Priorities.

LegacyUser · 03-09-2001 12:44pm #1

Greetings all,

I'm afraid that with all the acronyms, and the info blitzkrieg that we're getting on the forum, that there's a chance that we're losing focus.

I'm pretty confident that some form of ADSL will exist in Dublin sometime over the next few months - however, I reckon we need to focus a decent amount of priority on decent dialup access (FRIACO) It could be (listening to Soula Evans) as much as 2/3 years away before some parts of the country get ADSL - so a concerted effort to focus on a flat rate model might be more beneficial to internet users.

I'm not saying I don't want broadband - hell I do!! But from what I'm seeing, it's going to be a year before I can get ADSL, and I want something now - with an infrastructure that's in place now - so there should be a major effort to get Eircom to implement a flat rate charge to allow for both them and the OLO's to provide a service to heavy internet users.

Tim

LegacyUser · 03-09-2001 12:51pm

I wholeheartedly agree - at the end of the day, there is very little that we can do to force the telcos to roll out broadband on anything other than their own terms.

On the other hand, FRIACO is something that is currently going nowhere, judging from the seminar. It is also something that we can do something about: embarrass Eircom, the govt and the ODTR into action - FRIACO can pretty much be turned on at the flick of a switch, we just need to persuade those people that it is in their best interest to do so.

Gavin · 03-09-2001 1:23pm

Aye, I agree. I have to ask.. Why do yee want Broadband ? A lot of people are just jumping on the bandwagon.. they have broadband.. why cant we.

The fact of the matter is that a flat rate always on, 56-128kb connection is all that most people need. Anything can be downloaded, given time.. Just leave it going all night/weekend/week long.

What is really required, i think, is flat rate ISDN. A nice low latency and sufficient bandwidth to make use of the latency.

As i see it, broadband is not a priority ( as said above ) for the general internet user.

Gav

( as to all my sweeping statements.. the man who generalises, generally lies..

however, i think that i am right in most of my statements )

LegacyUser · 03-09-2001 1:45pm

Originally posted by Verb:
The fact of the matter is that a flat rate always on, 56-128kb connection is all that most people need. Anything can be downloaded, given time..

As i see it, broadband is not a priority ( as said above ) for the general internet user.

Gav

( as to all my sweeping statements.. the man who generalises, generally lies.. however, i think that i am right in most of my statements )

I agree with most of your comments. However, I for one find that downloading .5 GB over a flat rate ISDN or 56k line is too slow. I beta test a lot of products and if I were to depend on speeds such as these, I'd be driven to distraction.

I accept that your comments are mainly intended for "general users" To a large degree, I am a general user but from time to time I find myself straying from probably you, and Eircom would class as one. And no - I'm not an MP3 downloader!

[This message has been edited by Mountjoy Mugger (edited 03-09-2001).]

LegacyUser · 03-09-2001 2:46pm

Originally posted by hudson806:
It is also something that we can do something about: embarrass Eircom, ...

Is this possible? Remember their speech at the seminar? I was embarassed for them.

yellum · 03-09-2001 3:28pm

Originally posted by timod:

that there's a chance that we're losing focus.

......so a concerted effort to focus on a flat rate model might be more beneficial to internet users.

Good point Tim. Most energy should be spent on one or two objectives but I think energy should also be spent on other things such as PR "stunts".

Some of the ideas Devore came up with to get more public support are just as important. The more public embarassment for Eircom and the more people knowing and discussing this the better.

Public pressure can work. Its worked against tyranical governments and worked against big corporations. It can work against a badly run local Telco too.

LegacyUser · 03-09-2001 3:51pm

I agree on this issue. I also think it's still no reason to not do broadband asap.

However, I'm rapidly tiring of any sympathy for eircom's arguments against FRIACO. Their profits are secondary to the needs of the rest of the country.

This is pretty much a carbon copy of the CUT campaign in the UK. All the material is there already. Just copy it.

LegacyUser · 03-09-2001 3:53pm

I'm a general user, and i'd like to see broadband. Yeah, i do download mp3s, or movies or whatever. Still shouldnt have to wait days and pay insane prices.

