eircoms legal obiligations??

LegacyUser · 25-07-2001 7:28pm #1

What are the eircoms legally stipulated obiligations??

My parents just bought a house in Roosky, Co.Leitrim so I have been entrusted w/ organising the phone line and ordering other utilities. Well anyway I called eircom to find out (not suprisingly) that ISDN is no go area in this part of the world. When I asked them them about the DACS carrier boxes and the possible effect it may have on the use of a normal 56k dial-up they stated that it is not the policy to use these but it all depends on the distance from the exchange. Thus I asked can you guarentee a minumum connection speed (of which is between 33kb and 52kb according to the eircom site) ??
The answer was no !!

I know Elana touched on this @ the meeting what is the legal requirment for eircom or other telcos in Ireland to make sure that your line can carry data @ a useable speed- -ie 56k dial-up and is there any recourse for this not being available??
If anyone knows please let me know.
If this is case re: Net Access in Leirtrim I dont think I'll be spending too many weekends overlooking Carrick-On-Shannon (No offence to this part of the world !!)

While I had eircom on the line....As a finishing Point to my conversation today I asked.....

80p:
Do have a release date for ADSL yet??
Eircom:
Is that the carrier boxes?
80p.:
No, A-D-S-L
Eircom:
Can you hang on a minute....

2 mins later....
Eircom:
Can you spell that for me please
80p:
No its an acronym for Asymmetric Digital Subscriber Line
(as the eircom operator busily jots this down)
Eircom:
Can you bear w/ me Sir.

3mins later (obviously after trawling the call centre to find some1 who knew what they were on about)

Eircom (back w/ prepared answer in hand-I could tell):
"Yes Sir, ADSL trials are ongoing and we expecting to launch it on a commercial basis sometime this Autumn"

AAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHH- Could some1 @ HQ @ least bother to send a quick little memo with some of the more important terms they may come across to these ppl. Its eircoms problem not these poor ppl answering the phones. Its a disgrace. Over the last month I have rceived 4 different answers fot the release date:
Sept 1, Late Sept, October and now sometime in the Autumn ( I suppose technically correct)
If anyone wants to call eircom and see the variance of answers you may receive I'd be interested to know how you get on.
Freephone "1901" and go into the sales services section.

80p.

www.80project.com

LegacyUser · 25-07-2001 8:09pm

Originally posted by 80project.com:
I know Elana touched on this @ the meeting what is the legal requirment for eircom or other telcos in Ireland to make sure that your line can carry data @ a useable speed- -ie 56k dial-up and is there any recourse for this not being available??
If anyone knows please let me know.

FWIW my own experience:

I am at the end of about a 1/4 mile pole mounted line. Probably about 10 phones come off it. I don't know if DACS is used in the exchange.
I have _never_ repeat _never_ got a 56k connection. It used to get 4x odd, but the failure rate was so high I forced the modem down to a max speed of 36k.
Dialin is to the Ballina IOL 1891 PoP.
Retrieving more than 20 emails between the hours of 8 am and 2 am fails with timeouts.
Browsing the web is a chore.
Some of this I put down to the line/DACS.

However at the weekend I can get better performance by dialing the IOL Dublin number instead of the 1891 number.

So the problem is more than the LL.
Its also the fibre between Ballina and Dublin.
The time I save while browsing makes up for the extra cost.

I still don't get 56k though

Bard · 25-07-2001 8:22pm

Originally posted by Neville:
I still don't get 56k though

A full 56Kbps is theoretically impossible on a standard analog phone line and modem setup. Speeds of 44-48Kbps would be good, - depending on the ISP in question.

I'm not sure what the theoretical top speed over analog phone lines of a standards compliant 56Kbps modem is - it's probably something around 49Kbps...

Bard

Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

LegacyUser · 25-07-2001 9:01pm

Originally posted by Bard:
Speeds of 44-48Kbps would be good, - depending on the ISP in question.

This makes me even more depressed, as it suggests that the problem lies entirely between the PoP and Dublin.

