mini rant : Why I might be a bit cynical about telco Sales/Marketing people.

Occidental

Not intended to offend anyone, but might give some of the telco employees here a view from the customers side of the fence.

First of all I have no ties with any telco in Ireland or anywhere else and have never worked for any of them in the past. I have one relation who works for Eircom, but I try not to hold that against him.

Now for my angle on, and why, I might be a bit cynical when it comes to telcos. Background would be a Telecom’s spend of 40-50k per annum, spread across a few providers with past experience and numerous years of just about everyone in the marketplace.

New Account Manager/Area Manager/Regional Manager/Business Executive (lets call him Fred) gets appointed to your area. Fred calls to ask for an appointment. You tell Fred that you have a number of issues with his company and their failure to deliver their promises in the past. Fred assures you that much of this has changed and that he will explain all this when he meets you.

Fred arrives for meeting and proceeds to provide you with a general presentation you’re not interested in, but it seems a shame to stop him as he’s obviously enjoying it so much. After a bit of steering Fred finally listens to your current and past problems with his company. While looking slightly (but not too much) embarrassed he takes notes of the problems and promises that they will be sorted out as soon as he’s back in the office. Fred takes copies of your various bills from your telecoms providers so that he can review your account.

After a few days Fred sends you an e-mail with attached quote, showing you the marvellous savings which can be made if you move all of your business to his company. He follows this up with a phone call to see if you are suitably impressed with his pricing. At the mention of outstanding issues (which were your real concern), Fred assures you that these are being looked at internally, but that this shouldn’t stop you from moving all your business to them.

Over the next week you call Fred a few times to see how he’s getting on with the outstanding issues. Fred passes you on to a customer service rep (Lets call her Ethel), who he says, is better able to deal with these issues. Ethel has been in the company less than a week and has no idea how to resolve your problems and is probably just as frustrated as you are. After a few days of getting no where Ethel passes you on to her supervisor (lets call her Medusa). Medusa listens briefly to your problems (which she has no interest in) and says she’ll get back to you.

After a few weeks you chase up Ethel and Medusa to see how they’re getting on. Ethel has moved to a new section, which does not have phones. Medusa does have a phone but it’s incoming only, which is a bit of a pity, as she never answers it. In a final attempt to get something sorted you return to Fred, but find he is no longer your account manager as your spend doesn’t justify his presence.


Six months/a year later a New Account Manager/Area Manager/Regional Manager/Business Executive (lets call him Fred) gets appointed to your area. Fred calls to ask for an appointment. You tell Fred that you have a number of issues with his company and their failure to deliver their promises in the past. Fred assures you that much of this has changed and that he will explain all this when he meets you.

The Clown Man

Ah the joys and woes of the bureaucracy!

God I hate that.

Still though, these things will never change in companies that employ such a large number of people and whose turnover is usually huge. Unfortunately, there is little or nothing that can be done as far as I can see. (I used to work for one of these type of comanies.)

A better internal structure and better information management would probably help, but who wants to change the accepted bureaucractic structure employed by companies throughout the world?

Unfortunately, with that many cogs in the mechanism, a few are going to be rusty or misplaced, and therefore the whole thing will not work properly.

A theological business debate that will not see a remedy in the near future, I believe.

DeVore

Originally posted by The Clown Man
Ah the joys and woes of the bureaucracy!

God I hate that.

Still though, these things will never change in companies that employ such a large number of people and whose turnover is usually huge. Unfortunately, there is little or nothing that can be done as far as I can see. (I used to work for one of these type of comanies.)

<snip>

A theological business debate that will not see a remedy in the near future, I believe.

No, things will change. Theres a storm coming and its being led by companies like UTV and places like Boards.ie

Do you realise that this is the FIRST TIME IN HISTORY that people like occidental can broadcast his feelings and meet with other people who ALL have the same problems.

Step 1 in a revolution is realising: you arent the only one whos mad as hell and aint going to take it any more.

Step 2 is choice.

Companies that win are going to be companies like Komplett that take on the fight, that change and grow into a SERVICE BASED company where the customer is KING not "userbase".

Whats going to happen? I dunno... but the big companies (particularly the Telcos) are dinosaurs...and we know what happened to them.

I remember being on a mailing list years and years ago that was made up of Indigo users, most of whom were VERY VERY unhappy with the service. They used the mailing list to compare notes and I guess I was one of the people putting the boot in. (Nevvver).