I had a couple of hundred megs of notes in my college account. These things i should be able to access from home rather then waste time travelling and writing them to cd's.

I also want to see broadband because the likes of eircom see us as a hindrance rather then a client/customer base. That in itself is simply wrong.

I think this is an interesting comparison:

"And as if to compensate them for the biting cold, Icelanders do not have to worry about the cost of going online. A local call in Iceland costs just 0.78 kroner per minute (0.006p) off peak and Siminn's Internet service costs £8 a month for as much access as users want. While there are only two or three competitors in most businesses in Iceland, there are ten ISPs, showing just how popular the market is. Siminn's mobile rival Tal for example offers an unmetered Internet service for around £10 a month."

"Siminn could certainly teach BT a lesson about ADSL. It has had a service since 1999 and, while it is expensive (around £36 a month for a 512mbps connection, plus a monthly connectivity fee of £56) Siminn says it has had a good response to the service. For those that can't afford it, Siminn also offers a cable modem service which is considerably cheaper at around £30 a month."

That's from an article about a year old

From April this year:

"There are some options on the horizon, but right now ADSL is the only real choice. You pay the telco USD17/mo for a 256/128 ADSL line, 54 for 512/256, and 130 for 1.5Mbps/384Kbps.

Then come your ISP's charges. I chose the ISP branch of the same telco as my ISP. The price depends on how much traffic is included: USD13 for 100MB, 35 for 1GB, 59 for 2GB, 83 for 3GB. Traffic above the limit is 2.7 cents per MB."

Sorry for the long post, but Iceland's population is only 1/4 of a million!!! So surely the fact that we're a small country can't come into it - Dublin alone is 4 times the size!!!!

LegacyUser · 03-09-2001 3:59pm

There is really no argument.

Also, forcing FRIACO would give a lot more impetus to eircom to get into the 21st century and rollout the more appropriate technology like DSL, switch bypass, etc.

We could make this issue much wider by exposing to everyone that all local (within ireland) calls could be covered by the current or maybe a slightly higher rental, and NO CALL CHARGES.

[This message has been edited by Fergus (edited 03-09-2001).]

LegacyUser · 03-09-2001 10:27pm

To be honest, as I said before, I'd be much more in favour of getting flat-rate and FRIACO going before DSL. Lets face it, flat-rate would be a much easier and faster process to get going than DSL. In the space of a few days, Eircom could have FRIACO up and running in this country rather than having to wait ages for DSL to be rolled out.

Of course, like everybody else, my mouth waters at the thought of ADSL but, for the moment, I'd be perfectly happy to settle for dial up flat-rate access, as would most people I talk to.

Maybe Eircom should concentrate on getting FRIACO operating for most customers first with DSL limited to business customers and than start expanding the DSL services to residential customers? I know that idea would not make me popular with the gamers here, but I think we do need to get our priorities straight and I strongly feel that would be the way to go.

[This message has been edited by aidan_dunne (edited 03-09-2001).]

LegacyUser · 03-09-2001 11:23pm

Originally posted by aidan_dunne:
To be honest, as I said before, I'd be much more in favour of getting flat-rate and FRIACO going before DSL.

I know that idea would not make me popular with the gamers here, but I think we do need to get our priorities straight and I strongly feel that would be the way to go.

The only gamers you would be annoying Aidan would be the ones living in Dublin and possibly Cork/Limerick, i myself used to play C/S for around 30/40 hrs a week but haven't played an online game since the 31/06/2001 and FRIACO is THE first priority as far as i'm concerned. I'd like to see a list compiled maybe saying how many ppl from each county are a member of IOFFL just to give an overview i'd say theres a LOT of ppl involved here who mite never see broadband, at least not in this generation.

I do honestly think that unless we take some drastic action to make eircom look bad FRIACO will be a long way off and broadband isn't that close either, the one thing i am happy about tho is that our esteemed chairman "o_donnell_abu" is from a rural area and not Dublin otherwise we'd never see FRIACO. Like Dev says tho give it another month and if nothing happens action will have to be taken, dunno about other ppl but i'm not here to make friends either.

Farls

Gavin · 04-09-2001 9:31am

On that point. Gamers don't need broadband.. They need flat rate 56k or isdn.

