Monitored Burgler Alarms

viking

Feel free to move this if necessary...

A chap called to the door last night from ADT alarms offering to "supply and install a complimentary monitored home security system" on the ground floor of the house, the only catch being that you must install a Carbon Monoxide dectector which will cost €109. Then you must agree to sign a 36 month monitor and service agreement for which you will pay €38 per month.

We're quite interested in this type of alarm, but one of the main issues is that I live in a rural(ish) area and the garda only serve the town until 1pm, after that the town is served by Mullingar gardai. This means that if our house gets burgled before 1pm, then grand, the gardai will respond quickly but if we get burgled after 1pm then it could take anything from 30mins to an hour for the gardai respond after which time the house could have been emptied.

I'm just wondering if anyone has any views or experiences of this type of alarm?

TIA,

viking

Saruman

ADT are big i think so not some small dodgy place... on the other hand why not just get Eircom phone watch? Compare prices and BEFORE you sign, see if ADT can offer a number of someone who actually has the service so you know if its worth it.

Victor

Does it not explain the rest of the system? Does it cover all access points (contact sensors) and all accessible rooms (with passive infrared sensors)? Does it cover fire (recommendation is minimum 3 sensors per dwelling)? How much is the initial installation cost? What other costs are possible (call answering, call out charges, maintenence)? Is a mobile alrm available for the elderly / ill / immobile? What regime is needed in having a phone line for the system? What if you avail of another monitoring service (AMS and Eircom phonewatch come to mind)? What discount will your insurance company give you?

Originally posted by viking
A chap called to the door last night from ADT

Sounds curious.

Originally posted by viking
on the ground floor of the house

And if the burgualr has a ladder?

Originally posted by viking
the only catch being that you must install a Carbon Monoxide dectector which will cost €109.

Sounds even more curious. Do you use electicity only or do you have (1) gas / oil solid fuel heating / cooking and/or an attached garage?

Originally posted by viking
Then you must agree to sign a 36 month monitor and service agreement for which you will pay €38 per month.

This sounds a bit high, but this may be due to your location.

Originally posted by viking
We're quite interested in this type of alarm, but one of the main issues is that I live in a rural(ish) area and the garda only serve the town until 1pm, after that the town is served by Mullingar gardai. This means that if our house gets burgled before 1pm, then grand, the gardai will respond quickly but if we get burgled after 1pm then it could take anything from 30mins to an hour for the gardai respond after which time the house could have been emptied.

The monitoring system means that say 60 seconds after the full alarm sounds (total 90 seconds after the initial 'event') the alarm sytem will automaticly contact the monitoring service (usually a call centre for a security company) with details of what happened. The monitoring service will then phone the premises to ask for a password, if a password isn't given, they will then call the Garda. Repeated false alarms will mean the Garda will not respond.

If you are unsure about the bona fides of the caller just check the phone number he gives against the one in the phone book and make a spurious (eh, "further query") call to them.

viking

Does it not explain the rest of the system? Does it cover all access points (contact sensors) and all accessible rooms (with passive infrared sensors)? Does it cover fire (recommendation is minimum 3 sensors per dwelling)? How much is the initial installation cost? What other costs are possible (call answering, call out charges, maintenence)? Is a mobile alrm available for the elderly / ill / immobile? What regime is needed in having a phone line for the system? What if you avail of another monitoring service (AMS and Eircom phonewatch come to mind)? What discount will your insurance company give you?Sounds curious. And if the burgualr has a ladder? Sounds even more curious. Do you use electicity only or do you have (1) gas / oil solid fuel heating / cooking and/or an attached garage?

The access points that are covered are the front and back door, there are two motion sensors, one in the front section of the house and one in the rear section. Then there is the Carbon Monoxide detector in the landing. The access points and the motion sensors are installed free, the Carbon Monoxide detector cost 109 Euro which you must purchase.

The insurance company will knock 20% off your premium.

Very good point about a burglar with a ladder, never thought of that although he did say that you could purchase an extra motion detector upstairs for 69 Euro.

This sounds a bit high, but this may be due to your location.

I think its the standard price in ireland, haven't confirmed that though.

If you are unsure about the bona fides of the caller just check the phone number he gives against the one in the phone book and make a spurious (eh, "further query") call to them.

I reckon the sales guy is genuine, he had a team of sales people with him canvassing the estate. ADT are based in Phibsboro right across the road from where I used to work so I know the company exists and is trading, it is also registered with the NSAI.