I rang one of the poor Indigo support grunts on the phone and talked to him and he sounded genuinely scared. I remember clearly what he said

"These people are talking to each other now... no other company runs the systems where their customers can talk to each other like this. I cant tell them they are an isolated case any more."


DeV.

echomadman

"These people are talking to each other now... no other company runs the systems where their customers can talk to each other like this. I cant tell them they are an isolated case any more."

the main reason I left the tech support field of work was that I could not stomach the utter bullsh1t and outright lies I was made to tell customers

spewing corporate rhetoric all day left me with an intense hatred for "faceless" corporations. and outsourced, uninformed tech support

even typing this post is making my stomach boil as i remember it

The Clown Man

The reason I think that there will not be enough change in the near future is because although it is precisely the people who are mad as hell that will make the change, it will be some time before they will be in a suitable position to do anything about it.

These Dino-Companies will continue to bend the consumer over the veritable counter because it suits them and there is no one to stop them.

The sources of this bureaucratic idiocy (namely semi-state companies and privatised public service providers) are cosying up nice and snug in their highly regulated, highly protected, heated and cushioned armchairs.

None of us that would like to make a difference will be in any position to do so until an alternative is allowed. Until the market is deregulated and companies can start offering customer orientated service as a primary objective.

Companies like UTV are taking a more pro-active approach but are they yet the other end of the spectrum? Can they offer a customer orientated product when they are limited by eircoms incompetence? Will they make a sufficient impact on the market to prompt eircom to get up off its ass? I sincerely doubt it.

After all, eircom practically own the communications sector. Nothing is done until they give the go-ahead. They are the leaders and dictators of the market.

And if the sector that has had so many attempts at deregulation is still so choked, what chance do the other sectors have?

Eircom are not the only service providers that are incompetent.

As long as the markets are so tightly restrained the current trend of bureaucracy will reign. Until the dictators wither and die and are replaced by the very victims of their disastrous policies will there be someone in a suitable position that will hopefully know what the difference between a desirable service and an undesirable service are.


I always hate to sound pessimistic but in this case I think I'll stick with realistic.

DeVore

I actually have a lot of respect for the tech support grunts so long as they arent perpetuating the bullshít.

They are civilians in this war, human shields used to weigh down the caller with inertia so that it becomes just too much hassle to be bothered complaining.

Specfically I believe Eircoms days to be numbered unless they change, and change fast. People are outting their lies and half-truths and better support is available from people who at least APPEAR to care about your business.

Read NOLOGO if you want to get very very angry about this topic.

DeV.

Occidental

The post at the top of the page was intended to give a view of telcos from a customer’s point of view, but was not intended to say that customers are just sitting back and accepting it.

The marketing bull**** now seems to be focused on consumers and small companies, much of the medium/large business having already been lost. Marketing will only go so far and is no match for multiple new entrants with better products and service.

I’ve seen the same arrogance and attitude from many of the large IT companies over the years. Some got there act together and are still with us, but many many more are just distant memories, or exist as a shadow of their former selves. If Eircom don’t change you won’t have to worry about them in a few years time, they’ll be sold off in a fire sale to the highest bidder and the cleanout will begin.


As for the tech support people, some good, some bad, although the techies are always more likely to slip up and tell you the actual truth.

echomadman

although the techies are always more likely to slip up and tell you the actual truth.

<rage>
Get "monitored" doing this and its a verbal warning,

two week crash course indoctrination

repeat after me
"as far as I know sir/madam, there is no Known issue with that model, Let me escalate this case to our engineers. Why dont you call back tomorrow to see if there's any new information"


lather rinse and repeat with each subsequent caller with the *exact* same problem

most call centres value drones who will regurgitate policy at command, not technical people who may actually help the customers,
helping people generally makes you miss your "call targets" for that day, and ****s up your glorious team leaders stats.

remeber in general "first call resolution" is less important than getting you off the line in 8-10 minutes or less.


</rage>

DeVore

ngggggggh. Absolutely bang on.

Urge to hunt them all down, rising.


People wonder why I use the term "cheapen the human spirit" and ask if I'm not being OTT.

Read about Channel1 and the way they FORCE children to watch 12 minutes per day of propaganda for their preferred corporate sponsor in the classroom so the school can have sponsored equipment (heavily branded with Swooshes, of course). The TV sets are specially designed not to have volume controls or fast forwards so the teachers can't control them.

