Is flat rate access Internet finally here?

Bard

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">From http://www.techcentral.ie/scope/120271-201789.xml :

When the rollout of flat-rate Internet access in Ireland is usually mentioned in Ireland, there usually follows a rolling of eyeballs and groans of disappointment.

Dogged by long delays and reneged promises, announcements of a broadband rollout are increasingly met with disbelief. But now there are two developments that may be the answer to Ireland’s Internet inertia.

Following trials in Limerick if its PowerNet product, Chorus is planning to launch a high-speed Internet service that will cover all parts of Dublin and which will be spread throughout Ireland on a phased basis.

Chorus plans to offer a dedicated broadband service mainly for small to medium enterprises at bandwidths of 128, 256 and 512kbit/s, using wireless in the local loop (WLL) technology. Subscribers will need to have a cable modem installed and have a wireless ‘transceiver’ positioned on their roof to establish a clear line of sight between their premises and a local PowerNet station. There will be a single user and LAN version of the service, with monthly download limits of 10Gbyte on the LAN services.

Sarah Lawless, general manager Chorus Business Services, said the high-speed package to be offered in Dublin would be a high-spec version of the service already operating in Limerick. She added that though costs were not yet set, ‘the pricing model for the three bandwidth levels is competitive enough to allow companies make a savings on their IP traffic’.

The second development is Eircom’s plan to launch its first flat-rate Internet digital subscriber line (DSL) service at the end of September 2001. A company spokeswoman declined to offer any further information about the service other than the product would be an always-on Internet access and would be suited to businesses and those who are heavy Internet users.

However this rollout may be delayed by several months as the telecoms regulator Etain Doyle wants to examine both the wholesale charges Eircom plans to levy on other telecom service providers for access to the ‘local loop’ and Eircom’s bitstream pricing proposals. Eircom will not be able to introduce its own ADSL or high-speed Internet service over existing copper phone wires until the examination is complete.

Doyle also recently outlined a set of emerging technologies that may offer alternative access to broadband services in the medium term. Optical wireless – a technology that uses light signals without having to install cables – could be a cost effective system that couples high reliability with easy rollout.

Another alternative is High Altitude Platform Stations (HAPS) where users are connected to a network via a high-flying aircraft working in a way similar to satellite communication. Another technology currently in development is Software Defined Radio (SDR), a flexible radio technology that can be modified to operate different types of service.

But for those fed up with slow Internet access, any optil will do, just give it to us quick
www.chorus.ie

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Etain Doyle will be at today's IrelandOffline Seminar in the Conrad Hotel (3.45pm - 7pm). We are also expecting a representative of Chorus to be present.

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Bard

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'First motorbike in the bible ???? ---- a Triumph --- 'Yea verily Moses struck down the ammmanites and all the land heard the roar of his triumph !!!'

LegacyUser

Is flat rate access Internet finally here?

No.

dahamsta

A "cable modem" for WLL? "High Altitude Platform Stations". Is this person real?

adam

LegacyUser

hmm all of dublin now, orginaly it was just the south, hopefully this will push eircom to release ADSL on the north side

edit this is great news, even if it doesnt happen yet at leased Chorus have Droped the 3gb limit for something a little less restrictive, i cant see eircom offering a 1gb limit now



[This message has been edited by Gladiator (edited 29-08-2001).]

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gladiator:
edit this is great news, even if it doesnt happen yet at leased Chorus have Droped the 3gb limit for something a little tell restrictive, i cant see eircom offering a 1gb limit now
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Well, the term "flat-rate" is often used loosely by service providers. Often it means there is a pre-paid number of hours or bytes rather than unmetered.

LegacyUser

No this is not flatrate!!

I thought the purpose of this group was firstly to get flatrate on normal 56k phonelines and then to concentrate on high speed. I only use the internet to chat to friends abroad on messenger services and therefore have no need whatsoever for a costly high speed flatrate - I'm sure there are many others like me. All I want is to be able to get online when I want for a decent fee. I knw a lot of people need high speed but please please don't forget about us who don't and continue in the efforts to get Eircom to unbundle the loop ASWELL as getting high speed.

Ta

LegacyUser

i am very skeptical about the rollout of flatrate/broadband internet in ireland. telcos won't do it unless they will HAVE to, which they don't really have to do because is again their interest. also i am pretty confident eircom will try to delay as much as possible the moment when 3rd subjects will be able to lay hands on their valuable copperwires. there is no real reason for eircom or anyone else to let ppl clog the phone lines for hours at low or no cost with flatrate internet access when those very lines can be used to route paying traffic.

