Sellafield hit "could kill our entire population"

Bard

As reported in today's Evening Herald, as the Irish Government WINDS DOWN it's Emergency Planning Committee (set up in the wake of the 9/11 attacks), expert reports, commissioned by Greenpeace, now say that a hijacked airline crashing into the Welsh nuclear reprocessing plant would release 25 TIMES more radioactivity than the Chernobyl disaster, leading to the deaths of over 3.5 MILLION PEOPLE.

A leading doctor warned that Ireland has been left dangerously exposed in the event of a bio-terror attack. A hi-jacked plane could be as little as four minutes away from Sellafield after a course correction.

"It's another example of how dangerous and irresponsible the Government's 'Operation Ostrich' is", said Green Party leader, Trevor Sargent TD, adding: "They're just going along with George Bush's aggression which is a perfect recruiting opportunity for the likes of Al Qaeda. On all fronts, the Government has been criminally irresponsible."

Apparently sales of gas masks and nuclear biological and chemical suits have shot up in Ireland...

Kell

Another prime example of the Irish "Ah sure it'll never happen" attitude. I am stunned at the successive Irish govenrments lack of concern given that one of the worlds nuclear dinosaurs is sitting on our doorstep. I am equally surprised that as far back as 1992 I knew, and so did a lot of conservationalists and greens about the development of the THORP reprocessing plant yet it took until THORP going live in 2000 and something before anyone in power took note and decided to do anything about it.

Besides actually hitting the plant in a suicide plane, all someone has to do is ram a dinghy packed full of explosives into the side of a waste bearing cargo ship en-route from wherever to THORP to unleash havoc as per similar terrorist attack on a US war cruiser in some port a few years ago.

I could go on and on and on and on and........................

Oh I wish I were a dolphin in the Adams book "So long and thanks for all the fish". I wish I could fly too.

Talliesin

When you think about it, Sellafield is a much clearer and more immediate threat to our national security than anything in Baghdad is to the US's.

silverski

4 Minutes notice.

What would you do if you heard that it had been struck ???


Panic
Flee
Hide
Order a pizza
Where did I put those darn tablets

suppafly

yeah it is a really serious threat, and i agree with kell that they're of the attitude "it'll never happen", sure was that what they were sayin about an attack on america. We r completely f***** if they do hit it. Can anybody tell me what happened to that big campaign that they were havin over it. The one with all the postcards that were send to the prime minister, prince and head of some safety council or something? did anything come of that??

silverski

Seems nothing much happened.

But now we know what Bono's wife looks like.

It would have been a good Idea to keep check on the impact of the campaign.

Even if they were to decomission the site would we still be in trouble.

And then again where would they move the site to. Someone else's back garden.

daveirl

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therecklessone

Originally posted by Bard


Apparently sales of gas masks and nuclear biological and chemical suits have shot up in Ireland...

I'm just gonna duck and cover...:D

suppafly

Originally posted by daveirl
*cough* sensationalism.

Can I see a scientific report please!

come on will ya, that place is well dodgy it could in the next 5/10yrs blow itsefl cuz its such a dodgy operation, and anyway whether it is to get rid of it cuz of a terrorist threat or not they should just get rid of it. Its polluted the place enough already!

daveirl

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Kell

Originally posted by silverski
Seems nothing much happened.

Not exactly right. At present, I believe that the EU equivalent of a judge is reviewing all of the evidence to decide whether or not there is a valid case. It all comes down to whether or not the site should have undergone an environmental impact study. The campaigners are doing three things- Suing BNFL, Suing the Irish & British Governments for failure to have an impact study carried out so right now, it's a sort of limbo.

Daveirl- not outright no. You would need several bombs the equivalent of Hiroshima in all major cities in our paltry country. The eventual fallout and the fact that we would be pulling pre-fried fish from our sea, as well as genetic imbalances and anomalies in our own genes for the next several millennia ratifies the theory of killing us all. It might as well be metaphorical but if we are around for another millions years on the planet, Ireland will be unrecognisable.

Lemming

Originally posted by daveirl
regardless. killing our entire population is just rubbish.

The only way it would actually wipe out the entire populace of Ireland is if a medium to high-grade nuclear storage "shed" at Sellafield got hit by terrorists. The resulting blast would take us, the entire UK, and parts of the European coastal countries out with it. (If a high-grade shed got hit - say goodbye to pretty much all of West/North Europe)

[Note]: High-grade = weapons-grade material

Kell

Originally posted by daveirl
regardless. killing our entire population is just rubbish.

