Daylight Running Lights

mike65

I am sure we've discussed this before but while looking for info an another matter I found this
http://www.dog.org/2002/abstracts/87_e.html
which seems to prove beyond doubt that Daylight Running Lights save lives, indeed if applied across the EU over 5000 fatalites could be avoided. Think of the impact here, where the government through Seamus
Brennan is pursuing a decent safety strategy. I'm deffo going to write a letter to Famous Seamus on this matter.

The reason I was googling for headlights info was a piece in todays Sunday Tribune which mentioned that EU legistation is being ammended to allow the use of
swivel headlights, just like the Citroen DS featured
decades ago. I wonder does the EU know there's nothing new in the idea!

Mike.

Mercury_Tilt

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daveirl

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Silent Bob

It's been shown that bright lights impair peoples ability to judge speed/location of approaching traffic.

e.g. you're pulling out of a junction, you look right, see a single bright light (it's a motorbike). It's ages away though.
Then you look left, then right again and the light barely seems to have moved, so you pull out and only when you've made it across and the bike speeds by do you realise how close (and wrong) you were.

The RAF experimented with bright lights as a form of camoflage on their bombers during night time raids in Egypt. AA gunners couldn't workout where the bombers were becuase they couldn't judge the speed of the lights.

And yes, some peoples dipped headlights ARE that bright. And when they're badly adjusted it's worse!

Instead of compulsory dips could someone be smarter to legislate for compulsory sidelights. All the evidence for drls comes from scandinavian countries which spend more time in darkness than we do.

Victor

Personally, I find the problem to be at night when people have their lights too bright or one is broken, it is then very difficult to judge whether you are seeing a car and a motorbike, who is in front, how far away they are , etc.

Originally posted by Silent Bob
All the evidence for drls comes from scandinavian countries which spend more time in darkness than we do.

Actually everywhere in the world get the same amount of daytime, when averaged through the year.

Another problem is "white" indicators, which are very difficult to see during the day. (Is this a Renault problem? being French they just change then main filter / lens from yellow to clear).

Silent Bob

Originally posted by Victor
Actually everywhere in the world get the same amount of daytime, when averaged through the year.

It is true that the average amount of light is the same, but the average amount of time spent driving in twilight/darkness is higher in Scandinavian countries.
Brightness outside the main driving times (e.g. when people are sleeping) adds to the average daylight but hardly anybody is on the roads.

Anyway I would much rather see compulsory sidelights not dips, and maybe an ad or two on the TV to edumucate people as to when to use lights (including fog lamps)

pclancy

why would volvo and saab have the lights on features on their cars if it wasnt a good idea? surely they researched it all and found it to be much safer? I think lights on is a great idea. you probably wouldnt even notice sidelights in the daytime.

i also think there should be something done about people having their full lights on at night and blinding the crap out of people who are driving towards them. I had a crash cos of that a nearly got ripped apart so i defo think there should be some kind of safety system brought in. no idea what tho!

dont get me started on fog lights.............hate the feckin things on blinding you for no aparant reason. some people dont realise how bright they are.

Silent Bob

Originally posted by pclancy
why would volvo and saab have the lights on features on their cars if it wasnt a good idea? surely they researched it all and found it to be much safer? I think lights on is a great idea. you probably wouldnt even notice sidelights in the daytime.

It's a good idea when there's a lot of driving done in twilight conditions, that's my point. But we don't live in Scandinavia do we?

What use are DRL's on a bright sunny day though? Why can't we leave the responsibility of when to use lights with the driver!?!?

I mean we're allowed drive around in self-propelled machinery that weighs more than a tonne, surely we can be trusted to know when to turn the lights on. And if people don't, then let's get the Gardai fine them and give them points for dangerous driving instead of giving people points for driving 6mph over the limit...

Silvera

Daytime running lights are an excellent idea.
Parking lights (sidelights) are of little use when a vehicle is on the move.
In most European countries, it is ILLEGAL to drive a vehicle on parking lights only - i.e. Parking lights may only be used when a vehicle is stationary.

IMO, at the very least, motorcycles should have to use dipped lights during the daytime. Again, this is already compulsory in most EU countries.

Actually, some car makers are including DRL's on new cars in the USA. So they obviously see them as an excellent safety feature -even with all their sunshine.

Silvera.

Redshift

This should be made compulsary ASAP There is a statistic somewhere I don't remember where I saw it but it was something of the order of 33% less likely to have an accident when using DLR. I drive a company vehicle and it is company policy to use lights all the time if I'm seen driving without them I could lose my safe driving bonus at crimbo :eek:
Alot of people seem to have difficulty using their lights properly I don't know if it's laziness or ignorance but I hate people who leave it untill the very last moment of dusk before lighting up also people think it's ok to drive around on their sidelights or worse still people usually in micras who don't use headlights at all prefering to just use the front fogs "coz it makes me motor look kewl"
:mad: :mad: :mad:

I wish people would realise that fog lights are called fog lights for a reason if there is no fog they shouldn't be on it's as simple as that and that goes for front and rear fogs in case any of those people are reading.

Victor

Originally posted by Silent Bob
It is true that the average amount of light is the same, but the average amount of time spent driving in twilight/darkness is higher in Scandinavian countries.

But we are talking about DRL, so if they have more time in twilight/darkness (I concur with the twilight bit) then they have less need for DLR (except in twilight, but you are meant to have your light on then anyway).

Have you demolished your argument?

pclancy

I mean we're allowed drive around in self-propelled machinery that weighs more than a tonne, surely we can be trusted to know when to turn the lights on. And if people don't, then let's get the Gardai fine them and give them points for dangerous driving instead of giving people points for driving 6mph over the limit...

thats exactly what i mean, people CANT be trusted to judge when they should have their lights on. I've HAD a crash because some gimp had his full lights on when he shouldnt have, ive got the scars to prove it. It should be tought that parking lights are for parking not driving, fog lights are for fog and dipped lights are for driving when visability is in anyway imposed ie when it starts to get dark. There are also a shocking amount of people dont drive with lights on in rain or snow. I think gardai should have the power to pull people for not showing the correct lights. It would save lives.

Silent Bob

Originally posted by Victor
But we are talking about DRL, so if they have more time in twilight/darkness (I concur with the twilight bit) then they have less need for DLR (except in twilight, but you are meant to have your light on then anyway).

Have you demolished your argument?

/me detects a huge amount of pedanticism here...

When you drive in mostly twilight/dark conditions it is safer to have dips come on automatically. The Daytime in DRL refers to the hours which are consider to be during the day, not to actual hours of sunlight.

from MAG UK
Daytime headlight laws have been tried in Israel where they have deliberately tried to assess the effectiveness of this measure by having periods when lights on applies and periods when it does not. The statistics concluded that it didn't make any difference.

from http://www.lightsout.org/docs/30yrs.pdf
In 1972 daytime lights were first made compulsory in Finland. They have now also been made compulsory in at least five other countries. Yet thirty years on, a reduction of accidents from motorcar daytime lights remains unproven.

also from http://www.lightsout.org/docs/30yrs.pdf
Further, apart from the side-effects, whereas in 1978, English authors found that 8.7% more pedestriams notived a motorcycle using daytime lights, just under four years later in 1982, they found that only 4.8% more pedestrians did so.
Or in short, pedestrians were 'acclimatising' to motorcycle daytime lights