HAPS? WLL? SDR? optical wireless? these guys are just trying to squeeze a bit of money off those small companies currently billed big money for dodgy ISDN or EXPENSIVE E1 connections with no any other alternative.

LegacyUser

Well said Julie. I wholeheartedly agree with your statement, and so should we all.!!
Quote.

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No this is not flatrate!!
I thought the purpose of this group was firstly to get flatrate on normal 56k phonelines and then to concentrate on high speed. I only use the internet to chat to friends abroad on messenger services and therefore have no need whatsoever for a costly high speed flatrate - I'm sure there are many others like me. All I want is to be able to get online when I want for a decent fee. I knw a lot of people need high speed but please please don't forget about us who don't and continue in the efforts to get Eircom to unbundle the loop ASWELL as getting high speed.

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We should never forget the "real" reason for the start of all of this. !! Which Julie has pointed out

[This message has been edited by angryuser (edited 29-08-2001).]

LegacyUser

<rant>
If you two would stop *****ing and moaning for a second or two and discover whats happening with ireland offline u'd see that unmetered 56k access is being campaigned for aswell. There will be a lot of people like ureselves that dont need a permenant high speed connection. Grand! whatever floats your boat. The way things are looking it seems that broadband will be here (in its many forms) before unmetered 56k will. In fact it looks quite likely that when (if) LLU is completed, UTV Internet will be in the republic like a shot offering unmetered 56k and isdn.

If you dont want/need a broadband connection you might be waiting for some time after its commercial release to get your hands on an unmetered 56k deal.

</rant>

LegacyUser

Calm down rymus!! It's only a simple statement - I'm sure all our times will come eventually!! Sometime *LOL*

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rymus:

<rant>
If you two would stop *****ing and moaning for a second or two and discover whats happening with ireland offline u'd see that unmetered 56k access is being campaigned for aswell. There will be a lot of people like ureselves that dont need a permenant high speed connection. Grand! whatever floats your boat. The way things are looking it seems that broadband will be here (in its many forms) before unmetered 56k will. In fact it looks quite likely that when (if) LLU is completed, UTV Internet will be in the republic like a shot offering unmetered 56k and isdn.

If you dont want/need a broadband connection you might be waiting for some time after its commercial release to get your hands on an unmetered 56k deal.

</rant></font>

LegacyUser

TO Julie:

The FRIACO issue was something discussed @ length @ the seminar today. Believe me it is a major issue. I'd say all in all given the various retorts from all parties it consumed the most time in the Q & A session.

An I know Our "esteemed" chairman has this issue very much @ heart!!

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80p.
SAVE CHIP !!

LegacyUser

You say you can get Powernet in Limerick but I rang Chorus and when I asked about internet deals the said that they will have one with there Digital TV Package in October and that was the only one. Should I have mentioned Powernet? Perhaps I'll try.......

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I'm a card captor........

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gladiator:
hmm all of dublin now, orginaly it was just the south, hopefully this will push eircom to release ADSL on the north side
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HoHoHo. The impression I got today from Eircom was one of an unrepentent brat that wants to get its own way.

From the interpretation I got of something one of the Eircom reps (Pat something or other)said today that basically we shouldn't be bothering them[Eircom] about FRIACO and such, be grateful what we've got, and wait for them to roll out IP based services and that if we were to bother them, it'd only result in a delay of IP based service roll-out.

My only question to that is "When will we realistically see IP based service?" 2 months?, 6 months?, 6 years?

Given Eircoms past behaviour on DSL, IP based service roll out anytime within the reasonable future doesn't seem likely.

Of course, I may be wrong in all this!

Right .. enough ranting from me anyway

LegacyUser

Oops .. and I just realised that entire rant had bugger all to do with flat-rate access.

I do apologise!! )

*runs and hides*

LegacyUser

Effectively, eircom have said they aren't planning to offer FRIACO, and Esat have said the days for the remaining No Limits users are numbered.

It's a reasonable argument but to say FRIACO doesn't make sense over the voice network. Grand.

But then, that says that DSL makes even more sense. And it's far from accepted that "DSL no limits" should cost any more than "dial-up no limits".

And I think there's a case for FRIACO to be offered, even at a loss, in places where DSL cannot be delivered. More incentive to sort it out.

dahamsta

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Digi_Tilmitt:
You say you can get Powernet in Limerick but I rang Chorus and when I asked about internet deals the said that they will have one with there Digital TV Package in October and that was the only one. Should I have mentioned Powernet? Perhaps I'll try.......</font>

Etain Doyle mentioned this in her speech too. (I wasn't at the seminar, but the text of Ms. Doyle's speech was released on their website, apparently before or during the actual speech. [Thanks to Alex for posting it to the IIU list.]) She said, with reference to Internet usage in Ireland: "With cable operators set to roll out their Internet offerings over the coming months, this ill undoubtedly increase further."

