Head Gasket query

Kell

I am dumb in car matters barring how to drive them well. Dropped the car, 2000 Astra, into the garage this morning for a service and they said that the head gasket is on it's way out and could use replacing.

My query is this: I thought when head gaskets were on the go you would notice major problems with the car. Me, I've spotted none. They said it was leaking a fair amount of oil from it, yet I topped it up two weeks ago and the oil level has been the same since. Is this the garage trying to fúck me over or what sort of things should I be noticing if a gasket was on the way out? He asked if it misfires- It never does on start. Also, should a head gasket on a three year old car with 54k on the clock that never gets out of the 2.5 to 3.5k rev range be on it's way out?

Cheers in advance-

K

ozpass

A crack in a head gasket isn't always noticeable from the drivers point of view (unlike a blown head gasket).

Symptoms would include:

- Reduced pressure in combustion chamber (checked with a mater which screws into spark plug socket -called compression checker imaginitively enough).

- Water in the oil / oil in the water.

- Abnormally black/dirty engine bay (bit hard to tell this one!)

- Weeping oil between block and head.

It's not impossible for head gaskets to fail at low mileages but it isn't common either. Ask the mechanic how he knew it was 'about to go', maybe asking what the compression was on each cylinder (to let him know what you're on about) - if they're more than 5psi out per cylinder he might be onto something.

Minor cracks internally to the gasket you'd never know about until you took the head off anyway so if he claims these he's probably bullsh**ting.

[EDIT]

Probably should have asked earlier - is it a diesel?

If so, rules are slightly different due to v. high compressions (14:1+) in diesel engines.

[/EDIT]

Kell

Spoke to the garage when I picked up the car and the engineers report said that there was oil leaking from near the head gasket, but not necessarily that the gasket was on the go. It's a petrol btw. They also said that the water level was quite low and that a loss of water could have caused the damage. I would have thought that loss of water would cause engine to overheat, which again it hasn't. Once again, the water resevoir is quite obvious in the engine bay and from memory I can nearly say for definite that the water level has never dropped. Checked the water level when I got home, no oil in it. There is some oil weeping from between the block and head though.

Anyway, I am having it second opinioned at the weekend as my garage quoted me €1,200 to do the work and so far everyone in the business have told me that thats way off the mark for the job.

Cheers Oz for the feedback.

ozpass

No problem.

Overheating is a common cause of damaged head gaskets, especially with modern all-alloy angines (even those with just alloy heads). When the engine get really hot the head warps slightly, pinching part of the gasket and splitting it.

You would, most likely, have noticed this happening though (warning lights, clouds of steam etc. ).

A far more common cause of oil leaks around the head is from the cam cover / rocker cover. Oil can pool in this part of the head and due to its non-stressed nature the bolts here aren't torqued down nearly as tight as head bolts. The gaskets used are cheapy rubber ones too.

It does sound like you're being soundly ripped off / tricked.

Quigs Snr

I am somewhat an expert on painful head gasket experiences. My MGF lost one at 29k causing an entire engine replacement.

The Astra is famous for its weak gasket. Sounds to me though like you are being fed ****. The best way to test a head gasket is to get it (water) pressure tested. A fairly simple job that most garages will do. This, oooh the water level is low is crap. Sure fill up the water tank and if it's empty in a couple of days or a lot lower then perhaps yes maybe you do have a problem there, but it's not a dead cert.

It is in the garages interests to convince you that the gasket needs replacing as it will cost them about 30 Euro for the gasket and assuming that they don't have to skim the head, all the rest is labour. Which of course is how they make their money. Now I'm not saying there isn't a problem, I am just saying beware and you are dead right to get a second opinion.

By the way, it cost for a head gasket on a mid engine mounted MGF (i.e. the car had to be taken apart and the engine lifted to do the job - major labour) 25 punts for the gasket from a main dealer and then 500 punts from a BMW dealer to do the rest, the money you are being quoted is off the scale. Never go back to that dealer.

Kell

Originally posted by ozpass
No problem.

A far more common cause of oil leaks around the head is from the cam cover / rocker cover.

It does sound like you're being soundly ripped off / tricked.

Exactly what my old man said. While not a mechanic he's worked on industrial engines for years as a fitter. After rummaging around under the bonnet for a few minutes he said, "probably cam cover or the rocker. Thats the only place that has oil in around there". I am seriously píssed at the garage though. I bought it there, and had every service there and yet they still try and rip you off? Tsk tsk.

Thanks for all the sound advice-

K

RicardoSmith

€1200 for fitting a head gasket? I'd report them for that. Though I have to say garage ripping people off is sooooo common in this country.

Chimaera

Kell - one other thing you can do is get the engine bay steam-cleaned and keep a close eye on where the oil is coming from after that. It's far easier to spot the location of a leak in a clean engine bay.

Also, a low water level can be caused by a leaking water pump/damaged radiator, as well as a damaged head gasket.

Kell

Originally posted by Chimaera
get the engine bay steam-cleaned

Do you know of anywhere I can get this done? I always thought that pressure cleaning the engine was a no-no.

Chimaera

Not off-hand - using a power-washer is definitely out of hand, but steam cleaning is often used to clean up engine bays. Check with a few car valeters - they might do it, or know of someone who does.

JohnBoy

for 1200 euros I'd be expecting naked ladies to massage me for the duration of the gasket swap.

Seriously, that's madness, even by main dealer rates.

The gasket is as noted about 30 quid, plus another 60 or so for a new timing belt and tensioner (i beleive the astra has to get the tensioner replaced anyway) and a mechanic experienced in open engines should be able to do the job in less than two hours.

simplified procedure:
set the engine to tdc
remove timing belt
remove cam cover
remove head
remove gasket
drop on new gasket
replace head
torque head bolts
replace cam cover
fit new belt and tensioner.

it's not rocket science since the gasket has not yet failed and the head is ok.

i was quoted €400 on a rover 214 which had completely blown it's top. and most of that cost was to have the head machined for trueness (and possibly crack tested as well.)

1200 is insane. especially since the oil is more than likely coming from the cam cover.

still though I'd get an inependant mechanic to check it over, cos if it does blow then you will have serious expense on the cards.

john

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Kell

Had the car second opinioned on Saturday. Mechanic said that she was weeping oil from around the cam cover which he reckoned was fairly normal. He wouldent quote for a gasket replacement as he told me outstraight that there was absolutely no need for one for many many many miles to come. I also asked him to check the brakes as I was dubious as to whether the garage were right in telling me I needed new ones- he reckoned they're grand for another 10,000 miles or so. I am going to name the garage so you dont all get fúcked if you use them. It's Crawfords in Sandymount and mods I hope it's alright to name them. I thought it was given the monumental rip off I thankfully avoided.

Cheers all for the advice-

K

gavo782002

Hi i looking for some advice my ford fiesta has been leaking water the past few mouths from underneath the engine, this is causing me problems cos the car is blowing out cold air and overheating due to the water leak, I've had the water pump and the thermostat replaced could it be the gasket? or something less serious

Alanstrainor

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