First major surrender...

mike65

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=4UMCVIRSJ5R24CRBAELCFEY?type=topNews&storyID=2426562

The 51st division of the conscript army has surendered,
this has been confirmed by both Washington and London. Perhaps a sign of things to come in the next day or two.

Mike.

gandalf

Not a major surprise there really Mike. It was expected all along that the conscripts would fold quite quickly.

The real test will be the Republican Guards after all if they feel they will be held to account for past crimes they will probably fight to the bitter end (I hope not just accessing the situation).

Gandalf.

mike65

Agreed, I would'nt expect the average "grunt" to sacrifice his life for Saddam. The inner personal guard
who are drawn from Saddams own /regionclan will proberly go down fighting if they can as they'll be adorning lamp posts across Baghdad otherwise.

Mike.

DriftingRain

I agree. I hope even after the bit of shock and awe today, that a speedy end is in sight!

The Surgeon

The regular army were never even a consideration. No proper training, no proper equipment, no motivation and drawn from Shi'ite (is that spelt right?!?) Moslems rather than Sunni where Saddam has most of his support. Besides, conscripts in any army are never as effective as professional soliders who spend their entire careers in training. And don't forget that in technological terms, this war is so one-sided it aint even funny.

No, the real fun for the invaders will come when they hit the cities on the ground and find themselves facing urban warfare with the Republican Guard and Special Republican Guard. The Yanks and Brits never even got to engage them in Gulf War I to test their reputation. That's allowed them to keep this mistique. I guess we'll soon find out if the reputation has been "got without merit" as Willie the Sheik would put it.

bonkey

Originally posted by gandalf
if they feel they will be held to account for past crimes they will probably fight to the bitter end

Yeah...yet again we see the realities of war.

After telling the world that nothing short of complete regime change was acceptable, the invading force is apparently telling the military leaders of the verious divisions to surrender, because it would better to play a part in the new Iraq than to die defending the old.

I'm curious as to how high-up military commanders can have a part in the new Iraq if we are to have complete regime change?

(And yes, I know the answer...I'm being somewhat rhetorical)

jc

Cork

Originally posted by bonkey
.

After telling the world that nothing short of complete regime change was acceptable, the invading force is apparently telling the military leaders of the verious divisions to surrender, because it would better to play a part in the new Iraq than to die defending the old.

I'm curious as to how high-up military commanders can have a part in the new Iraq if we are to have complete regime change?


jc

I hope that all Iraqis will play an active role in the future of Iraq. That the future of Iraq will be determined by it's people.

I think Iraqi soldiers will have a part to play in the New Iraq. A country with neighbours like Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey & Iran needs security.

Iraqis have seen enough war.


But - I think that the "First major surrender" - has got to be welcomed. If it curtails the length of this war or loss of live - it has to be welcomed.

I don't know about the Republicans Gaurd Loyalty. I know one Iraqi living in Ireland & he is very indepdantly minded.

(I know - he may not be representative).

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

DeVore

No, the real fun for the invaders will come when they hit the cities on the ground and find themselves facing urban warfare with the Republican Guard and Special Republican Guard.

Rather presumes there are cities left for "urban conflict" doesnt it...

DeV.

The Surgeon

Rather presumes there are cities left for "urban conflict" doesnt it...

Well, as much as I hate to compliment the Americans, they have actually managed to be surprisingly precise this time around. The smart bombs have certainly been in school for the last 12 years. Either that, or they actually have gunners now who can type in accurate grid references.