Gav

LegacyUser · 04-09-2001 10:36am

With the amount of information being sent between game and server is increasing with newer games like OFP and Tribes 2. On a 56k line these games are unplayable, we need broadband.

url="http://www.ClanNESW.org"][i]NESW[/i][/urlEl_MUERkOurl="http://www.CoFR.net"][i]CoFR[/i][/url

Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again

LegacyUser · 04-09-2001 10:51am

As far as broadband is concerned, I think a realistic goal could be that some sort of rollout programme is in place an that eventually all urban areas will be covered within a certain timescale. This is by no means assured. The only thing we have is that Eircom will rollout ADSL in parts of Dublin and further implementation will depend on what they consider economically feasible. In areas where small businesses are spending hundreds of pounds on ISDN, it may not suit them to rollout ADSL. So I think the goal here would be to get some sort of binding commitment out of Eircom on this.

However, if there must be a priority, it would be FRIACO (IMHO).

[This message has been edited by Skeptic1 (edited 04-09-2001).]

LegacyUser · 04-09-2001 10:52am

[duplicate post]

[This message has been edited by Skeptic1 (edited 04-09-2001).]

Gavin · 04-09-2001 11:25am

Originally posted by El_MUERkO:
With the amount of information being sent between game and server is increasing with newer games like OFP and Tribes 2. On a 56k line these games are unplayable, we need broadband.

Lower your rate.. You don't need broadband, this is yet another myth. What gamers need is isdn, that's it. I'm not familiar with the newer games, but quake/quakeII/quakeIII all only need a modem connection to be playable, ISDN to be better

. There is no need for 256kb of bandwidth for a game.

Gav

Kix · 04-09-2001 11:32am

Originally posted by El_MUERkO:
With the amount of information being sent between game and server is increasing with newer games like OFP and Tribes 2. On a 56k line these games are unplayable, we need broadband.

Well, Tribes 2 is not "unplayable" on 56k, I used to play it quite a lot and it was no worse than CS. The voice stuff was hopeless at that speed but the game was quite playable. OPF is probably a different story.

Regardless, fixed rate ISDN would be more than enough to cover the needs of most gamers. Nice low pings (the most important thing) and sufficient bandwidth. Personally, I'd go for it over ADSL if the price difference was significant.

K

LegacyUser · 04-09-2001 11:38am

yes verb, you are right, I play quake and elite force online, and I usually get aprox ping of 250/300. Now I can play with this ping, but i am at a great disadvantage when there is german and english blokes going around with a ping of 30 (adsl). They kill me before I even see them...

Playing online is no fun without broadband (low latency). I did play online a couple of times from work with ISDN with a ping of 80. Personally, I would be happy with flat-rate ISDN, but of course would prefare adsl or cable.

LegacyUser · 04-09-2001 11:43am

Originally posted by Kix:

Regardless, fixed rate ISDN would be more than enough to cover the needs of most gamers. Nice low pings (the most important thing) and sufficient bandwidth. Personally, I'd go for it over ADSL if the price difference was significant.

That's the thing though: ADSL costs very little more to provide than ISDN, and is far more efficient for the Telco to operate. We should discourage them from trying to skew this fact for commercial gain. Plus, of course, for most people, DSL is infinitely preferable to ISDN.

Personally, I see Flat-rate as a reasonable stop gap until broadband is available all over the place, but to aim for Flat-Rate as a long term solution, when DSL is available is madness.

LegacyUser · 04-09-2001 3:01pm

The man speaks the truth. As Eircom continue to stall on broadband, we should be pushing for a flat rate service. I saw in a different thread the opinion that this could go on until christmas, whereas flat-rate can be setup very quickly.

So Flat-rate can at least be a temporary solution.

LegacyUser · 04-09-2001 7:52pm

FRIACO would just give eircom more time to stall..... it's a useless waste of time.

**** FRIACO broadband now.... we're so behind all the other countries in europe. If eircom launch FRIACO then they'll drag their feet on dsl....

we need broadband... we need to be taken into the 21st century.... FRIACO is 20th century... leave it behind we missed it, so what.... gimme BB NOW.

Priorities.

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