I can't understand this, when the information I've been presented with is that NTL have suspended rollouts of their two-way digital network, and are currently only upgrading portions of their network to one-way digital. Which of course couldn't realistically support an Internet service without utilising some other technology for the upstream.

So which is it?

I haven't read Ms. Doyle's report entirely yet, but already some of it appears to clash with facts that we've been provided with from other sources, maybe even her own department. For example, in the same paragraph as the above, she says: "internet minutes now account[ing] for 25% of all local traffic carried on Eircom's network". Didn't her own department recently mention a 40% figure for internet traffic on Eircom's network? Or was it some other source? Either way, which is true? Or are they both true and twisted?

One other thing, in relation to a comment the Eircom representative is supposed to have made at the seminar (posted in another thread). The Eircom rep is supposed to have said that they gave $n worth of computers to schools last year. Which is a generous and admirable thing to do, and I'm delighted for the schools who received these computers. But what the hell has that got to do with our problems?

adam

LegacyUser

well we got that sorted out eircon wont bring in FRIACO unless it forced, weather or not you like the answer for the first time we have got some, now we just have to figure out were to go from here

LegacyUser

Just an issue I'd like to raise on the whole DSL flatrate being possibly the same price as a normal 56k flatrate. I'm not a computer expert by any means so correct me if I'm wrong - but doesn't DSL mean getting a load of stuff installed into your home at a possibly hefty fee in order to be able to actually use the service?? In that case then consider for example college students. Students move into a house in September and leave the following June - chances of them returning to the same house the following September are quite slim. Does this mean then that if the only flatrate available is DSL - that for each of 4 years a student will have to fork out to get the neccessary installed into their house so that they can get online to use the internet to help them in their studies??

Same applies to me really - I tend to change job and move house every 2 years or so. At the time when I still had IOL No Limits I asked them about changing residence and they said it was no problem to change the phone number on the acount - the worst that could happen was that a doubling up of payment might occur for one month but that would be it. Compare this to the hassle of having to get your DSL installed everywhere you go.

I'm not trying to put DSL flatrate down before anybody jumps down my neck again - I'm simply pointing out that it ties you down and is much more of a commitment than normal dial up flatrate. I'm scared of commitment *LOL*

LegacyUser

No they will put a splitter on your line you will probably pay a charge for this like £100 (that what they charge for a second line) apart from that its just a modem with you will probably get free with your service, they are cheap anyway (usb version) so if you have to pay for it you can always take it with you.

[This message has been edited by Gladiator (edited 30-08-2001).]

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gladiator:
well we got that sorted out eircon wont bring in FRIACO unless it forced, weather or not you like the answer for the first time we have got some, now we just have to figure out were to go from here</font>

What you say here is right on the ball.
If Eircom are not forced by a court order we are not going to see flat rate access.

We are not going to get ADSL unless it is economically viable (and Eircom will define this to suit themselves).

So as you rightly said what do we do now? ... to be honest I have no idea.

LegacyUser

well informing the public is very important and i can allready see the success or the seminar as it go allot of new members here and informed a fair few people. i guess the next thing would be to start lobbying eircom esat and the odtr. maybe a letter writing campainge, probably take things as they come.

one note maybe a march on the dail around election time might be an idea

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gladiator:
one note maybe a march on the dail around election time might be an idea.</font>

LOL, are you joking or are you serious ?

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gladiator:
they are cheap anyway (usb version) so if you have to pay for it you can always take it with you.</font>

afaik adsl modems are about about $300 and are often incompatible with competing dsl services.

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gladiator:


one note maybe a march on the dail around election time might be an idea

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Its a much overated medium. It would only do damage IMHO. If you pass by the Dail everyday you'll see every basket case in the land w/ a placard wanting something!! I think we could use much more effective means.

But....
A rally outside €ircom HQ might be an idea

We could paint the IrelandOffline Snail on the Facade like a Tyler Durden Project Mayhem Happy Face

"YES SIR, Mr Durden: "

[its a joke dont get worried- except if You're €ircom Hehehehe]

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80p.
SAVE CHIP !!

sceptre

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by dahamsta:
For example, in the same paragraph as the above, she says: "internet minutes now account[ing] for 25% of all local traffic carried on Eircom's network". Didn't her own department recently mention a 40% figure for internet traffic on Eircom's network</font>

Yup - can't remember which report but it did come from the ODTR.

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Acous:
afaik adsl modems are about about $300 and are often incompatible with competing dsl services.</font>

no ive seen usb modems cheaper, id expect that price for ethernet modems