Levels & Tactics

Mouserat

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Shiminay

I think what Mouserat has said here makes perfect sense...The ID levels are more or less for single player games so obviously all the better weapons/armour etc are going to be further in the level, rather than at the very start (because of course, you have to work your way though the level FROM the start). This is unfortunate for those who start in the "earlier" parts of the level, but with propber team-work you can overcome this problem...maybe!

As for the UKCL levels, they are a very balanced and fair levels to play...and alot of fun too! If you can't go playing online all the time, practice with bots (Reaper bots are probably the best!). I suppose I'm lucky as I have a LAN to practice on but the bots are easy and quack to d/l or you might just find them on a cover disk with some of the mags around.
If anyone's having problems with those levels, PRACTICE!!! There's nothing else you can do. It's the sign of a good player that ADAPT to a new surrounding (that's also for those of you that don't like Quake 2...Reaper???)

Anyway...I'll see what everyone else thinks...

Dav

LegacyUser

Jeez, that's how to work out tactics, simple but good - fair play for putting them on the web mouserat.

LegacyUser

Right on Dermot, I think this settles the argument. The main reason for nD lost was because they were too (stoned/drunk/having sex)/couldnt be bothered to learn the level so they really have no excuse whatsoever.

: I've been following the last few postings to the board with interest, and am interested to hear some of you would
: prefer to play one level over and over and over rather than expose to new challenges. DM3 is a nice looking level,
: but you ask anyone if its fair for teamgames and they will invariably say "NO!". The only reason it was picked at
: all for one weeks games was to accomodate teams who hate playing anywhere new as a warm up to the better levels
: coming up later in the league. It is one of those levels which when played by two tactically aware teams amplifies
: any differences between the two so that when one team is only slightly better than the other, they will still win
: by a large frag difference.

: Most ID levels are similar - one area of the map has a disproportionate amount of the weapons and power ups,
: meaning that when one team gets in control of that area (and if teams use tactics to any extent, this will always
: happen within 5 or 10 minutes) then the other team will find it impossible to get back into the game. For example,
: in DM3, one half of the level contains the rocket launcher, grenade launcher, lightning gun, quad damage, yellow
: armour, super shotgun and pentagram of protaction, while the other half contains red armour and a super nail gun.

: This is really silly, as what it means is the first team to get the upper hand on the useful side of the level
: WILL go on to win the game - games on levels like DM3 are invariably decided in the first five or ten minutes
: if the teams are aware of tactics and how to cooperate to control a level. An example of this was in our game
: against Celtic Shadows on DM3 - even though we were playing 4 of us against 5 of them, we gained the upper hand,
: held the useful side of the level with 3 of our players and could even spare MoonGlum to hold the Red Armour room
: on CS, meaning they were denied EVERY useful item on the level. Once our team was in position, for CS it was a
: case of respawn, go look for a useful item, find one of our team there, get killed, respawn. If we had had our
: full compliment of 5, it would have been an even greater massacre. If CS had gained the upper hand first on us and
: run the useful items, then it would have been us, not them who would have lost by a large margin.

: UKCL maps on the other hand have been designed specially to avoid unfair situations like this. Instead of just one
: area of the map with useful items in it (like DM3) they ALWAYS have at least two and usually three seperate areas
: with useful weapons and armour making for much more balanced and enjoyable game. It also means that just because
: a team is in the lead it does NOT mean they will necessarily go on to win - unlike DM3. Because of the layout
: of the levels if your team loses the nicest area of the level there will ALWAYS be another area of the level with
: a supply of weapons and armour which you can use to build your team up with again. Basically, all UKCL levels
: are split into two or more seperate areas, which will have very similar stocks of items. On some levels, one area
: of the level will have a slight advantage over the other (for example, red armour vs. yellow armour in the case of
: UKCLDM2), and in others, both sides of the level will have almost exactly the same stocks of weapons and armour
: (ANDROM9). In a case like UKCLDM2, the slight imbalance in the sides of the level mean that the team on the
: slightly worse off side of the level will be on the offensive, trying to recapture the side with the advantage.
: Almost always there will be a quad damage somewhere on the level half way between both sides which can be used by
: a team to go on a great offensive and recapture whichever area of the level they are interested in. This is the
: basic format for all Quake games, and it really isnt as complicated as "The Apollo Space mission" as Overlord
: tried to make out.

: All it involves is communicating a little bit with your team members so everyone is aware what area of the level
: your team is currently located in. This means that when you respawn, you dont make a beeline straight for
: enemy territory, instead you go to a friendly area and restock on weapons and armour before returning to the
: firfight. Its as simple as that.

