Rail plan

Yoda

Surprised not to see this mentioned already on this forum.

Did everyone see the article in The Irish Times on 28 February 2003, "All change here for a one-change rail plan"?

It it inspired, and inspiring. It makes me want to write to TDs and Ministers saying "Please. Please. Please. Please."

Victor

Eh, no I didn't, do you have any details?

Yoda

See http://www.evertype.com/misc/dart/index.html

Yoda

Hm. I find it odd that there is not more discussion about this thread.

Victor

OK I took a loofk at the stuff you scanned and I noted in particular that he is doing a MPhil(?) and while his philosophy is good (not having to change more than once), he is no transportation engineer. Some of his ideas have merit, but others are off the wall (e.g. he doesn't understand that Ireland are the odd ones out in using broad gause when most of the world uses standard gauge and this is a factor in the higher costs for Irish trains). Other bits of his drawing are a bit out (e.g. his location of Kinsealy) and some stations are just too close together (Eden Quay and Tara Street) while others are too far apart.

His Philosophy is good, not sure about his Engineering.

jd

Originally posted by Victor
Some of his ideas have merit, but others are off the wall (e.g. he doesn't understand that Ireland are the odd ones out in using broad gause when most of the world uses standard gauge and this is a factor in the higher costs for Irish trains).

Victor-where does he show he doesn't know understand this?
Bear in mind most of the carriage structure would be the same-
jd

Victor

Originally posted by jd
Victor-where does he show he doesn't know understand this?

Originally posted by James Nix
This is precisely what happened, with Line 10 in Madrid, where a capacity route has been reconfigured for wider trains. It is also what took place in 1840s' Ireland when the track of what is now the southern leg of the DART line was widened from 1.435 metres to 1.6 metres.

Because he doesn't seem to realise that guage is not the only factor affecting the overall carrying capacity of a train. Increasing clearance at bridges works much better - Germany being an example.

Originally posted by jd
Bear in mind most of the carriage structure would be the same-
jd

Of the cabin space yes, but a 'unique' (Australia (some), Brazil (some), N Korea (little), Ireland (most) and Northern Ireland (most) are the only places using 1.600m gauge) gauge is used, meaning there are engineering issues involved. Teh advantage gained by Luas is the vehicles are ubiqutous.

jd

Originally posted by Victor
OK I took a loofk at the stuff you scanned and I noted in particular that he is doing a MPhil(?) .

MPhils are warded by TCD rather than MAs. (MAs can be bought a few years after Graduation-I think Chris De Burgh amongs others have done this)
jd

jn

Victor I orginally had the same view of gauge as yourself -

about 1.2% of global rail network is 1600mm; almost 70% is 1435mm.

discovered that key issue in purchasing cost is in fact floor height - low floor vehicles cost 12 - 16% more (completely irrespective of gauge) - this is because of the way the boogie/chasis must be integrated into the bodywork of a low-floor vehicle.

the 1600mm gauge itself - now that Toyku car corportation, CAF, Alstom, etc have built for it - is no longer a discernible cost factor (it used to be: perhaps pushed up previous orders by 1 - 3%, so it is a blessing that these recent orders have tooled up suppliers)

Main issue then turns to interoperability/thru running. There's 80km of 1600mm line in Dublin and only 6km of grade separated 1435mm under construction (Sandyford to Albany rd, Ranelagh).

James

Yoda

Victor,

There may well be an issue with the technical niceties of gauge, but it begs the question. James' point is that a one-change rail plan would give Dublin the kind of connectivity we sorely need and deserve.