, Dennehy's X, and Ballincollig.

The notes are out of date in terms of which service provider offers service in which area. Some service providers are totally ignored (eg Netsource) which is available on all eircom wholesale bitstream MDFs.

Finally most of the numbering ranges are about four years out of date!

zz..

LFCFan

Originally posted by zz03
Don't know. Does it matter? It is not really a limiting factor with newer DSL technologies and cabinet based DSLAMs and range extenders etc.

I thought DSL was totally dependant on length of the copper to your house? I thought that the line had to be totally clear or any sort of amps, attenuators etc?

Newer DSL technology? Are you having a laugh. We're just about getting the basic DSL technology in Ireland so I'd say that, yes, range is an issue.

FRIACO is nothing more than a freephone number for dial-up internet access. The relevant question is more likely to be whether the ISP you wish to use has a POP in your local call area. Until they do while FRIACO might be up and running, it won't be available in your area. There is no "national" FRIACO which would allow an ISP to plug into the eircom network at a single point and offer FRIACO to all its customers.

zz..

Is FRIACO not gonna be available through an 1893 number or something like that so it will be available countrywide? I didn't think they would ever use freephone numbers.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by zz03
There is no "national" FRIACO which would allow an ISP to plug into the eircom network at a single point and offer FRIACO to all its customers.

UTV are rolling it out nationally in June.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by LFCFan
Is FRIACO not gonna be available through an 1893 number or something like that so it will be available countrywide? I didn't think they would ever use freephone numbers.

FRIACO does not use freefone numbers. UTV have announced that it will be available nationwide in June.

zz03

Originally posted by SkepticOne
UTV are rolling it out nationally in June.

FRIACO is a wholesale product provided by eircom to ISPs. In order for UTV to provide nationwide service they will have to run their feed to each eircom local POP.

zz..

zz03

Originally posted by SkepticOne
FRIACO does not use freefone numbers. UTV have announced that it will be available nationwide in June.

When the customer's modem dials 1893 they are not billed for the call. Hence it is a freephone number in the same way as 1800.

When someone calls 1800 999 999 they are only dialling a virtual number. It has to be translated by the network into a regular geographic number for the call to be switched. The exact same process has to take place when one dials an 1893 number.

The only real difference is tariff. Wholesale 1800 is sold by the second. Wholesale 1893 is sold by the month.

zz..

zz03

Originally posted by LFCFan
I thought DSL was totally dependant on length of the copper to your house?

While basic old fashioned ADSL has loop length limitations in the 3 to 5kms range. SHDSL has a range of up to 12kms. If you have a cluster of subscribers beyond DSL range you put the DSLAM nearer to them (perhaps mounted on an eircom pole).

Newer DSL technology? Are you having a laugh. We're just about getting the basic DSL technology in Ireland so I'd say that, yes, range is an issue.

It is just a matter of slotting a different card into the DSLAM and getting the customer to purchase a compatible modem at their end.

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RFHost

That's not true. I cannot remember the specifics but UTV do not need to provide Bandwidth to every one of Eircoms POPS. They simply connect to one and everything is routed through that location. Otherwise it would take forever before FRIACO was widely available. I believed it's refered to as single tandem FRIACO.

Originally posted by zz03
FRIACO is a wholesale product provided by eircom to ISPs. In order for UTV to provide nationwide service they will have to run their feed to each eircom local POP.

zz..

LFCFan

Originally posted by zz03
It is just a matter of slotting a different card into the DSLAM and getting the customer to purchase a compatible modem at their end.

zz..

Yes, and ADSL is just a matter of upgrading some exchanges but it's still taking forever. €ircon are not interested in any newer technologies. It's a miracle they're even doing what they are the useless gets!

zz03

Originally posted by RFHost
That's not true. I cannot remember the specifics but UTV do not need to provide Bandwidth to every one of Eircoms POPS. They simply connect to one and everything is routed through that location. Otherwise it would take forever before FRIACO was widely available. I believed it's refered to as single tandem FRIACO.

