Gaming and Broadband

jyd

Okay....I ordered a one meg link from Eircom for just over €200 per month inc vat. They said it would be in in three weeks...happy days.....then i read about Interleaving.....

So i asked eircom to turn it off for me (i asked before i paid any money and they still said no.)

I have delved further and here is the official line from eircom (verbatim)

"All eircom ADSL connections use interleaving, which increases the latency (or 'ping time') of the connection by about 30-40ms. However, it also increases the overall 'smoothness' of the service - there will be less dropped frames when streaming video and less chopping of sound when streaming radio. We are unable to switch interleaving off on a per-customer basis at this time." It is simply not technically or economically practical to implement individual requests to alter the configuration of our ADSL network,particularly as the network grows over the next few years. We would have to create a new profile just for that customer's port. This is an additional management system overhead, and it means we have to track that customer's unusual port configuration, and stand over it when we move to new releases of the DSLAM management software, which may or may not support this unique configuration so well."

I have contacted the ADSL Product manager who put out this statement and asked them about a package for gamers, which would cover most home users rather than it being a minority of users. To date they have not replied.

The whole issue of latency is still badly misunderstood by nearly all of the companies involved with broadband rollout. I have contacted LEAP, the guy did not understand what latency was and said he would check it out for me and get back to me with figures, the people in IBB had no figures either and ESAT don't do my area and naturally they don't use interleaving

I am now looking at the possibility of a leased line, it does not have contention issues nor does it have latency issues like broadband....but it is expensive and i may have to go for a lower speed i.e.256 kb but with no contention this might be okay.

I will up the prices when i get them....in the meantime i have kept my order for the eircom 1 meg line, due end of next week....unless i find something better in the meantime....

Anyone got any ideas...i need three pcs online simultaneously playing games....and i really would like to host my own gameserver in ireland for MOH Spearhead if possible....

:cool:

Kevok

If you're in an area covered by IBB, and what you say above is what you want, then go for the 1 meg option.

When hosting a games server, the upload speed is more important than the download, for that reason alone ADSL is not suitable.

IBBs one is 1meg up and down. I regularly host servers for Elite Force, a quake 3 game. English people ping 40 - 60 to me, mainland euros, 60 - 90, and 120 - 150 for americans. And recently I've been getting sub 20 pings to jolt, dunno how long it will last though, but i'm getting the most of it.

IBB's service is not the holy grail mind you, dropped packets (you'll notice these as stuttering in your game) occur more often than adsl, not enough to make you kick your radio, but when you're sniping someone in CS it can be a pain if it happens. And many people here will tell you about their 'customer service' :rolleyes:

But, I hope you can get it, as it is perfect for what you want, leap should be the same btw, check if you're in an area covered by them.

[Edit] It's impossible for them to give you reliable figures, there are FAR too many variable for them to take into account. Eircoms latency increase is at the Dslam, i think thats the first hop. So you would probably ping 30 - 40 to the first hop. Wireless BB, have as low as 3ms for the first hop, but that hop is where the largest amounts of packets are lost.[/Edit]

jyd

Cheers

I have dropped mail enquiries to both of these....there is no coverage at the moment but i will wait and see......I will take the eircom deal for 12 months......they will drop the price i pay when the new packages are released.....but this is still held up with the regulator

I have now heard that Eircom will look at turning off interleaving when the number of home users increases....this is from a good source....

I appreciate that i will not host too many users on broadband...but that is only a wish....i will be happy to get three pcs online first and then i will move on from there.:mad:

Dustaz

I have eircoms 512 service and tbh the ping isnt as bad as it seems.

40-70 on irish cs servers, 50-100 on uk ones depending on server quality.

Beats dialup.

jyd

Yeah...it beats analogue dialup but not ISDN dial up....I use a single channel isdn and get ping times of around 70-90 on jolt in the uk for MOH Spearhead......Now i will have more bandwidth but longer ping times...... it's a bummer

Sangre

Originally posted by Kevok
If you're in an area covered by IBB, and what you say above is what you want, then go for the 1 meg option.


IBB's service is not the holy grail mind you, dropped packets (you'll notice these as stuttering in your game) occur more often than adsl, not enough to make you kick your radio, but when you're sniping someone in CS it can be a pain if it happens. And many people here will tell you about their 'customer service' :rolleyes:

.[/Edit]

I had this problem Kevok, except every 2 minutes, my ping was 20 but unplayable. SO I rang them up and they installed a more stable radio, ping 30-40 but no stalling whats so ever. Trust me this is the better option by far.

Kevok

Good to hear you sorted yours out. Mine isn't as bad as i've seen others get mind. My friend with ADSL gets very few dropped packets. I get a very small percent, and usually you never notice, its only when you get a few at once.

What radio did you have before and what new one did they give you?

I have a USB one, but I would prefer an ethernet one so I can get a router. Also, what actual download speed do you get? And what AP (access point) are you on?

Dustaz

Originally posted by jyd
Yeah...it beats analogue dialup but not ISDN dial up....I use a single channel isdn and get ping times of around 70-90 on jolt in the uk for MOH Spearhead......Now i will have more bandwidth but longer ping times...... it's a bummer

No, it beats ISDN too.

Your ping will be roughly the same as it was on ISDN (maybe a ms or two higher - but you are NOT going to noticed that differece).

The big difference is in the bandwith. You have a much larger pipe to receive data on so you will rarely get any Choke or Loss, which does occur with isdn.

