Drunkeness, violence and pub closing times

honkdub

with all this anti-drunk stuff in the public awareness at the mo
i get miffed when ever i see violence and drunkness related to the time pubs are closed at

I know we're not like the continent but they get to party all night if they want to...

the victim support group and the usi put out statements recently saying pub hours should be reduced or not extended beyond what they are now

i don't drink but i like to go out late when im going out-out
and i like to go clubbing

these groups do need to address the issue but focuing on things that actuall make a difference would help the time of pub closing mkaes no difference its attitude to drink etc that needs to be changed thats plain to see(how u do that is another question)

The Corinthian

Correlation does not necessary imply causation - just because there has been an increase in violence on the streets at night, coinciding with nightclubs being open longer, does not actually mean that the one has caused the other. Many other factors must be considered, including the change in drinking habits (the increase in consumption of so-called alcopops, for example), demographics and disposable incomes.

The culture of drinking in continental Europe is not as concentrated as it is in the UK and Ireland, where is appears to be central to the social scene. Drunken behaviour in southern Europe, for example, is often strongly frowned upon and the need for Dutch courage seen as a sign of character weakness. As a result, creating a parallel is not appropriate.

I personally favour longer hours, but that is also because I would have dinner before going out to socialize, and thus start late before drinking (a hybrid of the continental and Anglo-Irish models, I suppose ). But that’s just me and not everyone does that, especially those who start straight after work on a Friday.

It is probably important that the causes for this violence be further examined before any action is taken, otherwise we could well fail to deal with the root cause of the problem.

seamus

Originally posted by The Corinthian
It is probably important that the causes for this violence be further examined before any action is taken, otherwise we could well fail to deal with the root cause of the problem.

I'm inclined to agree. After a certain point, public drunkenness != public order offences. And late night opening != more public drunkenness.

If anything, pubs/clubs being open for longer helps curb the amount of public drunkenness. Simply from personal observation, people who have the intention of going to clubs tend to drink slower, so they're not completely locked by the time they're going to the club (myself included :rolleyes: ). People who aren't going to a club or who are going home for reasons of money, transport etc, tend to drink faster and get drunker. As regards myself, I'm usually a little more drunk, but less 'wahey! I'm drunk! let's go do mad stuff' at 2am than at 12am because of tiredness, etc.

It would seem to me that people are drinking more because of something rotten at the core of Irish society. Drinking does not cause people to become more violent, it simply removes their self-control over frustrations or violent tendancies that were already there. Crime had risen dramatically in Ireland recently. It's only to be expected that drink-related crime will also rise. IMO, this signals something very wrong with Irish society, and I can't see what it is, but it worries me. I'm basing this on what I've seen with my own friends. My best mate, niceest guy you'd ever meet. We started drinking together, at around 14/15, and neither of us have ever been in a fight in the city. We've certainly broke some up, or had guys try to start on us. Last September he started in 2nd year in art college, and suddenly he was a complete prick when drunk. I only saw this a month or two ago when one night a girl he doesn't get on with was winding him up. After that he bit the head off of everyone. Me, his girlfriend, and all his college mates. I was told that this had been going on since the start of the year, and he was always pissed off because the lecturers tell everyone, "you're ****, your art is ****, and you'll never amount to anything" (supposedly it makes better art :rolleyes: ).

This just illustrates for me that alcohol is only a catalyst for violence/disorder, not a cause. It's no use restricting opening times, or increasing taxes on drink. People will simply accomodate by drinking earlier and/or drinking at home. It's the social issues sitting in the background that need to be addressed.

(Sorry if this makes no sense, I was interrupted about 500 times while writing it)

swiss

I think this is more suited to humanities. I'll leave a (locked) copy of this thread here, so people can still view it, but if you want to continue it furthur, please take it there.

Personally, I feel that a lot of the alcohol related violence that we see is as a result of forcing large numbers of people onto the streets in the early hours of the morning. I feel that longer opening hours can help to alleviate the throngs that pile onto the streets in the early hours, and hence curb the level of violence which seems to be spiralling somewhat.

Like the Corinthian, I like to head out late, unless I decide to spend the afternoon in a pub with a few friends. Sometimes I don't go out until as late as midnight - 1am. While it is annoying to get kicked out at what I perceive to be a reasonably early time, I can understand the motives behind doing so. Unfortunately, some people are going to engage in loutish behaviour when they are drunk irrespective of what time they leave a given establishment. I think it would be best to allow easier dispersion of crowds (and hence reducing the occasions for serious muppetry) by lengthening opening hours.

All IMHO, of course.