Quick factual math- reprocessing 1 tonnes of Uranium Fuel rods produces 10x the amount of radioactive waste using current reprocessing methods. (1992, some marine scientist magazine I was taking information from for my campaign against THORP for the European Youth Parliament)

How many tonnes of spent fuel rods came over from Japan in the highly criticised shipment last year, which was highly illegal and broke maritime law left right and centre (we should sue being earth concious people). So, take that tonnage and multiply x10 add it to the original tonnage and then stick a fuse on it. Take insane Al Quaida pilot at controls of Boeing 747, that he has learned to fly using Microsoft Flight Sim and point at fuse (dome of reactor number 1 in Cumbria) and let rip. A bonfire night not to be forgotton.

I am not worried though. At the moment of impact I shall metamorphose into a dolphin from Goodbye and Thanks for all the fish, and leave this doomed planet. Mark my words- any attack on a nuclear facility by terrorists would probably bring about WWIII.

Typedef

Originally posted by Bard
As reported in today's Evening Herald, as the Irish Government WINDS DOWN it's Emergency Planning Committee (set up in the wake of the 9/11 attacks), expert reports, commissioned by Greenpeace, now say that a hijacked airline crashing into the Welsh nuclear reprocessing plant would release 25 TIMES more radioactivity than the Chernobyl disaster, leading to the deaths of over 3.5 MILLION PEOPLE.

A leading doctor warned that Ireland has been left dangerously exposed in the event of a bio-terror attack. A hi-jacked plane could be as little as four minutes away from Sellafield after a course correction.

If you want to gaurantee that a plane could never be used to strike against the Sellafield plant, the only acutal solution is to 'invest' in say, twenty or thiry F-18s from the Americans and be prepaired to use those planes to shoot down hijacked passenger airplanes.

The fact is Sellafield is a military by-product, a symptom of the British national desire to posess Nuclear weapons and it would be ironic indeed if a 'terrorist' strike against Sellafield, ended up killing millions of Britons, since the logic (and I use the term loosely) behind building Nuclear weapons to begin with, was the deterrant from attack such weapons provide.

Kell

Originally posted by Typedef
The fact is Sellafield is a military by-product, a symptom of the British national desire to posess Nuclear weapons

I dont think it ever was a military oriented project. Sellafield heralded the new age in cheap, clean electricity for the UK and was heavily flouted as such at the time. There may be truth in what you have to say, I am just lost as to where to find it. (just that particular bit)

Typedef

Actually the then WindScale was primarily built so the British could make weapons grade plutonium.

http://www.bellona.no/en/energy/nuclear/sellafield/24757.html

The bomb producers
Calder Hall and Chapelcross were some of the first industrial reactors in the world, and both were crucial to the United Kingdom’s early nuclear weapons programme. BNFL’ s Chief Executive, Norman Askew, said: --We would continue to run these pioneering workhorses of the nuclear industry while they remain safe and economic. They are still safe but the electricity prices have fallen significantly and to a level that makes them uneconomic.

Calder Hall was opened by Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II in 1956. Chapelcross began electricity production in 1969. In the 1950s the demand for weapons-grade plutonium was increasing, and together with the four new reactors at Chapelcross in Scotland, the reactors in Calder Hall were to supply the necessary quantity of weapons-grade plutonium. It is assumed that two of the reactors at Calder Hall were utilised to produce weapons-grade plutonium in 1978 and 1979. Moreover it is believed that as recently as 1986-1989, the reactors produced 400 kilograms of weapons-grade plutonium, which was reprocessed in B205 and delivered to the British Army. In sum, the four reactors at Calder Hall have allegedly produced more than two tonnes of weapons-grade plutonium.

Kell

My profound apologies for doubting you superior wisdom-

K

therecklessone

Originally posted by Typedef
If you want to gaurantee that a plane could never be used to strike against the Sellafield plant, the only acutal solution is to 'invest' in say, twenty or thiry F-18s from the Americans and be prepaired to use those planes to shoot down hijacked passenger airplanes.

Could be a waste of money mate. Imagine the plane gets airborne from Dublin for example, sets course for South-West UK on an airway known as R14(I know my **** on this one). Terrorists take control quite early, say as aircraft passes 10,000 feet (it'll still be in our airspace at this stage, unless (a) its a non-jet, or (b) its broken), and start to aim at Sellafield. Irish airspace ends about 25 miles off our East coast. By the time you've alerted the boys in the 'Don the plane is no more, and neither is Sellafield. They would only be effective if a terrorist attempt became known early enough, such as on an East-bound transatlantic flight 200 miles West of Ireland. That is unless you favour a military escort for every aircraft transitting Irish airspace...or maybe just a patrol off the east coast perhaps?