Koopa

actually it doesnt beat isdn.. ive had isdn for almost 3 years now, and its always been 25ms to the first hop or so - people i know have the eircom dsl package and they get 55ms to the first hop, quite a big difference.
the only way it beats isdn is in bandwidth, so basically isdn would be better in games which dont need more than 64k bandwidth, like qw(with qizmo compression) or q2 or small games of cs

i bet it was your terminal adapter giving you the bad ping on isdn.. eicon diva, and asuscom TA's usually give around 25ms to the first hop

jyd

Spot on Koopa If there was an unmetered isdn for 50-60 euro a month for both channels always on i.e. 128 kb i wthink i would not be moving to the eircom broadband...i would be waiting for esat to move into my area.....

KdjaCL

I hope you mean host a server for 2 or 3 people??
Because 1mb will hold no more and even then the 2/3 people on it will have to have DSL and live really close to you.

A spearhead server uses way to much bandwidth and overloads the CPU as the game is badly made.

Also i dont think your allowed to host a server.

kdjac

jyd

I have talked to the DVDF clan who have a server in the uk....they used a one meg link for 8 people......it's not a lot but it's a start..as for hosting a service....the package i went for gives me a static ip address and unlimited usage so hosting the server is no problem...all i need to do is publish the ip address to gamespy

I would need a synchronous dsl of 1 meg to get the server pumping...but as for the server...once i stick 1 gig ram in and use it dedicated..it will handle it fine.....

Check out the dvdf server with twenty users on it....ping times in ireland on single channell isdn are from 60-100 ms...it is the best by far...it is uk based.....

Kevok

As i said above jyd, for gaming servers the Eircom ADSL is not great, because of the poor upload.

Remember that your server has to send data to all players playing. So any server you make will only be as good as your upload speed. Your download will mean nothing unfortunately (in that case).

Praetorian

Originally posted by Koopa
actually it doesnt beat isdn.. ive had isdn for almost 3 years now, and its always been 25ms to the first hop or so - people i know have the eircom dsl package and they get 55ms to the first hop, quite a big difference.
the only way it beats isdn is in bandwidth, so basically isdn would be better in games which dont need more than 64k bandwidth, like qw(with qizmo compression) or q2 or small games of cs

i bet it was your terminal adapter giving you the bad ping on isdn.. eicon diva, and asuscom TA's usually give around 25ms to the first hop

Agreed...My isdn is far superior for pings to the UK & Ireland compared to my ADSL at work (1MB)

At least 20-30 MS difference

KdjaCL

A 20 man Spearhead server running full for 12 hours a day uses 134GB of bandwidth.

And with piss poor upload and latency your clients wont have an enjoyable stay on your server.

www.mohadmin.com or the website in my sig for MOH/SH server related stuff, you be able to play Team Assault with 3 or 4 people.

kdjac

quozl

Originally posted by KdjaC
A 20 man Spearhead server running full for 12 hours a day uses 134GB of bandwidth.

Is that per month? I heard of a co-lo package with 50 gigs bandwidth per month, but I didnt think it'd be enough for a decent games server. Didnt realise it'd be quite that bad though.
Greg

KdjaCL

Yah 134 GB per month ,makes ya think in terms of web site hosting how much server companies are losing, our web site host is $15 a month with 1 GB or somfin a month.

That 134GB was recorded off a server ,there are other usages stats one server The MOhaa Crews which is full nearly 24/7, 24 man MOH server used 310 GB in one month.
kdjac

Sangre

Originally posted by Kevok
Good to hear you sorted yours out. Mine isn't as bad as i've seen others get mind. My friend with ADSL gets very few dropped packets. I get a very small percent, and usually you never notice, its only when you get a few at once.

What radio did you have before and what new one did they give you?

I have a USB one, but I would prefer an ethernet one so I can get a router. Also, what actual download speed do you get? And what AP (access point) are you on?

I had the usb, kind of triangular in shape, now I have the ethernet alvarion radio. My download speeds will vary with the server of coarse, but I can easily get 63kb/s constant when its a decent download. Dont know what you mean my access point.

Kevok

Sandyford, RTÉ etc.

I don't know what the exact term is

Hmmm, did you have to pay anything extra for the Ethernet one?

Cian

Originally posted by Dustaz
I have eircoms 512 service and tbh the ping isnt as bad as it seems.

40-70 on irish cs servers, 50-100 on uk ones depending on server quality.

Beats dialup.

I have the same package as above, and i ping 70 - 120 to irish servers, a few ms higher to uk servers. To be fair, it doesnt really beat dial-up by much for me.,I use to get a reliable 150-180 ms on dial-up to irish servers.

Sangre

Originally posted by Kevok
Sandyford, RTÉ etc.

I don't know what the exact term is

Hmmm, did you have to pay anything extra for the Ethernet one?

Oh Sandyford, if there wasnt trees in the way I could see it

I think you're supposed to pay extra for ethernet if you get it originally but if didnt have to pay any extra because of the stalling. I sent them an email of my ping times in dos etc..

KdjaCL

Originally posted by Sangre
Oh Sandyford, if there wasnt trees in the way I could see it

Clondalkin DIY rent out chainsaws

kdjac

jyd

It would seem that definitely the gamers choice for online access is the utvinternet 150 hours for 30 euro (even though it is 64k). It has the best ping times and gives you a relatively flat rate access for relatively unlimited off peak gaming (5 hours per day)

The broadband is useful for downloads particularly the large EA patches that they up for their online games....

KdjaCL

ISDN is great for set pings to UK but if interleaving was on or off (i get confused lol) DSL would and should be better.

Dsl is better if you want to play on a US server ISDN will be a let down then.

Sad we cant have ickle pings of 20 and 25 or even single digits.

kdjac

Kevok

Could one of the mods split me and sangres convo from this thread? Thanks

Sangre, by any chance was this stalling happening primarily during peak hours, and also, did it make you get sub ISDN download speeds? I'm on Sandyford, and it sometimes happens to me (happened today actually). I just don't notice much cause i'm in college during the day.