They either have to connect to each eircom primary (about 50 points around the country) or buy a wagon load of leased line capacity to transport everything to their central point.

All they get under the FRIACO tariff is the local dial-up connection at a flat monthly rate. Everything else is extra.

zz..

jwt

Las time I looked I was living in the Republic of Ireland not Ireland, Eire, IRL or IE. In the same way that China is referred to as ROC or RoC. USSR USA etc......

Currently ADSL is failing for people based on line quality and distance so the question remains whats the furthest distance RADSL been used in real life in Ireland, not in theory, but in practise.


JWT

Synkronite

Just to let you know- both ballincollig and douglas exchanges in cork have been upgraded by EsatBT and Eircom respectively. Im not sure if others have been upgraded also.

Im not sure about Ballincollig, but in Douglas the exchange is situated behind the church in that little lane that goes between the two grave yards and it serves all adjoining areas of Douglas, Donnybrook, Grange and Frankfield.

Urban Weigl

Originally posted by jwt
Whats the furthest Radsl has actually (in real life in Ireland) been used?

Assuming there aren't any faults on the line, you should be able to get about 6km out of RADSL. This would be no different for Ireland, though we might have more bad lines, but there are bound to be some that will work to that range. Remember that this is the length of the line... So for example you might only be 2km from the exchange but your line might already be over the limit due to the way its run to your house.

In the UK BT quotes 5.5km, but I know people who have it and are over 6km from the exchange. In Germany they quote 6km. You'll probably be able to find more by searching on Google. Also newer DSL variants such as SHDSL will work up to 12km and beyond, often at higher maximum speeds.

DMT

Originally posted by zz03
(Assuming by "ROI" you mean Republic of Ireland, a country registered with the UN and assigned country codes "IRL" and "IE", and not "ROI" or anything else). IRL is on every car, every drivers license, every passport, etc issued by/registered in the State. [/RANTMODE]

[anti-bs mode]
country code != abbreviation
[/anti-bs mode]

Originally posted by jwt
Last time I looked I was living in the Republic of Ireland not Ireland, Eire, IRL or IE.

According to the constitution the official name of this country *is* "Ireland". Under the 1948 Republic of Ireland Act this country can also be referred to the "Republic of Ireland".

But none of this off-topic madness has anything to do with IOFFL, so in an effort to post something relevent to the thread:

From here:
RADSL increases the maximum distance supported from 3.5 to around 5.5 kilometres.

So there!! :ninja:

douglasman

Originally posted by Synkronite
Just to let you know- both ballincollig and douglas exchanges in cork have been upgraded by EsatBT and Eircom respectively. Im not sure if others have been upgraded also.

Im not sure about Ballincollig, but in Douglas the exchange is situated behind the church in that little lane that goes between the two grave yards and it serves all adjoining areas of Douglas, Donnybrook, Grange and Frankfield.

Douglas is purely Eircom only, EsatBT is only doing 40 exchanges across Ireland and the Cork ones are Churchfield, Quaker Road, Cork Central and Mallow. Where did you hear EsatBT was in Douglas ?

SkepticOne

Originally posted by douglasman
Douglas is purely Eircom only, EsatBT is only doing 40 exchanges across Ireland and the Cork ones are Churchfield, Quaker Road, Cork Central and Mallow. Where did you hear EsatBT was in Douglas ?

I think Esat are doing the same thing as Via and selling services based on Eircom's DSL equipment. So it's where ever Eircom have DSL enabled exchanges that counts.

zz03

Originally posted by jwt
Las time I looked I was living in the Republic of Ireland not Ireland, Eire, IRL or IE.

I wasn't suggesting that you or anybody else was not living in the Republic of Ireland. ROI is a dumb down used by certain elements of the British media when referring to the State and I have no intention of endorsing it by default or otherwise.

Currently ADSL is failing for people based on line quality and distance so the question remains whats the furthest distance RADSL been used in real life in Ireland, not in theory, but in practise.