Shinji

that place is well dodgy it could in the next 5/10yrs blow itsefl cuz its such a dodgy operation

Ahhh yes, reasoned, well-supported arguments. It's "well dodgy" and could "blow itself" at any minute (without having ribs removed, presumably - impressive). Sellafield doesn't have a perfect safety record by any means but this isn't another Chernobyl waiting to happen all on its own. The problem with the Sellafield plant isn't the danger of a single massive pollution event, it's the danger of long-term slow radioactive pollution. That's not a good thing, believe you me; but this kind of scaremongering is worse.

The only way it would actually wipe out the entire populace of Ireland is if a medium to high-grade nuclear storage "shed" at Sellafield got hit by terrorists. The resulting blast would take us, the entire UK, and parts of the European coastal countries out with it.

Cor - terrorists have worked out how to make a shed full of high-grade weapons material into the most powerful nuclear weapon on earth without going through ANY of the crazy science stuff the military uses to make nuclear weapons? Someone inform Donald Rumsfield - the US Military will save billions!

(If a storage facility full of high grade weapons radioactives was "hit" by terrorists the result would be a cloud of heavy radioactive isotopes which would cause a very high instance of cancer in the immediate vicinity, falling off rapidly over a space of a few miles but still remaining a (marginal) danger hundreds of miles away, depending on factors such as prevailing winds and the scale of the attack on the facility.)



I'm no fan of Sellafield, or of any fission plant - especially one which has weak security or safety regulations. But this kind of misinformation and cries that the sky will fall in tomorrow are, well, exactly the sort of false media crap that has put the USA in its current appalling social state...

Koopa

actually, i think he was pointing out "the risk of" setting off a nuclear fission fuelled explosion if a weapons-grade material storage facility was hit, which is real - although it wouldnt exactly "blow northern europe off the map", it could have large consequences for ireland/uk - similar to if a fission bomb was dropped at the site.
part of the reason this kind of facility hasnt been hit already, is no doubt because these kinds of facilities dont stick out like the twin towers of new york, and would probably be better defended as well

there is no "crazy science stuff" in a basic fission bomb, the hardest part is producing enough fissionable material

Shinji

actually, i think he was pointing out "the risk of" setting off a nuclear fission reaction if a weapons-grade material storage facility was hit, which is real - although it wouldnt exactly blow europe off the map, it could have large consequences for ireland/uk

Potentially yeah. Let's be clear, driving airplanes into places that hold fissile materials isn't a good thing. However, you don't get a "blast", you get a nasty "fizzle" (which would leak a LOT of rads and give you a possible meltdown scenario).

Two things though....

* Weapons grade fissibles aren't stored in sheds. I'd be surprised if they're in anything less than military grade bunkers.

* The storage for these materials would be specifically designed to prevent them from reaching critical mass, even in the event of a major impact.


You're dead right about the difficulty of hitting these things, too. It takes significant pilot training to hit a runway. Hitting an individual building at ground level in the middle of a cluster of other buildings would be the work of a flying genius.

Not to mention that an AA battery located on the ground at Sellafield would foil any such attack. You don't need to scramble fighter jets to shoot down a slow-moving passenger airplane with no defence against anti-air measures.

Koopa

Not to mention that an AA Battery located on the ground at Sellafield would foil any such attack

had to read that 3 times before i figured it out, haha
never underestimate the power of an AA battery lying on the ground

daveg

If you want to gaurantee that a plane could never be used to strike against the Sellafield plant, the only acutal solution is to 'invest' in say, twenty or thiry F-18s from the Americans and be prepaired to use those planes to shoot down hijacked passenger airplanes.

and why F-18's. Would the UK's airforce not take care of this issue say with their strike attack aircraft such as Tornado's/harriers/Jaguar. I think so.

"Quote from the Gardian"

The task of shooting down a hijacked commercial airliner has been assigned to RAF Tornado F3 fighters based at Coningsby, Lincolnshire.

daveg

oh....my....god....

Read this...

http://www.rense.com/general34/kills.htm

daveirl

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suppafly

why r u so aggressively defending sellafield?? Ok i don't really think thats its going to kill off our whole population but its going to kill a large number and make a big section of this country uninhabitable, namly the whole eastern seaboard. The place even without the terrorist attack has done enough damage already, by polluting th irish sea so much that it is the most radioactive sea in the world now!