World Economic Forum: Ireland No 51 for Broadband Availablility.

SkepticOne

In a new report by the World Economic Forum, Ireland is ranked 51st behind Namibia, Peru, Nicaragua, Botswana, Dominican Republic, Mexico, Guatamala, Brazil, Romania. In fact we are lower than half way on a list of 82 countries that includes some of the poorest in the world.

Download your copy here:

http://www.weforum.org/pdf/Global_Competitiveness_Reports/Reports/GITR_2002_2003/Individual_Readiness_4.pdf

I think we can all agree that it's high time tax-payers money went to the telcos for getting us this high in the rankings.

Dangger

This will look lurvly on the IOFFL site, when I update it later today......

JohnK

At least we beat Thailand :mad:
Stuff like this really needs to be brought to the publics attention more often.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by JohnK
At least we beat Thailand :mad:
Stuff like this really needs to be brought to the publics attention more often.

There was some coverage in the papers. Unfortunately they failed to look into the figures to see what, in particular, was dragging Ireland's overall competitive ranking, which turns out to be broadband.

Imagine a potential investor looking to locate a business in Ireland. These are the people likely to be reading such reports.

LFCFan

Ireland are very low down on all the lists in that Doc.

pork99

with hard work and determination we might make it to 81 or 82 next year! stand aside, Bangladesh! out of our way Mauritius!

SkepticOne

Originally posted by pork99
with hard work and determination we might make it to 81 or 82 next year! stand aside, Bangladesh! out of our way Mauritius!

This will take coordination between the government and the telcos. Nice to see this is finally happening. A lot can be achieved if the people that created the current situation get together, and with foreign investment scared off, soon we'll have an economy to match these countries.

yellum

Christ. We're drowning at this stage ! We're under the water and can't reach the life vest and we're sinking. We have one last breath in the lungs ...

Whats going to happen ?

bk

This is great propaganda material.

Every IOFFL member should print off a few copies and give one to every person they know who is even mildly interested in BB.

I think IOFFL should arrange meetings with Dermot Ahern, other polticians and the press and wave this under their nose for a while.

This really blows the politicians E-Hub of Europe bs out of the water and should be used at every oppurtunity to embarrass them. They really can't ignore this and perhaps we will get some real action from them now.

Maybe it is also time to go back to the European regulators with this, I'm sure they would be very interested and Eircom seems to really take the EU regulator seriously.

pork99

with foreign investment scared off, soon we'll have an economy to match these countries.

I think you are a bit pessimistic there, plenty of opportunities to attract companies like Nike and the like who need proles to stick together trainers, footballs and so on

Of course earning a dollar a day in a sweatshop will take some getting used to but if that coveted 82nd place is to be ours sacrifices will have to be made!

LoGiE

:eek:
Good lord even countries like Columbia are ahead of us. The Goverment of Columbia has to deal with mass coruption and pour millions into the military in order to defeat Crimelords and still manage to beat Ireland in this Poll...

SkepticOne

This is pretty much the most comprehensive report available. I imagine only contries in the middle of civil wars with no way of gathering data wern't included (although some were).

It seems that we came 37th in an OECD o report of November 2001 mainly because there are only 40 countries in the OECD. When you bring in the non OECD countries, Ireland moves further down.

Ardmore

4.10 Cost of residential telephone subscription (US$ per month)
Residential monthly telephone subscription charge weighed against GDP

....
41 Ireland 5.91
....

Anyone know where I can get a residential phone subscript for only $5.91 a month?

LFCFan

doubt they're talking about actual dollar figures there and it's more likely some sort of index figure.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Ardmore
4.10 Cost of residential telephone subscription (US$ per month)
Residential monthly telephone subscription charge weighed against GDP

....
41 Ireland 5.91
....

Anyone know where I can get a residential phone subscript for only $5.91 a month?

However, if it is weighted against GDP (also presumably in dollars) then the figure would not be an absolute price. It would be some formula like

(subscription / GDP per capita) * some constant.

For example on another page we have the cost of a three minute local call. Nicaragua is down as 37. Does it cost $37 to make a three minute local call in Nicaragua?

I think maybe it is the heading that is misleading.

Ardmore

Originally posted by LFCFan
doubt they're talking about actual dollar figures there and it's more likely some sort of index figure.

It says "4.10 Cost of residential telephone subscription (US$ per month)".

If this number doesn't make any sense, what can we make of the other numbers in the report?

