Shannon Open to Yankee War Machine!

mike65 · 19-03-2003 7:01pm #1

Its just been announced that Shannon will remain avilible to the US military.

Mike.

Frank Grimes · 19-03-2003 7:15pm

They've announced the wording of the motion that's going to be voted on tomorrow in the Dail.
Apparently Bertie thinks withdrawing access to the airport would be a "hostile act". Interesting choice of words.

davelerave · 20-03-2003 12:42am

well.i'm not pro war but realistically i guess they are right that it's in our best interests to allow use of shannon.the US have called for a show of hands on the iraq issue and we're putting our hand up.there seems to be a precedent and if so ,refusal would be viewed negatively.we may need to call on the us or britain for help down the road.

pro_gnostic_8 · 20-03-2003 1:18am

Realistically, it was never really in doubt that the Irish Gov would take this decision, was it?

At this grim time with war inevitable and perhaps only hours away it is oncumbent upon us to show our allegiance and support to America (the best friend we have in the world) and for once to not portray ourselves as an opportunistic "run with the hare; hunt with the hound" fence-sitting nation. Neutrality is not an issue now...... as war is commenced we need to demonstrate our oneness with the forces of Western democracy in the dismantling of a murderous tyrannical regime.

Lennoxschips · 20-03-2003 11:11am

My goodness, you should become dubya's speech writer.

Praetorian · 20-03-2003 11:13am

The ramifications could have been devastating for our economy if we had withdrawn Shannon. The Americans are pulling all their strings at the moment military / political / business.

Frank Grimes · 20-03-2003 11:16am

and for once to not portray ourselves as an opportunistic "run with the hare; hunt with the hound" fence-sitting nation

That's exactly what we're doing at the moment, or rather what the government is doing.

Victor · 20-03-2003 1:30pm

Originally posted by Frank_Grimes
Apparently Bertie thinks withdrawing access to the airport would be a "hostile act". Interesting choice of words.

What a gobsh***. Hostile acts are things like blockade, invasion or bombing, not saying "sorry you can't use our airport to manage your war".

Beruthiel · 20-03-2003 1:34pm

Originally posted by Victor
What a gobsh***. Hostile acts are things like blockade, invasion or bombing, not saying "sorry you can't use our airport to manage your war".

exactly Victor, that comment really pissed me off when I heard it, a total cop out!

Frank Grimes · 20-03-2003 1:50pm

Originally posted by Beruthiel
exactly Victor, that comment really pissed me off when I heard it, a total cop out!

A Bush-ism is what I was thinking.

dahamsta · 20-03-2003 1:56pm

A Bush-ism is what I was thinking.

He's doing a lot of that lately, he's turning back into Anorakman. We were speculating the other night that he's doing it on purpose as a defense mechanism. "Ah sure what would I know, I'm only Oirish."

adam

bonkey · 20-03-2003 2:09pm

I'd be curious as to his line of thought when he used that phrase.

Was he conveying a message that this is what he knew (i.e. the US have quietly told the Irish they would view it this way), or simply scaremongering the public to justify his decisions???

Personally, Id be inclined to go with the latter, but given the US "softly softly" approach with nations such as China and Russia, but its more aggressive "no special funding for you if you dont co-operate m8" stance with Turkey, I would like to know what - if any - pressure the US have brought to bear on the Irish government.

Personally, I dont believe Shannon - or Ireland - is that significant an asset for them to get really upset over, and that this is our government acting of its own accord, but I'm not entirely certain in that belief.

jc

Von · 20-03-2003 2:11pm

Wouldn't mind so much if they'd at least tried to get a few billion out of the americans in exchange. So much for the celtic tiger entrepreneurial spirit load of arse.

dathi1 · 20-03-2003 2:21pm

The ramifications could have been devastating for our economy if we had withdrawn Shannon.

Considering that 30 people are under 24/7 surveillance here by Special branch etc and lax immigration laws the possibility of localised suicide attacks on Irish / US Military personal based at Shannon or Irish civilian casualties would put the meaning of Terrorism into a new perspective in Ireland.

Bateman · 20-03-2003 4:49pm

>the possibility of localised suicide attacks on Irish / US Military personal based at Shannon

I wouldn't exactly say I'm living in ignorance of these things, but that sounds like complete scaremongering, although it is in line with Bertiespeak (or rather lack of speak) lately.