Read about car manufacturers who (as Fight Club pointed out) dont do recalls if the expected lawsuit costs from relatives of the victims of car crashes is less then the cost of the recall.

Schools which arent allowed to sell milk since they are "sponsored" by Coke. Or the young man in the states who was EXPELLED for wearing a pepsi t-shirt in protest on a dress-casual day.

I think I'll start a post on Humanities...

DeV.

Occidental

In a previous incarnation I did some IT rubbish on the set up of large customer complaint call centre, wryly called CARESS. I will be forever unsure if it reminded me more of dancing bears or Mart & Market.

Dustaz

Dev, thats all totally off-topic. You know the rules :P

DeVore

yeah I know... I think maybe we should move this to humanities (and leave a link here).

And when I say we... I really mean you

Its your call... I'll try to keep on topic.

I'm channelling Paddy20 lately on this forum

DeV.

sceptre

Originally posted by DeVore
yeah I know... I think maybe we should move this to humanities (and leave a link here).

Agreed and done. I see Dev has recently been mostly reading Michael Moore and Naomi Klein:)

dahamsta

Originally posted by sceptre
Agreed and done. I see Dev has recently been mostly reading Michael Moore and Naomi Klein:)

If you want creepy, try some James Elroy. Fictional but makes you think.

adam

DeVore

Originally posted by sceptre
Agreed and done. I see Dev has recently been mostly reading Michael Moore and Naomi Klein:)

Amongst others. I was given Naomi Klein by a friend who had endured one too many of my rants on the evils of marketing (like someone who thinks the sauna's too hot and so puts water on the coals!).

Anyway, you arent exactly mystic meg considering I did say that in another thread (or earlier? neh?).My dislike of "marketeers" and "advertisers" is well known and long established.

Never read Michael Moore but I believe he's good if a bit ranty.

Reading Dilbert is all you need to know about managing people. You just invert it.

DeV.

DeVore

Btw, occidental... have you been living in the Spin offices without me knowing it?

I mean, your piece is f*ckin' uncannily accurate. I've had three "Corporate Account Managers" for the company from a hosting company we *used* to deal with who did exactly this to us...

Dev.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Dustaz

.


edit: forgot this was in humanities now. Dont want to get jumped on by the essay brigade

DeVore

ah dusty! Give us a while of yer wisdom there sure

You are allowed post outside IOFFL you know

DeV.

Clintons Cat

Globalization and its Discontents by Joseph Stiglitz should be worth a browse.Written by the former Chief Economist of the world bank,it provides an insiders critique of the failings of the IMF and the WTO and tries to find alternatives to the present status quo.
Here

Here

review here

Kell

Hi there. I have been working in the sales and marketing side of the business for a few years and I feel that in order to bring about change in the faceless organisations of which you mention it is largely down to individuals employed there to bring about a change. I have always been the one who in the face of the boss saying "tell the punter to fúck off" have fought the customer cause, because at the end of the day I dont want a píssed customer on my phone 10 times a day.

The problem with sales reps is that all training is focussed on "Sell as much as you can and ignore issues" rather than "sell as much as you can and make sure that they are so ecstatic with the service they'll keep coming back for more". I have worked with people in the past that had amazing sales figures yet 100% of their customers wouldent deal with them again.

Anyways, back to my original point. It's down to "fred" the regional account manager to effect change for his accounts. It's up to him to get onto technical and find out why that leased line took eight weeks to install and a further 8 to terminate. Not only that, it's up to him to be there when they plug in their router to apologise profusely and say "the first six months are on the house". Only then will punters be able to say, "yeah the service was a bit shoddy, but it worked out in the end but hey, I got six months free service".

K-

DeVore

Kell, thats the right idea!

I've worked in places where I've been told to do shoddy work and refused.

Sales people should realise that people are getting angry about being lied to and are beginning to value "service" when considering price comparisions.

DeV.

Hobbes

Odd, it's better to use sales/tele marketing people for your enjoyment. See how long you can wind them up before they leave.

You could of asked them to sing the proposal to you in the theme of your favorite showtune. If they refuse they are obviously not willing to close that sale.

LoBo

Good points by many here - keep it up

I have to say the initial poster really made me laugh when the name Medusa popped up