: Overlord said in his report: "A mauling can be given to another team even if they're excellent skill-wise but are
: tactically naive.This is more likely to happen if alternative, lesser-known maps are used - which is the case in
: IQCL." Obviously if one team is completely familiar with a level and the other team is not then the team which
: knows its way around will win, but a basic knowledge of the level will suffice, it is NOT neccessary to know it
: inside out. Two of the GI team had never seen the map UKCLDM2 until just minutes before the game, I was the only
: one who knew it fairly well and the other two members had put in an hours practise on Thursday night. What won us
: the game was the fact that I sat down and learned the level, then drew up a plan to control the important areas,
: and then did a .cfg file binding the function keys to certain preset messages like "slime area LOST", "ya/rl area
: SECURE" and so on. And another misconception some of you have is that we only won because I played on the UKCL
: maps before - its the fact that I played with a great team like Clan Pendragon and saw how they operated that gave
: me the advantage. Overlord played with them also, he just didnt appreciate how important team cooperation really
: is. I have only played on UKCLDM2, 4 and 6 - once on each level I think, and not for the last few months, so I am
: no longer familiar with the maps themselves. I have NEVER played on the other levels as far as I can remember.

: The picture above is a map I drew out of the level so everyone would know the locations of the weapons. The plan
: was pure simplicity - hold the red armour/rl area, if we lose that, fall back to the ya/rl area, get the quad and
: recapture the RA area using it. Overlord says, "Having a veteran UKCLer in their midst certainly didnt do any
: harm." Well, a plan similar to this will work on ANY UKCL level, so now you all have all the advantages I gave GI.

: If you want to see exactly how we did it, then watch the demos of myself and cloud warrior below - you will get an
: idea of the type of messages we sent each other to keep the team working well as a unit.

: This is a Clan League after all, not a set of free for alls with teams. The whole point of team games is that the
: teams cooperate and help each other - the team which does that the best will win the game. Even Overlord admits
: in his report on the game that a team excellent skill wise can be beaten by a team which cooperates better - it
: doesn't matter how good a shot you are, if 3 guys attack you simultaneously, you are a dead man.

: The idea of using one level for every game is stupid - with different levels every week, teams will get the
: opportuinity to try out a different plan every week. Some will work, and some wont as the UKCL levels have been
: designed so well that often the plan you picked before hand will backfire - you decide to hold one area in the map
: thinking it the most important just because it has the nicest items, and then find that area is actually very
: vulnerable to a certain type of attack from the other team!

: Tactics are what gives a game like Quake staying appeal, as you can think you have a great plan in operation and
: suddenly you get outmaneouvered by the other team because you overlooked a vital gap in your defenses! If you
: think all this talk about tactics is just stupid then you should go back to playing reapers or free for alls -
: Clan games should be exactly that - games between two TEAMS, not two groups of people who happen to be playing
: on the same level.

: Interested to hear what you make of all this,

:
: Mouserat,
: IQCL Admin

LegacyUser

Another thing Dermot, what is all that crap you spilled on the map before you scanned it?

: I've been following the last few postings to the board with interest, and am interested to hear some of you would
: prefer to play one level over and over and over rather than expose to new challenges. DM3 is a nice looking level,
: but you ask anyone if its fair for teamgames and they will invariably say "NO!". The only reason it was picked at
: all for one weeks games was to accomodate teams who hate playing anywhere new as a warm up to the better levels
: coming up later in the league. It is one of those levels which when played by two tactically aware teams amplifies
: any differences between the two so that when one team is only slightly better than the other, they will still win
: by a large frag difference.

: Most ID levels are similar - one area of the map has a disproportionate amount of the weapons and power ups,
: meaning that when one team gets in control of that area (and if teams use tactics to any extent, this will always
: happen within 5 or 10 minutes) then the other team will find it impossible to get back into the game. For example,
: in DM3, one half of the level contains the rocket launcher, grenade launcher, lightning gun, quad damage, yellow
: armour, super shotgun and pentagram of protaction, while the other half contains red armour and a super nail gun.

: This is really silly, as what it means is the first team to get the upper hand on the useful side of the level
: WILL go on to win the game - games on levels like DM3 are invariably decided in the first five or ten minutes
: if the teams are aware of tactics and how to cooperate to control a level. An example of this was in our game
: against Celtic Shadows on DM3 - even though we were playing 4 of us against 5 of them, we gained the upper hand,
: held the useful side of the level with 3 of our players and could even spare MoonGlum to hold the Red Armour room
: on CS, meaning they were denied EVERY useful item on the level. Once our team was in position, for CS it was a
: case of respawn, go look for a useful item, find one of our team there, get killed, respawn. If we had had our
: full compliment of 5, it would have been an even greater massacre. If CS had gained the upper hand first on us and
: run the useful items, then it would have been us, not them who would have lost by a large margin.