I agree that the mere chance of the US messing with economic interests here has prompted this. I doubt that Bertie turned to Dubya in the middle of the parade and asked him.

Victor · 02-04-2003 8:27pm

Sorry for digging this out again, I found this statement on the Aer Rianta website. I also saw footage on TV (of more American soldiers going to the Gulf) of a World Airways aircraft with soldiers carrying their rifles onto the plane themselves, not carried in the hold.

Cork · 03-04-2003 11:05am

The Irish government are continuing on the same policy that was in place with regards Shannon for the last 50 years.

There has been no change in government policy on Shannon.

Over that time, FF,FG,Labour,PDs & Independants make up governments.

HFXOC · 03-04-2003 11:12am

Man takes High Court proceedings over Shannon
03/04/2003 - 09:07:40

A retired Army commandant was today beginning High Court proceedings against the State for allowing the US military to refuel at Shannon Airport.

The action by Edward Horgan, of Co Limerick, is likely to last until April 11.

Hopefully this will be successful and Irelands axis of evil ie: Ahern Cowen and Harney will be gutted.

Lemming · 03-04-2003 11:26am

I had an interesting debate with my dad over the whole shannon thing with the crux of his arguement being that the USA has been good to us over the years so we should back them

During the ensuing arguement, I made a point that Bush doesn't give a flying f*ck about this country and is nobody's friend. Companies don't give a toss about whether or not we supported their country's war. The bottom line is lower costs.

The other day I read an article (online - but I can't remember which news site) citing that Bush had wanted to cut the "international fund for Ireland" by several million/billion, whatever the figure was. So much for "loyality" eh? :rolleyes:

Just shows where the Bush administration's thinking is; in the classic "ME ME ME f*ck you" stereotype of american values. [1]

So ... do what is right and be damned? Or do what is wrong and be damned?

[1] A stereotype - not a statement of fact

Cork · 03-04-2003 11:30am

Originally posted by HFXOC
Man takes High Court proceedings over Shannon
03/04/2003 - 09:07:40

A retired Army commandant was today beginning High Court proceedings against the State for allowing the US military to refuel at Shannon Airport.

The action by Edward Horgan, of Co Limerick, is likely to last until April 11.

Hopefully this will be successful and Irelands axis of evil ie: Ahern Cowen and Harney will be gutted.

Ahern Cowen and Harney are democraticly elected. The use of Shannon by US military is not at the present unconstitutional. The government have not changed any policy with regards the use of this airport.

& are are those protesting aganist the use of Irish airspace willing to state if the government should invest in military hardware for this?

If the answer is Yes - Should the government rise taxes of cut budgets?

Victor · 03-04-2003 12:38pm

Originally posted by Cork
The Irish government are continuing on the same policy that was in place with regards Shannon for the last 50 years.

I'm just wondering about Bertie's comments about the Vietnam War, why would the Americans have used Shannon then? It would only lengthen the journey (USA - Hawaii - Vietnam is always shorter than USA - Ireland - Vietnam).

Originally posted by Cork
& are are those protesting aganist the use of Irish airspace willing to state if the government should invest in military hardware for this? If the answer is Yes - Should the government rise taxes of cut budgets?

Not quite sure what you are saying here, but if you are asking should the government invest in modern Defence Forces, then the answer is yes. The modernisation programme for the Defence Forces has been financed through rationalisation and sale of assets. In fact the defence budget is down this year. So Cork, stop bringing irrelevant arguments to the discussion.

Cork · 03-04-2003 2:06pm

The Vietnam War comments probably related to the use os Shannon airport to the US millitary during the Vietnam War.

I am sure the US bases in Europe were still operating during the Vietnam War.

Victor · 03-04-2003 2:39pm

Originally posted by Cork
The Vietnam War comments probably related to the use os Shannon airport to the US millitary during the Vietnam War. I am sure the US bases in Europe were still operating during the Vietnam War.

So he was spouting BS then? That these planes had nothing to do with Vietnam.

mike65 · 03-04-2003 6:14pm

....and don't foget the Soviets use of Shannon in thier prosecution of war in Angola, not to mention all those Cubans to and from Moscow and Angola. I dont recall any complaining then....

Mike.

Shannon Open to Yankee War Machine!

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