Any other reason for the discrepency between the Ballina and Dublin PoPs?

LegacyUser · 25-07-2001 9:14pm

From friends I have overseas, the typical real world top speed of a 56k modem appears to be 52kbps.

Where I live in Mayo, I can not even use a 56k modem. Well I can sometimes, but then the connection drops a few seconds later, and at most lasts 5 minutes (if I'm really lucky!).

I've been forced to downgrade my modem to v34, which is a much older standard. This way, I only get connection speeds of 24kbps and maybe 32kbps. I've had an Eircom engineer out, but he basically said that Eircom doesn't have any legal obligations, and therefore couldn't care less -- as long as I can hear the person at the other end of the phone line, Eircom won't bother to fix the problem.

LegacyUser · 25-07-2001 9:51pm

The most i ever got was 49,333 and from speaking to other foreign peeps it would seem that that is their highest aswell.

Altough i got a new modem (external..still sux though) and at first a was connecting at speeds of 112,000. Then i found out that the 112,000 was actually the speed my computer was communicating with my modem, and not the speed I was actually connected to the net to. Still it was nice to see it

LegacyUser · 25-07-2001 10:24pm

Im connected right now at 42666, the highest is 44??? so then one askes why bother having a 56K modem..

I have an external Modem and when its connected and the lower speeds i dont get kicked off when i get an incomming call, but when i get a high connection speed then everytime the phone rings i get booted....

I know its to do with the caller waiting but during the day i need it, with the old esat s/w it had an automatical disable for the caller waiting and then when u hung up the caller waiting was back, but now that is not the case if u set it to disable the caller waiting it stays disabled or else it doesnt disable it atall.

i was booted 7 times last night and ended up going to bed so frustrated at this, of course i ahve had the occasion to ring IOL about my connections but guess what it turns out to be a fault with Eircom...... you guessed it.. you ring Eircom and its nothing to do with them as you no longer use them for your phone calls.... do you know that you cannot make a reverse charge call if you are connected to esat? i found this out last week, i was amazed, the Eircom operator was rude and thought i was mad to think i could call the international operator.... sorry i know that is slightly off topic, but i tend to get carried away...

LegacyUser · 25-07-2001 10:58pm

I seem to have been lucky in this regard. In Dublin I get 52000 pretty much all of the time, and in Cork (10 miles from the city) I get no less than 49333, usually 52000.

And this is connecting with a dodgy linux winmodem kernel module for my Lucent modem.

It must be down to line quality. Some of the people I play online games with in the UK have spoken about line noise, and how it can be adjusted by the provider at the exchange.

I don't know how Eircom's set up works, but BT in the UK apparently could adjust to three levels, thw lowest would limit the data speed to very low as it was designed to improve voice communications, not data.

I don't suppose any Irish 2600 fans (if there any left!) would know the specifics?

LegacyUser · 26-07-2001 8:46am

ive seen 51k on ntl, (great guys)
but usualy its a 49k i connect at,
i actually used to connect the internet a 49k on esat, ive a very god line and i conenct to an under used exchange off peak, but on peak would be hell

LegacyUser · 26-07-2001 9:14am

I visited the regulator's web site to determine what obligations Eircom had in relation to the supply of service to individuals and I found the information reproduced below. To be honest, I am not very impressed by statements such as "in so far as the fixed operator considers it reasonable" but at least it does address the issue of data transmission ... does anyone have any comments.

3.2.1 Connection to the Fixed Public Telephone Network and Access to
the Fixed Public Telephone service
A fixed operator designated as having a universal service obligation
shall ensure that... any request, in so far as the fixed
operator considers it reasonable, by a person for connection to the
fixed public telephone network at a fixed location and access to fixed
public telephone service, is met. The Director may issue
directions to a designated fixed operator in relation to the
reasonableness of requests for connection to the network and access to
services covered by the designation, and the terms under which
connection and access may be provided. Such directions may also
require the operator to provide access where a refusal would be
unreasonable. Where a request for connection or access is turned down,
there is a right of appeal to the Director.