: UKCL maps on the other hand have been designed specially to avoid unfair situations like this. Instead of just one
: area of the map with useful items in it (like DM3) they ALWAYS have at least two and usually three seperate areas
: with useful weapons and armour making for much more balanced and enjoyable game. It also means that just because
: a team is in the lead it does NOT mean they will necessarily go on to win - unlike DM3. Because of the layout
: of the levels if your team loses the nicest area of the level there will ALWAYS be another area of the level with
: a supply of weapons and armour which you can use to build your team up with again. Basically, all UKCL levels
: are split into two or more seperate areas, which will have very similar stocks of items. On some levels, one area
: of the level will have a slight advantage over the other (for example, red armour vs. yellow armour in the case of
: UKCLDM2), and in others, both sides of the level will have almost exactly the same stocks of weapons and armour
: (ANDROM9). In a case like UKCLDM2, the slight imbalance in the sides of the level mean that the team on the
: slightly worse off side of the level will be on the offensive, trying to recapture the side with the advantage.
: Almost always there will be a quad damage somewhere on the level half way between both sides which can be used by
: a team to go on a great offensive and recapture whichever area of the level they are interested in. This is the
: basic format for all Quake games, and it really isnt as complicated as "The Apollo Space mission" as Overlord
: tried to make out.

: All it involves is communicating a little bit with your team members so everyone is aware what area of the level
: your team is currently located in. This means that when you respawn, you dont make a beeline straight for
: enemy territory, instead you go to a friendly area and restock on weapons and armour before returning to the
: firfight. Its as simple as that.

: Overlord said in his report: "A mauling can be given to another team even if they're excellent skill-wise but are
: tactically naive.This is more likely to happen if alternative, lesser-known maps are used - which is the case in
: IQCL." Obviously if one team is completely familiar with a level and the other team is not then the team which
: knows its way around will win, but a basic knowledge of the level will suffice, it is NOT neccessary to know it
: inside out. Two of the GI team had never seen the map UKCLDM2 until just minutes before the game, I was the only
: one who knew it fairly well and the other two members had put in an hours practise on Thursday night. What won us
: the game was the fact that I sat down and learned the level, then drew up a plan to control the important areas,
: and then did a .cfg file binding the function keys to certain preset messages like "slime area LOST", "ya/rl area
: SECURE" and so on. And another misconception some of you have is that we only won because I played on the UKCL
: maps before - its the fact that I played with a great team like Clan Pendragon and saw how they operated that gave
: me the advantage. Overlord played with them also, he just didnt appreciate how important team cooperation really
: is. I have only played on UKCLDM2, 4 and 6 - once on each level I think, and not for the last few months, so I am
: no longer familiar with the maps themselves. I have NEVER played on the other levels as far as I can remember.

: The picture above is a map I drew out of the level so everyone would know the locations of the weapons. The plan
: was pure simplicity - hold the red armour/rl area, if we lose that, fall back to the ya/rl area, get the quad and
: recapture the RA area using it. Overlord says, "Having a veteran UKCLer in their midst certainly didnt do any
: harm." Well, a plan similar to this will work on ANY UKCL level, so now you all have all the advantages I gave GI.

: If you want to see exactly how we did it, then watch the demos of myself and cloud warrior below - you will get an
: idea of the type of messages we sent each other to keep the team working well as a unit.

: This is a Clan League after all, not a set of free for alls with teams. The whole point of team games is that the
: teams cooperate and help each other - the team which does that the best will win the game. Even Overlord admits
: in his report on the game that a team excellent skill wise can be beaten by a team which cooperates better - it
: doesn't matter how good a shot you are, if 3 guys attack you simultaneously, you are a dead man.

: The idea of using one level for every game is stupid - with different levels every week, teams will get the
: opportuinity to try out a different plan every week. Some will work, and some wont as the UKCL levels have been
: designed so well that often the plan you picked before hand will backfire - you decide to hold one area in the map
: thinking it the most important just because it has the nicest items, and then find that area is actually very
: vulnerable to a certain type of attack from the other team!

: Tactics are what gives a game like Quake staying appeal, as you can think you have a great plan in operation and
: suddenly you get outmaneouvered by the other team because you overlooked a vital gap in your defenses! If you
: think all this talk about tactics is just stupid then you should go back to playing reapers or free for alls -
: Clan games should be exactly that - games between two TEAMS, not two groups of people who happen to be playing
: on the same level.

: Interested to hear what you make of all this,

:
: Mouserat,
: IQCL Admin

Mouserat

: Another thing Dermot, what is all that crap you spilled on the map before you scanned it?
:
Its actually written on the back of some of my photocopied notes from final year. Finally put them
to some good use anyway, they did me feck all good for the exams - look closeley and you can see some
equations that will make no sense whatsoever. At least, they made no sense to me at the time.

LegacyUser

: I think what Mouserat has said here makes perfect sense...The ID levels are more or less for single player games so obviously all the better weapons/armour etc are going to be further in the level, rather than at the very start (because of course, you have to work your way though the level FROM the start). This is unfortunate for those who start in the "earlier" parts of the level, but with propber team-work you can overcome this problem...maybe!

: As for the UKCL levels, they are a very balanced and fair levels to play...and alot of fun too! If you can't go playing online all the time, practice with bots (Reaper bots are probably the best!). I suppose I'm lucky as I have a LAN to practice on but the bots are easy and quack to d/l or you might just find them on a cover disk with some of the mags around.
: If anyone's having problems with those levels, PRACTICE!!! There's nothing else you can do. It's the sign of a good player that ADAPT to a new surrounding (that's also for those of you that don't like Quake 2...Reaper???)

Coz it's toss you muppet.