Oh, and something I didn't mention which I thought was strange, they are only doing the special promotion (free install, CM detector for 109 and 36 month contract) for 3 houses in the estate to "create a profile" for the company. After that they will charge full price (700 Euro) for the installation of the alarm system but you only commit to a 12 month monitoring and service contract. I'm just curious as to whether we will see them again selling the full price system after the 3 houses have been fitted with the special offer deal?

viking

viking

Just rang eircom phonewatch for a quote:

For all windows and doors, 1 movement detector, a panic button and your first 3 months free service and monitoring 570 EURO!

After your first three months free you pay 19 EURO a month for monitoring and service. Not sure about contract lengths yet but this sounds like the offer we'll be going for...

viking

Victor

Originally posted by viking
The access points that are covered are the front and back door, there are two motion sensors, one in the front section of the house and one in the rear section.

Is there not windows and other rooms on the ground floor?

Originally posted by viking
The access points and the motion sensors are installed free

It would appear they make the money back on hte service charge.

viking

Originally posted by Victor
Is there not windows and other rooms on the ground floor? It would appear they make the money back on hte service charge.

Yeah, there are two windows on the ground floor, one in the front room and one in the kitchen/dining room, but he said the motion detectors would go in the kitchen and front rooms therefore there wouldn't be a need for window sensors.

It appears that with the deal you are more or less paying a finance deal with them over the 36 months for the alarm equipment. It would end up costing a hell of a lot more than the eircom phonewatch.

Nice idea from ADT at first glance, but not really worth it in the long run...

viking

Clintons Cat

i concur.

RainyDay

Is there an ''access hatch' for utilities outside your house? Many newer houses have a little hatch outside the front door with an access point for phone, cable TV etc.

Unfortunately, the burglers have copped onto the fact that they can snip the phone line before they break in, & your monitored alarm can't 'phone home' to report the break-in. There are options based on cell-phone technology, but these are pretty expensive (about 1k per annum, if I recall correctly).

Victor

Originally posted by RainyDay
& your monitored alarm can't 'phone home' to report the break-in.

The advantage in the case of phonewatch with this is the system ocassionally "pings" the monitoring service and a response can be made based on this (confirm thsi with phonewatch though).

RainyDay

The advantage in the case of phonewatch with this is the system ocassionally "pings" the monitoring service and a response can be made based on this (confirm thsi with phonewatch though).

I think some of the systems can be set to 'ping' the monitoring service once a day. The downside of this is that you pay for the phone call every day (and if you're on Eircom, you pay their 5c minimum charge, regardless of the duration of the cost).

Given that it's once a day, what's the chances of the 'ping' happening during the half-hour that the bad guys happen to be in your house? About 50-1, I guess....

viking

Originally posted by RainyDay
Is there an ''access hatch' for utilities outside your house? Many newer houses have a little hatch outside the front door with an access point for phone, cable TV etc.

Unfortunately, the burglers have copped onto the fact that they can snip the phone line before they break in, & your monitored alarm can't 'phone home' to report the break-in. There are options based on cell-phone technology, but these are pretty expensive (about 1k per annum, if I recall correctly).

Hmmm... there is an access hatch at the side of the house for the telephone line...never thought about the burglar snipping the wires from there :eek:. Another reason why I am actually swinging away from a monitored alarm.

I got further details from phonewatch regarding the deals that they offer for a new home. An 8 sensor pack (All windows downstairs, front and back door sensors, movement dectector, panic button and 1 window upstairs):

. Upfront payment costs 560 Euro + 3 months free monitoring after that if you wish to continue monitoring you are locked into a 3 year contract @ 19 Euro a month!
. No upfront cost will work out at €38.31 per month including monitoring over 3 years

So even if I pay upfront for my alarm they still lock you into a 3 year contract! No thank you, 12 months maybe, but 3 years! Go píss up a rope!

My next door neighbour got a "bells only" alarm fitted, all windows up and downstairs, front & rear doors, motion sensor and a panic button for 560 Euro. I've never heard any false alarms from it and he swears by it, so I think I'll give the guy who fitted his a shout.

Thanks for the replies,

viking

Victor

Originally posted by viking
My next door neighbour got a "bells only" alarm fitted, all windows up and downstairs, front & rear doors, motion sensor and a panic button for 560 Euro. I've never heard any false alarms from it and he swears by it, so I think I'll give the guy who fitted his a shout.