A connection to the public fixed telephone network must be capable of
allowing users to make and receive national and international calls,
enabling speech, facsimile and data communications. Such a connection
must be capable of transmitting data via modems at 2,400 bits per
second .

LegacyUser · 26-07-2001 9:27am

Just talked to someone who usually connects at 54kbps, and even 56kbps from time to time. I want his phone line.

dahamsta · 26-07-2001 9:48am

Originally posted by infomat:
A connection to the public fixed telephone network must be capable of allowing users to make and receive national and international calls, enabling speech, facsimile and data communications. Such a connection must be capable of transmitting data via modems at 2,400 bits persecond .

Yikes, that one must have been written a while back! That paragraph should really be updated.

adam

LegacyUser · 26-07-2001 1:08pm

Originally posted by dahamsta:
Yikes, that one must have been written a while back! That paragraph should really be updated.

Last time 2.4K was used was the 1970 i think

The regulations are what, a few years old?
It's not a mistake, eircom has no real data obligations. Full Stop.

LegacyUser · 26-07-2001 1:22pm

When eircom run a data test on your line they test it @ 2400 bps.

LegacyUser · 26-07-2001 2:10pm

What's the transmission rate of a jungle drum - does anybody know???

dahamsta · 26-07-2001 3:03pm

The Swedish guys who used pigeons for environmentally-friendly IP can do better than that for gods sake. Course, you don't get TCP with that...

adam

LegacyUser · 26-07-2001 3:05pm

Originally posted by dahamsta:
...Course, you don't get TCP with that...

adam

I thought that TCP stood for "The Carrier Pidgeon"

LegacyUser · 26-07-2001 8:19pm

Originally posted by infomat:

A connection to the public fixed telephone network must be capable of
allowing users to make and receive national and international calls,
enabling speech, facsimile and data communications. Such a connection
must be capable of transmitting data via modems at 2,400 bits per
second .

Is that 2.4k as in 56k Modem??
If so God Help Us. I'm still trying to find out myself. I spoke to eircom again today who said that they will fax me an info sheet. WOT you may ask?? Fax?? Why not tell me on the phone!! Needless to say no fax has arrived as of lunchtime!!

Must be one of those 2.4k Dublin Lines !!
Heh buts that our favourite Cowboy Outfit (re

ahamsta)for You.
My real aim would be to prove what the legal requirment is and then force a team of engineers to come to the house in Leitrim and upgrade the line. If anyone has more info please let me know.

80p.

www.80project.com

LegacyUser · 26-07-2001 8:40pm

Originally posted by 80project.com:
Is that 2.4k as in 56k Modem??

Yes.

LegacyUser · 26-07-2001 9:06pm

Originally posted by 80project.com:
I spoke to eircom again today who said that they will fax me an info sheet. WOT you may ask?? Fax?? Why not tell me on the phone!! Needless to say no fax has arrived as of lunchtime!!

My real aim would be to prove what the legal requirment is and then force a team of engineers to come to the house in Leitrim and upgrade the line. If anyone has more info please let me know.

80p.

I suggest that you visit www.odtr.ie and search for the following document .....
Designation of Universal Service Provider
Decision Notice D3/99 and then download it.

Then contact Eircom and refer them to Decision Notice D3/99 and mention that you are planning to refer the matter to the regulator. If they are unaware of this notice offer to supply a copy ... do not allow them to offer to provide you with specifications etc. this is a delaying tactic. Tell them that you are discussing Notice D3/99 and that you know its contents so all you require from them is a solution or a written explanation why such a solution is not available.

Also stress that they have failed to respond to previous complaints and that you have maintained a diary of all contacts with them (assuming that they have failed to respond) and this information will be submitted with your appeal to the regulator. Also when you speak to anyone insist on getting their name and let them know that it is being noted (after they have supplied it). If they refuse to discuss the matter on the phone send a registered letter ... if they fail to respond to this a copy of the receipt should be attached to your complaint to the regulator.

