Current State of Friaco

aidan_dunne

[Moderators note : This reply was taken from the First Tuesday thread, just to provide some context]

Originally posted by Dangger
.....the event will be followed by networking.....

So don't forgot to bring your 10/100 NIC's and your spools of Cat 5!

Seriously though, if you get a chance to corner Peter Evans, ask him how things are progressing with the FRICAO negotiations with Eircom. Try to find out if there is any sign of a light at the end of the tunnel yet and if there's any indication what the wholesale and retail prices might be.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by aidan_dunne
Seriously though, if you get a chance to corner Peter Evans, ask him how things are progressing with the FRICAO negotiations with Eircom. Try to find out if there is any sign of a light at the end of the tunnel yet and if there's any indication what the wholesale and retail prices might be.

Negotiations are over. Eircom have been directed to introduce a limited form of FRIACO.

aidan_dunne

Originally posted by SkepticOne
Negotiations are over. Eircom have been directed to introduce a limited form of FRIACO.

Since when? I was under the impression that negotiations between Eircom, the OLO's and ISP's and ComReg were still ongoing. We know that the Minister has directed Eircom to introduce FRIACO but they have never officially said they would. It has been indicated in the press by Eircom representatives that they will not stand in the way of FRIACO but, like I said, have Eircom officially come out and offered it yet? Until there is 110% confirmed, positive proof that FRIACO will go ahead, I'm still going to maintain a "wait and see" attitude to it all. Unless, of course, I have missed something lately in which case would it be possible to provide a link to the announcement or to a thread here that mentions it.

Also, what's this about a "limited form" of FRIACO? This is also the first I've heard of this. You seem to know a lot more than the rest of us regarding all this, SkepticOne, so can you enlighten us more, or is this something that can't be discussed at the moment for legal reasons? What will this "limited form" of FRIACO entail? Are we talking about something like the current NetSmart/UTVip offerings of pre-paid "chunks" of time online? That can't be considered FRIACO though, can it?

SkepticOne

Originally posted by aidan_dunne
Since when? I was under the impression that negotiations between Eircom, the OLO's and ISP's and ComReg were still ongoing.

On December 24, ComReg announced that negotiations had stalled:

In June 2002, two other licensed operators (OLOs) submitted Statements of Requirements to eircom requesting a Flat Rate Internet Access Call Origination (FRIACO) service on the 1893 internet access code. From this time until the 28th November a range of private and commercial negotiations on FRIACO were undertaken. However as it became clear that discussions had reached a point where further progress was unlikely to be achieved in any reasonable timeframe, ComReg intervened to establish a forum between eircom and the two requesting OLOs with the aim of expediting the process and ultimately enabling the delivery of the product. The main purpose of the forum was to produce an agreed FRIACO product description.

(source)

We know that the Minister has directed Eircom to introduce FRIACO but they have never officially said they would.

Ahern never actually directed Eircom to do anything. The text of a draft directive was issued before Christmas seeking responses from the public and interested parties. The FRIACO bit was part of a larger proposed directive to ComReg:

* The widespread availability of dial-up access to the internet charged at flat rates would be of substantial benefit to users as well as for the further development of the market for internet access provision. In the first instance, the development and provision of such access services are matters for market players. The Commission shall make use of its powers under the legislation as appropriate, to bring about agreements among market players for the provision to the public of dial-up internet access charged at flat rates. The Commission shall report to the Minister on progress in relation to this matter within one month of the issue of these Directions, making any recommendations it considers appropriate for further action.

(source).

Note that the final directive has not yet been issued, Minister Dermot Ahern has not yet directed anyone to do anything.

It has been indicated in the press by Eircom representatives that they will not stand in the way of FRIACO but, like I said, have Eircom officially come out and offered it yet? Until there is 110% confirmed, positive proof that FRIACO will go ahead,

I'm still going to maintain a "wait and see" attitude to it all. Unless, of course, I have missed something lately in which case would it be possible to provide a link to the announcement or to a thread here that mentions it.

I agree with the "wait and see" approach. All that has happened so far is that ComReg has directed Eircom to introduce FRIACO. What this means is that it is no longer down to negotiations between OLOs and Eircom. If Eircom refuses to bring out FRIACO then they will be in defiance of ComReg.

lso, what's this about a "limited form" of FRIACO? This is also the first I've heard of this. You seem to know a lot more than the rest of us regarding all this, SkepticOne, so can you enlighten us more, or is this something that can't be discussed at the moment for legal reasons? What will this "limited form" of FRIACO entail?

Limited insofar as the OLO is required to interconnect at primary (the lowest level of Eircom's network) level and not all primary exchanges are included in the directive. A full list is is in ComReg's decision notice here.

Are we talking about something like the current NetSmart/UTVip offerings of pre-paid "chunks" of time online? That can't be considered FRIACO though, can it?

It is important to remember that FRIACO is a wholesale product consisting blocks of capacity on Eircom's network. As such, the FRIACO product is 24/7, however the ISP seeking to share out this resource among subscribers may choose not to bring out a 24/7 unlimited flat rate retail service.

Dustaz

There seems to be a bit of confusion about the current state of FRIACO and Skeptic provided a good explanation so ive stuck it in a new thread for easy reference. (and it was totally OT in the other one )

LoBo

when do you think the irish customer will be able to get flat rate dialup?

i'm in australia now so only been able to catch up with goings on occasionally - this thread was useful - but i'd like to know what you all think in regards to the above question. After all, to Joe Irish all this discussion and directives means little - I want to see it actually happen

Colm

SkepticOne

Not before July, 2003. Only out of some exchanges. Maybe never.