No it is not. The vast majority of loops in Ireland are within DSL range, using one form of the technology or another. Those that aren't within range can be made to be so using DSL extenders and remote DSLAMs. Anyone who says otherwise is only a peddler of feeble excuses. Eircom have set a very high rejection threshold to keep as many people as possible on dial-up. Line quality problems are for the most part unrepaired faults. Reported or otherwise. Most of the line plant in Ireland is among the newest in Europe. There is no excuse.

zz..

zz03

Originally posted by douglasman
Douglas is purely Eircom only, EsatBT is only doing 40 exchanges across Ireland and the Cork ones are Churchfield, Quaker Road, Cork Central and Mallow. Where did you hear EsatBT was in Douglas ?

With the introduction of less expensive wholesale bitstream pricing it would appear that ESAT BT have given up on (new?) loop unbundling and are using the eircom bitstream offer instead.

This would imply that ESAT BT DSL is (will be) available at all ESAT BT unbundled POPs as well as eircom DSL locations.

zz..

zz03

Originally posted by DMT
quote:

---

From here:
RADSL increases the maximum distance supported from 3.5 to around 5.5 kilometres.

---

So there!!

RADSL (rate adaptive) isn't really one of the new DSL technologies!

You are still driving the same old model T DSL car. With RA they just gave it gears so you could shift down to go up a hill without stalling.

It was a natural for eircom to go for non rate adaptive DSL at the outset to justify dumping as many DSL prospects as possible!

zz..

DSLinAbsentia

ROI = Really Outdated Infrastructure

This is the IrelandOFFLine board after all!

Synkronite

Originally posted by SkepticOne
I think Esat are doing the same thing as Via and selling services based on Eircom's DSL equipment. So it's where ever Eircom have DSL enabled exchanges that counts.

Im sorry I didnt make myself clearer, Ballincollig has been upgraded by EsatBT and Douglas by Eircom, however IOL Broadband (RADSL) is avaliable through the Eircom enabled exchange (not till Mid-May though) EsatBT's ADSL products arent avaliable, hence I believe IOL Broadband is basically a resell of Eircom's bitstream as others have pointed out.

douglasman

Originally posted by Synkronite
Im sorry I didnt make myself clearer, Ballincollig has been upgraded by EsatBT and Douglas by Eircom, however IOL Broadband (RADSL) is avaliable through the Eircom enabled exchange (not till Mid-May though) EsatBT's ADSL products arent avaliable, hence I believe IOL Broadband is basically a resell of Eircom's bitstream as others have pointed out.

Actually both douglas and ballincollig are Eircom ADSL/RADSL exchanges, and IOL broadband is reselling Eircom bitstream in both cases.

gombín

The total no. of "exchanges" in ROI or Ireland, or whatever you want to call it, is just over 1000. This includes all RSUs and Cabinets.

spongebob

Originally posted by jwt
Couple of questions I am struggling to answer.
How many exchanges are there in ROI?

1100

How many of these are currently enabled for ADSL?

Around 80 now, April 2003

If X number have been enabled in Y months can we safely predict the time span for total coverage?

This will rise to

110 By December 2003

and then

150 By September 2004

The Other 950 No Plans Whatsoever , thats 86% of all the exchanges in the State although many are small and remote.

The Plan MAY be revised but only in conjunction with the rollout for the Hutchison 3G contract and only if Eircom win a large slab of the Network Rollout. If the ESB wins the Hutchison 3G contract next month (as is likely) then the rollout will not go beyond the 150 out of 1100 that we have been promised.

In the event that Eircom do get some or a lot of the Hutchison 3G Business then they will start to expand beyond the first 150 Exchanges in around 2 and a half years from now. The initial 3G coverage requirement is 53% of the population by 31 December 2005 (PDF page 15). The initial 150 Exchanges to be provisioned by End September 2004 will cover 53% OF the population anyway.

Therefore the expansion of DSL from the current phased 150 will not really kick in until early 2006 as the second target for 3G coverage, that of 80% population coverage, becomes pressing. That target must be met by 31 December 2007 and it is likely that the Eircom buildout (if required) will be rearloaded into the second half of 2007.

M