Ardmore

Originally posted by SkepticOne
However, if it is weighted against GDP (also presumably in dollars) then the figure would not be an absolute price. It would be some formula like

(subscription / GDP per capita) * some constant.

According to
this site Irish per capita GDP in 2001 was almost 90% of US per capita GDP, so any indexing would make only a small difference in the ranking of US and Irish costs. The US actually has a worse ranking on that chart than we do, at 6.09

For example on another page we have the cost of a three minute local call. Nicaragua is down as 37. Does it cost $37 to make a three minute local call in Nicaragua?

It shows a 3 minute call in Ireland at 5.72, which would be close enough to the minimum call unit in cent. Which would put the Nigerian rate at 48.68c, not $48

I think maybe it is the heading that is misleading.

I 'd be dubious about making any use of this document for publicity purposes, if the simple things are so obviously off base.

Delphi91

Originally posted by Ardmore
It says "4.10 Cost of residential telephone subscription (US$ per month)".

If this number doesn't make any sense, what can we make of the other numbers in the report?

Skepticone's answer is correct. It's not the ACTUAL cost per month in $'s. It's a figure calculated relative to the GDP (Gross Domestic Product) of the country. Its done this way to try to make a more reasonable comparison between different countries.

Mike

Ardmore

Originally posted by Delphi91
Skepticone's answer is correct. It's not the ACTUAL cost per month in $'s. It's a figure calculated relative to the GDP (Gross Domestic Product) of the country. Its done this way to try to make a more reasonable comparison between different countries.

So Skepticone is right, and the people who wrote the report are wrong.

So why are we quoting the report? It's obviously written by people who don't know what they're talking about.

Delphi91

Originally posted by Ardmore
So Skepticone is right, and the people who wrote the report are wrong.

Are you making a statment or asking a question?

You seem to be ignoring part of the report which you yourself mentioned above:

4.10 Cost of residential telephone subscription (US$ per month)
Residential monthly telephone subscription charge weighed against GDP

....
41 Ireland 5.91
....

Have a look at the section that says "Residential monthly telephone subscription charge weighed against GDP".

The 5.91 figure given is a figure calculated so that you can compare "like with like". It's not an ACTUAL monthly subscription cost.

Lets suppose for a minute that you are correct and that it is an actual subscription cost. Following your argument, if you look at the full table again, it suggests that Guatemalans get their phones for free! Quick, lets all move to Guatemala!!!!

Have a look at table 4.08 which is the Cost of a 3-minute local call in $ weighed against GDP. According to that, the figure for Ireland is $5.72. Given that there is virtually a 1:1 exchange rate between US$ and €, that implies that a local 3 minute call here is €5.72. I know that Eircom are expensive, but come on!!!

If you're still not convinced, then have a look at
World Economic Forum - Global Information Technology Report 2002-2003 and have a read through Chapter 1 which shows you how the figures were calculated.

Mike

Ardmore

Originally posted by Delphi91
Lets suppose for a minute that you are correct and that it is an actual subscription cost. Following your argument, if you look at the full table again, it suggests that Guatemalans get their phones for free! Quick, lets all move to Guatemala!!!!

You seem to have some difficulty understanding the way weightings work, Mike. If the report says that the weighted cost is $0, then the original cost must be $0, because the only way to get 0 is to multiple by 0, and Guatamelas GDP isn't 0.

Ireland and the US have similiar GDPs, and similiar "weigted monthly subscription charges". Does monthly telephone subscription in the US cost €20 euro or so?

There's something wrong with this number. If we can't take the simple, objective numbers at face value, we should be wary of the more subjective numbers, such as the NRI, which uses totally arbitrary weightings. GDP and the monthly cost of a telephone are readily ascertainable facts, the choice of what weightings to use are pulled out of the air.

If you're still not convinced, then have a look at
World Economic Forum - Global Information Technology Report 2002-2003 and have a read through Chapter 1 which shows you how the figures were calculated.

Maybe you need to read it yourself, Mike. It doesn't explain how the figures were calculated. It explains why GDP is used, but then goes on to state that the various indexes include costs measured in $US.

spongebob

....in a nutshell.

Ardmore correctly pointed out that there are lies, damned lies and statistics.

The basis on which these were calculated made us look crap.

The 2 Indices where we perfomed the worst were

1. Broadband
2. Cost of local call.

These could be sorted out by Christmas 2003 if Comreg come up with a high quality USO package in March when they publish their inclinations (Response to Consultation) on the various USO issues.

Other factors in the WEF index......Math/Science education for example.....take far longer to fix if broken. We were allright there but could do far better.

M