The problem with bells only is when is goes on for hours and hours, the burgular knows there is no one home. :eek:

Also ask for an empty box, put on at the front the other at the side / rear - it keeps them guessing.

RainyDay

The problem with bells only is when is goes on for hours and hours,

I think most of the 'bell' alarms are set up so that the external bell rings for 20-30 minutes only. It then switches off, and leaves the internal warning signal going until the householder gets home & resets the system.

bucks73

I have had alarms near me going for whole weekends. Also when I had an apartment the next door neighbours alarm was going for two days solid.

Now I have phonewatch in my house and find it excellent. Previous owner installed it so I didnt have to pay that. Just the yearly monitoring fee.

RicardoSmith

ADT were doing this in my estate recently too. They seem to be doing it all over the country its basically a sales ploy. Though they only came around my area once.

Capt'n Midnight

Any recomendations ?

anyone heard of Permenant Security ?

Will the installers setup setting for you - eg: if you have a trembler & contact switch that will sound an alarm for a minute and stop - can you have it that it does not ring the centre straight away on the first tremble but only if a contact opens or if there are lots of terembles ?

cany you slave passive sensors off a wireless one - eg: at the back of the house it would be nice to have a PIR and two contacts (two doors)

Will Eircom let you self install - how about just the cable runs ??

Victor

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
cany you slave passive sensors off a wireless one - eg: at the back of the house it would be nice to have a PIR and two contacts (two doors)

I don't think you can run a PIR off batteries, not sure, but I don't think you can.

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
Will Eircom let you self install - how about just the cable runs ??

I doubt it, they need to do compliance certificates and the like to avoid false alarms and make sure everything is convered etc.

Redshift

Phonewatch will put a security plate over the external box secured with security screws, not impossible to remove but difficult and time consuming without the proper tools enough to make them not bother. when ordering make sure you state that you have one of these and request a security plate to be fitted over it. if your line enters your house from a pole and is within reach you should get it moved up to enter your house via the apex or facia board. As regards pinging the monitoring station in phonewatch's case this is only really used for large business customers and costs extra. The user however may initiate a phonetest themselves by entering their code followed by two, the panel will confirm the success or failure of the test it may take a little while as it's a low priority signal.

NeRb666

Originally posted by viking


We're quite interested in this type of alarm, but one of the main issues is that I live in a rural(ish) area and the garda only serve the town until 1pm, after that the town is served by Mullingar gardai. This means that if our house gets burgled before 1pm, then grand, the gardai will respond quickly but if we get burgled after 1pm then it could take anything from 30mins to an hour for the gardai respond after which time the house could have been emptied.

I'm just wondering if anyone has any views or experiences of this type of alarm?

TIA,

viking

My parents have an eircom phonewatch intstalled. They had a false alarm about 6 months ago. I got a call from the eircom people to tell me the alarm had gone off, so I went up to their house to check it out (the Gardai were informed before they called me). I got there about 25 minutes later and there was no sign of the cops (neighbours told me, they were in their front garden all that time) so I rang eircom and told them it was a false alarm. The nearest Garda station is about 1km away and would take no more than 2 minutes to drive from.

janeymac

Don't touch monitored alarms! I have had an awful experience with eircon phonewatch and because of this I know the questions to ask these companies when they try to flog their monitoring services to me. None of them have been able to assuage my doubts about their systems. Most of them appear to be rip-offs.
-Eircon phonewatch never gave me value for my (considerable amount of) money. You can read all about it here:
eircom phonewatch cost me tons of money!!!!! - the owner of the board appears to have edited my original post, I don't know why, but he seems to have left the gist of it intact.
-ADT installed an alarm in our investment/pension property, and while the alarm is great, the servicing contract is superb, and their technician extremely helpful, knowledgeable and the same man every time (very rare nowadays), I still wouldn't go near their monitoring service.

After the advice from the above link, I got John Reid to install a new alarm with an autodialer, and it is brilliant. I am well aware that cutting my phoneline will disable the autodialler element of the alarm, but if I don't advertise the presence of my autodialler, Mr. Burglar won't know, and even if he does guess, the external bell (which I couldn't afford at eircon's prices) is my backup.

spark

Why not consider an alarm that rings your mobile when activated. This saves all monitoring charges. i have installed plenty of these and not one complaint.