LegacyUser · 27-07-2001 12:59am

I'm not a technical expert just a bluffer

I know off topic but

1) Yes it possable to connect @ the full 56kb but you actually recive less information throughput from your connection !!! You recieve more connecting @ 44 or 48 ... Why ? Because of the way the information is transmitted in packets !!! and they way your system is configures ... most MTU/RWIN setting are set @ at the default for windows PPP dial-up (MTU+576 and RWIN=2144) ...

Now imagine informatin being like red bricks of a standard size and being recived more or less in a syncronised fassion ... if your connected @ 44-48 kb the bricks will be recived (fit into the wall) easily because @ 56kb there is bigger and more frequent gaps (cement space) in the infromation (wall) ... but this also depends on your ISP's configuration ...

2) Whom ever had the modem the was disconnecting ever 5 mins ... the problems is not your connection speed or the phone line ... it's your modem ... you need to update the FirmWare(TM) for your modem ... I've seen a cured this problem many times ... symtoms would be a modem that discconects @ a an approximate interval withn 5 mins of a connection repeatidly ... You'll need to find out who manufacture the card and download a frimware update from their site ... and dont go looking @ rockwell.com ... LOL ... they dont manufacture your modem ... they only make the chips ... take close inspection of your card or packaging as you modem properties may display Rockwell/askey 56kb modem but it's either made by etech or any one of dozens of other companins etc ... Rockwell only licence the technology like the old day of IBM ... Anyway what this will do is upgrade the HCF Modem enumerator for your modem as this problem only occours with internal modems that use an enumerator which purpose is to fakes and external com port or rather steer the direction of the information ...

Belive me it will work ...

3) You can stop you modem from disconnecting on call waithing or make it discconect if it not already by adding At commands to the extra setting for you modem ... see below ...

HCF AT Commands:

Call Waiting: HCF docs indicate the modem will disconnect on a call
waiting tone if you set s10 greater than or equal to 16. (Put s10=16 in
extra settings.)
As with all Rockwell/Conexant-based modems, the +MS= command is used to
select modulation, and limit connect speeds. The modem will respond to:
AT+MS=? with all supported options for the command; AT+MS? will return the
currently selected option.
The format is: +MS=<modulation>,<automode>,<min tx rate>,<max tx
rate>,<min rx rate>,<max rx rate>
If any parameters are omitted, commas must be used
You can disable 56k by selecting V.34 modulation:
AT+MS=V34
You can force V.90: AT+MS=V90,0 AT+MS=V90,0
You can force K56Flex: AT+MS=K56,0 AT+MS=K56,0
You can limit the connection rate by specifying lower & upper limits as
the 5th & 6th parameter:
AT+MS=V90,0,,,44000,52000 - specifies V.90 between 44k & 52k
[Note: The examples above have the automode parameter set to zero; if you
replace this with 1 or a comma, the modem will "prefer" the modulation
selected, but may use V.90 or K56Flex under some circumstances even if it
is not "preferred".]
Note: With early firmware/driver versions, as well as the .156 series, a
modem RESET is sent when you disconnect a DUNS call - this will cause the
last call data to be reset. See Prevent Modem Reset.
AT#UG - Provides information on the current/last connection

4) BTW ... I'm in the north west and can oly connect @ 16,800 with (ISP's)and 9,600 with (oceanfree) because of DACS box and a noisy line

... but when I first went online in our house ... I was wondering why my brother modem was working ok @ those speeds and mine was disconnecting ever 30 seconds to 5 mins considering they were the exact same modem and serial number ? LOL ... So I doug deep to find out this info and now you can bluff you way to making somebody else think your an expert when they mention it

You'll probably get the faster speed after ...

[This message has been edited by Pragmatica (edited 27-07-2001).]

sceptre · 27-07-2001 2:31am

Nice info Pragmatica, offtopic or not

eircoms legal obiligations??

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